GEM LNWR loco kits

[LN Lancs]

Sorry post duplicated:

 

Hello, I have been interested in the GEM LNWR kits since I first saw them advertised as a lad in the mid 70s. I believe I read then that they could be fitted to several triang chassis that were still common around the 70s. I'm still keen on them and ready to take the plunge with their body kits; my question is, are there any modern RTR chassis that could be married up to the body kits and has anyone tried it? In particular I'm interested in the 0-6-0 Cauliflower class and the Watford (coal) tank.

 

many thanks for any advice,

Regards,

Loyal North Lancs

[hayfield]

Sorry post duplicated

I read your earlier post about the 2 GEM kits and as I replied there was an error, looks like the wrong one was deleted.

 

The original GEM Cauliflower was designed to fit the GEM cast J83 chassis, this chassis would be easy to make other than it was designed to use the K's mk2 motor, this is out of production but was not very good anyway. The wheel base of the J83 is rhe same as the Hornby 0-6-0T but it may be too big as the Cauliflower has a small boiled.

 

I have just brought a GEM Precurser loco and chassis, the loco body's castings are very crisp. However the new etched chassis for this kit whilst highly detailed, looks a bit harder than the normal etched chassis. I do not know how hard the Cauliflower chassis is to build.

 

Is the coal tank you reffered to the 0-6-2T (Watford tank)? If so again it was was designed to fit the GEM cast J83 chassis, but now has a new etched chassis. I have offered up3 different Margate type chassis, none of which looks like they would fit too well as the side tanks may not be tall enough to clear the motor.

 

Another option is the NuCast Webb 0-6-2T which is a bit larger, I think their chassis are quite basic (that's if they are like the K's ones) so may be easier to build. You might even find (as I have) one of the K's kits on Ebay which could even be ready made.

 

On the other hand someone on the Web may be able to build a chassis for you !

 

Now the Prince of Wales class was designed to fit the Hornby B12 chassis, the George the V the Hornby L1 chassis as was the Precurser tank (and I guess the tender version)

 

The North British Scot, the Deeley, the Johnson class 3 and the Midland compound again were designed to fit the Hornby L1 chassis.

 

Looking at my new GEM kit the footplate still seems the same design as the original GEM version. So one of these other kits might be a better starting place

 

Hopes this helps,

 

Ps go to edit and re-enter your question.

[LN Lancs]

John,

many thanks for all your advice, including editing the original post! I'll take your advice and go for a Prince of Wales married to a B12 chassis. This will be my first ever kit so I'm excited, and apprehensive, at the same time but the Prince of Wales looks a fine loco and not too expensive so, with care and a B12 chassis I should, I hope, be able to do a reasonable job of it.

 

thanks again for your advice,

 

regards

Loyal North lancs

[hayfield]

John,

many thanks for all your advice, including editing the original post! I'll take your advice and go for a Prince of Wales married to a B12 chassis. This will be my first ever kit so I'm excited, and apprehensive, at the same time but the Prince of Wales looks a fine loco and not too expensive so, with care and a B12 chassis I should, I hope, be able to do a reasonable job of it.

 

thanks again for your advice,

 

regards

Loyal North lancs

Loyal North lancs

 

The chap who sells the GEM kits is very approachable and helpfull (Very satisfied customer) have a chat with him. The L1 chassis needed I think is the older version (there may not be a newer version!) GEM did do a replacement chassis for the L1 and these do come up on Ebay as do the Hornby L1 chassis, it might be cheaper buying a loco snd reselling the body and tender back on Ebay.

 

Markits sell the Romford replacement axles so you can fit their wheels which would be a great improvement if you use finer scale wheels.

 

The Gem kits fit together very well, take your time fitting the chassis to the footplate and when fitting the cab/firebox, boiler etc check the clearencer around the motor. The LNWR livery can be painted with a couple of spray cans from Halfords, but finish off with a satin varnish. Good luck and keep us informed.

