theflyingspanner Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 just a question really is there a decoder that will do the kadee shuffle other than the loksound and the zimo whati mean is a none sound decoder Can anyone recommend a decoder that will do it please Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevora Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 just a question really is there a decoder that will do the kadee shuffle other than the loksound and the zimo whati mean is a none sound decoder Can anyone recommend a decoder that will do it please Zimo & esu do none sound decoder that will do the shuffle trevora Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2015 Lenz decoders are non-sound and also have this facility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Lenz (think just Silver and Gold), Zimo, ESU, CT-Elektronik all have versions of the shuffle in their non-sound decoders. CT has the most flexibility in controlling movement, and also allows independent control of the coupling if required. Though I'd go for Zimo or ESU in 4mm scale models. Assume you need a spare output on the decoder to setup the movement (can be a virtual output if the decoder firmware has more outputs than the actual hardware, which is often the case). - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 This is being implemented on all Legomanbiffo & Locoman Sound decoders from January onwards, the 8F & King have it as standard and the Class 27 is the first to have this activated on the modern image range. Charlie 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cnw6847 Posted December 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 2, 2015 why can't you stop the train reverse very very slightly to release tension to uncouple then move forward again? Thats what I've always done on both DC and DCC 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigal10 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Doh! Because some people, (and I'm one of them) just like to play about with automated things, and have a function button do it for you! Cheers, Alan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 What if you don't use magnets to uncouple your Kadees?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Use servos or micro motors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lee Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 What if you don't use magnets to uncouple your Kadees?? It means you can cut off the silvery, dangly bit that the magnets use; this makes the couplings less noticable. I find that an (unused) toothpick is quite a good thing to uncouple them with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The function has been on the V4 decoders since day one and used by some of the well know suppliers on their projects for quite a long time now. Certainly out for a long time on all the steam and diesel projects from SWD according to them.Here is a video of servo operated Kadees on a Brush 2 There are micro motors as well out there that do similar and work well and worth looking at. The supplied kit of parts is well thought through and easy enough for most people to deal with.http://www.precimodels.com/en/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 What if you don't use magnets to uncouple your Kadees?? Use servos or micro motors. What if you've cut all of your trip pins off...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 If you use the servos or the micro motors it does not matter as the trip pins are not used. Don't forget the function on the V4 can be used on tension lock couplers as well like those on Hornby and Bachmann. Whilst the function is enabled on some decoders delivered the settings may not be correct for each loco it is fitted to and possibly too abrupt in that the loco when it reverses to spring the coupling will push the stock backwards as well. The settings are a function of time in milliseconds and not distance as some people think. and the time setting for the pull forward bit of the operation has to be longer than the reverse or push part. If it is not, the coupling on the loco wont escape the clutches of the coupling on the stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 It means you can cut off the silvery, dangly bit that the magnets use; this makes the couplings less noticable. I find that an (unused) toothpick is quite a good thing to uncouple them with. I tend to leave the droppers on, as I might want to use under-track magnets at some time, or on another layout, & they do give an 'impression' of air lines as well. As kadees are also fairly close to looking like the real thing, why would I want to make them less noticable?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lee Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) I tend to leave the droppers on, as I might want to use under-track magnets at some time, or on another layout, & they do give an 'impression' of air lines as well. As kadees are also fairly close to looking like the real thing, why would I want to make them less noticable?? One of my layouts is a SR branch line set in 1933, and the smaller one is an LBSCR branch line terminus, about 1900, so most of the prototype couplings would be 3-link/instanter etc. As I will not be installing magnets, it is worthwhile for me to get rid of the droppers. On the other hand, particularly if your stock is a bit later or less rural, then there may well be no point at all for you clip the droppers off. Believe me, I don't think that it should be compulsory. Edited December 4, 2015 by Richard Lee 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Ah, yes - if they aren't prototypical for the stock they're fitted to; yes then I understand making them a bit less obvious if possible. I was thinking in terms of my US outline stuff. It's really rather a good job that nothing in this hobby is compulsory, really, isn't it!