[LN Lancs]

Loyal North lancs

 

The chap who sells the GEM kits is very approachable and helpfull (Very satisfied customer) have a chat with him. The L1 chassis needed I think is the older version (there may not be a newer version!) GEM did do a replacement chassis for the L1 and these do come up on Ebay as do the Hornby L1 chassis, it might be cheaper buying a loco snd reselling the body and tender back on Ebay.

 

Markits sell the Romford replacement axles so you can fit their wheels which would be a great improvement if you use finer scale wheels.

 

The Gem kits fit together very well, take your time fitting the chassis to the footplate and when fitting the cab/firebox, boiler etc check the clearencer around the motor. The LNWR livery can be painted with a couple of spray cans from Halfords, but finish off with a satin varnish. Good luck and keep us informed.

 

 

John,

many thanks for this, your advice has been much appreciated and has given me the impetus to get cracking. I'll keep you informed of progress.

 

regards,

[LNWR18901910]

What about the Prince of Wales and 19in Express Goods 4-6-0s? It's the Whale 19in Express Goods Class I'm interested in.

[Norton961]

Brassmasters did the 19” Goods a long time ago ( it was the 3rd loco kit we did!) Technically these have been deleted, but if you email Brassmasters they do the odd run if enough people ask.its all etched brass so a bit more of a challenge than a white metal kit. Jol Wilkinson who has London Road layout would be a good person to discuss with.

[LNWR18901910]

Brassmasters did the 19” Goods a long time ago ( it was the 3rd loco kit we did!) Technically these have been deleted, but if you email Brassmasters they do the odd run if enough people ask.its all etched brass so a bit more of a challenge than a white metal kit. Jol Wilkinson who has London Road layout would be a good person to discuss with.

Perhaps I should. Of course, I could always make one from a Hornby B12 with some minor (or major) modifications.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Perhaps I should. Of course, I could always make one from a Hornby B12 with some minor (or major) modifications.

GEM kits pop up on ebay regularly so that could be your easiest option.

 

The Brassmasters kit produces a far superior model in my view (based on building LNWR Precursors from both suppliers over time) and I have an Experiment kit in the to do pile. They aren't as simple as a GEM kit, so may be more than you would want to take on.

 

Mind you I can't contemplate cutting, shutting, filing and filling a RTR plastic model. That is the sort of effort that made me gave up with w/m kits, the work required to get round boilers, crisp edges on cab sheets, roofs, boiler bands, etc. As I model in P4, the clearances in w/m kits also often create problems that etched kits don't  There is no way I could get this sort of result from a GEM kit, although others might be able to do so:

 

[hayfield]

The thing with the latest GEM kits is the ease of building the whitemetal body, with the modern and quite complicated brass chassis that are now supplied. The issue with whitemetal is sometimes the weight involved with the larger bodies and as said by Jol things like footplates and cab sides etc being so thick.

 

Personally I have always admired the composite arrangement, where the appropriate material is used for each component, best of all worlds approach

[Jol Wilkinson]

The thing with the latest GEM kits is the ease of building the whitemetal body, with the modern and quite complicated brass chassis that are now supplied. The issue with whitemetal is sometimes the weight involved with the larger bodies and as said by Jol things like footplates and cab sides etc being so thick.

 

Personally I have always admired the composite arrangement, where the appropriate material is used for each component, best of all worlds approach

I often found the problems with large w/m casting suffering from shrinkage distortion an annoyance. Particularly so where boilers, usually cast in two halves, end up significantly not circular. The more expensive 4mm composite kits use resin boilers, because these don't suffer from significant, if any, shrinkage.

 

Filling and filing w/m boilers, removing poorly reproduced and excessively thick boiler bands, disguising join lines, etc. all became too much, especially taking into account the lack of "crispness" and occasional poor fit of other parts. So the apparent ease of having to assemble just a few parts, was offset by the effort to get them as good as I wanted. It is some time since I built a w/m kit (other than a wagon) so things may have improved, although w/m casting technology has pretty much remained the same for fifty years.

[hayfield]

I often found the problems with large w/m casting suffering from shrinkage distortion an annoyance. Particularly so where boilers, usually cast in two halves, end up significantly not circular. The more expensive 4mm composite kits use resin boilers, because these don't suffer from significant, if any, shrinkage.

 

Filling and filing w/m boilers, removing poorly reproduced and excessively thick boiler bands, disguising join lines, etc. all became too much, especially taking into account the lack of "crispness" and occasional poor fit of other parts. So the apparent ease of having to assemble just a few parts, was offset by the effort to get them as good as I wanted. It is some time since I built a w/m kit (other than a wagon) so things may have improved, although w/m casting technology has pretty much remained the same for fifty years.

 

 

Jol

 

You have made some very good points here, as for shrinkage of whitemetal, I thought masters were made larger to address this issue. As for the GEM kits andalso Southeastern Finecast, I have found the new castings of better quality than the original, both in the quality of the castings and materials used. As far as the latter is concerned perhaps the material has improved, certainly the castings from the Bedford company was better than those I encountered from North Wales and SEF seems better than the Wills kits I have built

 

The answer may be that the kits which have been revised have improved on their forerunners, I guess though in certain aspects etched kits will have the advantage. Don't forget there have been some stinkers in the etched kit range  

[Jeff Smith]

This is an interesting discussion. I have built etched, w/m and polystyrene locos; all have positive and negative aspects depending on quality of the kit parts, chassis options, etc. As the OP is new to kit building he might want to explore the current 3D printed bodies, many of which come with chassis that would be relatively easy to complete in OO using self-quartering wheels (Romford type), brass top hat bearings, etched coupling rods and a DS10 or similar motor and simple single-stage gearbox. A search on the Shapeways website may pull up locos that the OP is interested in.

 

My 3D thread below although a complex experiment in P4 conversion may give the OP some ideas.

[Norton961]

There is currently a Brassmasters 19” Goods kit on eBay.

 

David

[LNWR18901910]

There is currently a Brassmasters 19” Goods kit on eBay.

 

David

True, but in above-all honesty, I've never worked with Brassmasters or any brass metal kits before. I would say or think the old GEM kit is worth trying and starting.

[hayfield]

Do make sure its one of the newer(in a plastic box) versions as the quality of the casting material is superior and perhaps the castings may be better

[LNWR18901910]

I recently ordered the GEM LNWR George the Fifth kit and one thing still boggles me - it does say in the instructions to use the Triang-Hornby L1 chassis but also the GEM L1 Chassis. Am I using the right chassis for it? Please tell me.

[Matti8]

33 minutes ago, LNWR18901910 said:

I recently ordered the GEM LNWR George the Fifth kit and one thing still boggles me - it does say in the instructions to use the Triang-Hornby L1 chassis but also the GEM L1 Chassis. Am I using the right chassis for it? Please tell me.

I believe that both can be used just the same. I have seen them used on many other GEM kits such as the NBR Glen.

 

Matti

Edited September 4, 2020 by Matti8

[Steamport Southport]

29 minutes ago, LNWR18901910 said:

I recently ordered the GEM LNWR George the Fifth kit and one thing still boggles me - it does say in the instructions to use the Triang-Hornby L1 chassis but also the GEM L1 Chassis. Am I using the right chassis for it? Please tell me.

 

That was the chassis recommended for it when it first came out as they were readily available.

 

When the Triang L1 (later converted to a 2P) was discontinued in the very early 1970s then GEM released their own whitemetal version. That was then replaced by the far superior etched chassis.

 

Worth considering the chassis you are using is going to be over fifty years old.

 

 

Jason

[LNWR18901910]

18 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

That was the chassis recommended for it when it first came out as they were readily available.

 

When the Triang L1 (later converted to a 2P) was discontinued in the very early 1970s then GEM released their own whitemetal version. That was then replaced by the far superior etched chassis.

 

Worth considering the chassis you are using is going to be over fifty years old.

 

 

Jason

I suppose so. I just hope the chassis can run well on my layout. Plus, I hope it fits well onto the body, however, chances are some alterations would be required as a good loco-drive 00 Gauge 4-4-0 chassis can be hard to find. What is your batting average?

[hayfield]

 

On 04/09/2020 at 02:14, LNWR18901910 said:

I recently ordered the GEM LNWR George the Fifth kit and one thing still boggles me - it does say in the instructions to use the Triang-Hornby L1 chassis but also the GEM L1 Chassis. Am I using the right chassis for it? Please tell me.