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2015 Nigelcliffe, on 02 Dec 2015 - 22:39, said: Lenz (think just Silver and Gold), Zimo, ESU, CT-Elektronik all have versions of the shuffle in their non-sound decoders. - Nigel The Lenz Standard+ also has this facility - called "Support for automatic uncoupling control". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Sorry to drag this topic up again, but how do get this to work on a Loksound version 4 decoder. I've found the section in the manual for setting the speed, push and pull back settings with CV's 246,247 and 248, but how do i attach this to the uncoupling sound function button on F11. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 hour ago, tender said: Sorry to drag this topic up again, but how do get this to work on a Loksound version 4 decoder. I've found the section in the manual for setting the speed, push and pull back settings with CV's 246,247 and 248, but how do i attach this to the uncoupling sound function button on F11. Very roughly, these steps: 1 - function mapping. Need to add a fictional output to be activated on key F11. (Fictional because you've not actually attached a coupling mechanism to it, but needs to be one which isn't attached to any lighting etc.) 2 - change the behaviour of that fictional output to "uncoupling". If doing it manually, some time with manual to work out a lot of CV changes. I'd do it with either DecoderPro (JMRI), or with a LokProgrammer. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Thanks Nigel, i guessed it wasn't straightforward as it wasn't obvious in the manual, unlike the Zimo decoder where theres a CV to just attach the shuffle to a Function button. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, tender said: Thanks Nigel, i guessed it wasn't straightforward as it wasn't obvious in the manual, unlike the Zimo decoder where theres a CV to just attach the shuffle to a Function button. It is conceptually identical to Zimo. With Zimo you have to map an output to a function key (often a fictional output with no device attached), and then set the behaviour of the output to uncoupling. The list of CV changes is more, because of ESU's complex function mapping, and the Indexed CV's to extend the number of CVs available. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Because I know roughly how, here's my starter set of changes, not tested on a decoder. I'm making an assumption that row-40 of the function mapping table hasn't been used by the sound project creator, and nothing is wired to output AUX10 on the decoder. They might have been used, I can't tell that, though its a low chance. Step 1: Turn on the relevant index CV's for Row40 of Function Table CV31= 16 CV32 = 4 Step 2: Row 40 of Function Table is triggered by FnKey F11 (whilst index CV32=4) CV372=4 Step 3: Output Aux10 is active on Row 40 of Function Table (whilst index CV32=4) CV379=8 Step 4: Set index back to zero so it won't bite you on a future date. CV32 = 0 Step 5: Select the Mode of AUX10 to be of type "uncoupler" (whilst index CV32=0) CV347 = 28 Index CV32 is very important. The CVs (347, 372, 379) above each set five different things depending on the value of the index CV32. Hence quoting them with an index CV32 value. For CV's from CV256 upwards on an ESU V4 or V5 decoder, if you fail to set the index CV, it can (will) lead to unexpected changes ! JMRI/DecoderPro looks after the index CV stuff extremely well. The ESU V4/V5 decoders are supported to a very high standard in JMRI, the chap who keeps them up to date has regular contact with ESU in Germany. I worked out the above values in JMRI, then cross-checked that I was copying sensible CV's with the ESU paper manual. - Nigel 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Ok, I have the Kadee Shuffle working on my Loksound V4 with the sound turned off. Under Train Controller the train pulls into the station and does a final crawl up to an IR sensor where the train stops. After a few seconds the kadee shuffle is initiated and the loco pushes back 10mm placing the kadee over the magnet and then forward 15mm leaving the coaches behind. Works perfectly ever time. Problem is when the sound is switched on. The train pulls up to the IR sensor and stops as usual but then the push back is randomly between 0-7mm so uncoupling is very hit and miss, mostly miss. The pull forward doesn't seem to be effected. Have I missed something? Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 I'm now into guesswork. First, just to check its not software. Do you get the same "random" reverse with sound on if driving from a throttle ? Assuming its not a software issue, my guess is the sound slot also attached to F11 (coupling sound) is affecting the movement. A way to test this would be to move to a different function key, not currently associated with a sound. Or, find the sound slot in the function table mapping and temporarily disable it to find out what happens. I can give you a CV changes for a different function key on Row40, if you say which function key is available. But, finding the sound slot for uncoupler/F11 will be either guesswork (if we're luckly, we hit it with the guess, check with a few reads), or you need to read several dozen CV's to find it. If the guess doesn't work, the reading option is possible manually, but would drive most to madness, so a computer interface is needed, either from your DCC system/programming bench to JMRI/DecoderPro, or the LokProgrammer hardware and software. Nigel 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Thanks Nigel, I have an old LokProgrammer somewhere so will fire it up, have a poke around and report back. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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