 

11 hours ago, LNWR18901910 said:

I suppose so. I just hope the chassis can run well on my layout. Plus, I hope it fits well onto the body, however, chances are some alterations would be required as a good loco-drive 00 Gauge 4-4-0 chassis can be hard to find. What is your batting average?

 

 

Unless you have ordered a second hand or extremely old (stock) kit, I assume you have ordered it from Lytchett Manor models. Whilst not having a GEM kit from them I bought a 2-4-2T loco kit from the Bedford company (previous owners) Firstly the etched chassis are excellent and I believe available separately. Secondly I found both the materials used and quality of casting a vast improvement from the earlier GEM kits. 

 

The running quality of the chassis will be down to the builder and parts (wheels, motor & gears) used

[LNWR18901910]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

 

 

 

Unless you have ordered a second hand or extremely old (stock) kit, I assume you have ordered it from Lytchett Manor models. Whilst not having a GEM kit from them I bought a 2-4-2T loco kit from the Bedford company (previous owners) Firstly the etched chassis are excellent and I believe available separately. Secondly I found both the materials used and quality of casting a vast improvement from the earlier GEM kits. 

 

The running quality of the chassis will be down to the builder and parts (wheels, motor & gears) used

Actually, I bought it off E-Bay and it was in good working on condition as described. However, both the kit and the chassis have not arrived yet, not even today. That chassis was the Triang L1 Chassis.

[Steamport Southport]

15 hours ago, LNWR18901910 said:

I suppose so. I just hope the chassis can run well on my layout. Plus, I hope it fits well onto the body, however, chances are some alterations would be required as a good loco-drive 00 Gauge 4-4-0 chassis can be hard to find. What is your batting average?

 

In what regards?

 

With Triang chassis? I don't use them. But I don't think you will need much work to attach the chassis to the loco as the kits were designed to fit them. You can always replace it at a later date if you do feel it's not good enough.

 

With GEM kits? Got a few now. They really are simple to build. I would recommend them to a beginner kit builder. The first kit I built when returning to the hobby was the Cambrian/GWR 2-4-0T. An absolute delight to build.

 

They lack a bit of detail I suppose. But that's the era they came from. The one thing you might want to do is add some minor details. What does stand out is the lack of rivets. I'm planning on adding some of the Archers type.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited September 5, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

In what regards?

 

With Triang chassis? I don't use them. But I don't think you will need much work to attach the chassis to the loco as the kits were designed to fit them. You can always replace it at a later date if you do feel it's not good enough.

 

With GEM kits? Got a few now. They really are simple to build. I would recommend them to a beginner kit builder. The first kit I built when returning to the hobby was the Cambrian/GWR 2-4-0T. An absolute delight to build.

 

They lack a bit of detail I suppose. But that's the era they came from. The one thing you might want to do is add some minor details. What does stand out is the lack of rivets. I'm planning on adding some of the Archers type.

 

 

 

Jason

 

 

Jason

 

I think you have got it spot on. the newer kits in a plastic box are a bit better cast and a better quality is used. As you say the RTR chassis are bomb proof if a little coarse. The GEM replacements are better as you would use Romford/Markit wheels and hopefully a 5 pole motor. The etched chassis in my opinion is the best option if not the hardest out of the 3 options. As you say either of the latter 2 upgrades can be used at a later date
 

[Steamport Southport]

When I got the first of my Cambrian 2-4-0Ts they were sold as a complete package from Mainly Trains. The kit with the MT chassis and Romford wheels, DS10 (or similar) motor, etc. There was a build of it in Model Rail at the same time. Possibly by Dibber. Then I picked up a couple more at bargain prices at an exhibition.

 

I've got a LNWR 2-4-2T and LNER J83 in the queue, As well as a couple of the older kits. MR 3P and 4P 4-4-0s and a GWR 56XX.

 

Keep an eye on the bargains. They do turn up. Unfortunately they never involve Midlothian or Cardean....

 

 

Jason