Kiwi_Ed Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Hello all, A question I've been playing around with for a while now: Do I really need alignment dowels for my layout? After years of armchair modelling I am really determinant to start my layout this winter. It will be a modular N-gauge industrial layout spread out over two 1ft x 4ft baseboards with two 1ft x 4ft fiddle yards on either side in a U shape to fit my modelling room. I have designed the layout in such a way that the fiddle yard can be place either at the front of the layout for operation at home or at the back (think upside-down U) when I am operating at an exhibition. The fiddle yards will double up as stock box. Anyway to make a long story short: I have been looking at getting alignment dowels and perhaps some toggle catches to join the baseboards. One of my disadvantages is that I am in Ireland, so anything heavier than a couple of fluffy feathers is costing a small fortune in postage. I had found this ad on Ebay which seems reasonably priced and postage isn't that bad for something fairly heavy. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172010811964?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT I have figured out that if I ordered everything I need (would like) it would cost me about €30 (£21.50). Not too bad, but this would also buy me about two wagons and being a modeller on a budget I know that every cent paid (or penny if you prefer) is gone! And I also need wagons... Therefore my question: Do I really need alignment dowels for my layout? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 It's probably a function of how often you have to erect and dismantle the layout, how much fiddling with alignment you're prepared to do each time and how tolerant your stock and operational methods are to minor rail misalignments. Long ago I was involved with an 0 gauge test track with three concentric ovals of track (2x coarse scale and 1 Peco). There were 20 odd boards involved but we usually had at least half a dozen people to put the thing up. All track alignment was done by eye and fingernail, slacking off the board connection bolts and walloping the boards into alignment by hand. Running was ultra-reliable for the several years I was involved. The main mover and shaker of the group had a large, finescale (in 1980 Peco track and Jackson wheels were finescale in 0 ) which used similar board alignment techniques. OTOH I doubt if we'd have got away with the same tactics in 2FS, for example. N might be OK though, especially if you're using older wheel standards and Code 80. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Therefore my question: Do I really need alignment dowels for my layout? Yes and no, BUT money well spent imho. The first three layouts I built were simply held together with coach bolts and lined up by eye. It worked, admittedly, but was very prone to misalignment. I then bought exactly the same kind of dowels you've shown in the ebay listing. A doddle to fit and the alignment is now guaranteed... first time every time. I still use coach bolts AND toggle catches (belt AND braces approach)... with 100mm coach bolts, you can release the toggle catches and not run the risk of one of the baseboards crashing to the floor... the coach bolts will still hold it, even when the wingnut is 99% undone. The kit you've shown comes with the correct drill bit (7mm from memory?) - use a dab of PVA on the brass dowels and insert them using your fingers with a slight twisting motion. Hammer them home lightly, checking that they're entering the pre-drilled hole correctly and not at an angle. I wouldn't build another layout without them, that's for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 You could use wooden dowels, glued into one board, and a good fit in the other. Then use coach bolts to hold them together. They wouldn't be so hard wearing, but it depends how often you take the layout apart. You could also attach a ledge to the bottom of one board that the other rests on, to take care of vertical alignment, then set the horizontal alignment by eye, and fix with coach bolts. Presumably wooden dowelling and coach bolts can be bought locally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted December 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2015 I'd certainly recommend using some form of alignment dowels, especially on a layout which, from the sound of it, will be going to exhibitions at least occasionally. They will save you time each and every time you set the layout up and they should aid reliable running. You can have all the wagons in the world, but if they derail across your board joins all the time, your enjoyment will be impaired! Money spent on good underpinnings (baseboards and fittings) is money very well spent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theduke71000 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Hello all, A question I've been playing around with for a while now: Do I really need alignment dowels for my layout? After years of armchair modelling I am really determinant to start my layout this winter. It will be a modular N-gauge industrial layout spread out over two 1ft x 4ft baseboards with two 1ft x 4ft fiddle yards on either side in a U shape to fit my modelling room. I have designed the layout in such a way that the fiddle yard can be place either at the front of the layout for operation at home or at the back (think upside-down U) when I am operating at an exhibition. The fiddle yards will double up as stock box. Anyway to make a long story short: I have been looking at getting alignment dowels and perhaps some toggle catches to join the baseboards. One of my disadvantages is that I am in Ireland, so anything heavier than a couple of fluffy feathers is costing a small fortune in postage. I had found this ad on Ebay which seems reasonably priced and postage isn't that bad for something fairly heavy. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172010811964?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT I have figured out that if I ordered everything I need (would like) it would cost me about €30 (£21.50). Not too bad, but this would also buy me about two wagons and being a modeller on a budget I know that every cent paid (or penny if you prefer) is gone! And I also need wagons... Therefore my question: Do I really need alignment dowels for my layout? Yes for the simple reason that if you are building a multi-baseboard layout you obviously intend to dismantle/re-erect this layout on occasion. Steel "Pattern makers aligning dowels" are available from the track specialists. Using these products in to normal carriage bolts and wingnuts ensures your baseboards go together precisely and simple every time. No messing around, and NO movement to derail trains latter because the bolts and wingnuts cannot guarantee a precise and long lasting hold !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Ed Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 Hello all, Thanks a lot for your replies. Your opinions more or less coincide with my own: you can make a layout without alignment dowels but it will make life a lot easier (and more pleasant) if you do use them.. I was thinking about using wooden dowels, but as don't have space for a permanent layout I would be setting it up and breaking it down regularly. My worry with wooden dowels is that they might break. Having said that: they would be a lot cheaper... Anybody any thoughts on this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted December 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2015 Firmly securing the track at the baseboard ends, and protecting it during transportation is much more important than what the dowels are made from. Alignment by eye and G clamps is perfectly achievable with N Gauge track - you'd be surprised at just how rough track can be and not cause derailments. That said, the use of dowels (and then G Clamps or nuts'n'bolts) makes setting up a layout a lot quicker. I use a club layout that uses three wooden alignment dowels at the end of each board (approx 8mm diameter). It's put up and taken down once a month for several years without the dowels snapping. The bigger problem has been the track getting knocked as it initially wasn't very securely fitted to the ends of the baseboards. Happy modelling. Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Ed Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 Hi Steven, That's reassuring... A pack of wooden dowels (10mm) and some bolts and wing nuts is going to cost me less than half what the other dowels and toggle catches would cost me (and I could buy a wagon for the other half ). Thanks! Edwin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExPatBrit Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Living in the US, ironically the last bastion of the Imperial system of measurement, these sizes will need converting to equivalent metric sizes that you can get over there. This is probably a very old idea, but I haven't seen it mentioned in a while. Anyway, our local hardware store sells 2' lengths of 1/2" od, 3/8" id aluminium tube, (could be steel, like electrical conduit). I cut 2 lengths which are slightly shorter than the combined thickness of the framing woodwork on the baseboards. I drill two 1/2 diameter hole through both sets of the framework, one each end, while the framework is clamped up in alignment. If you have access to metal cutting drills, they will cut a tight hole in wood, unlike wood drills which cut slightly big in wood, (at least mine did). Now the 1/2" tube, (the dowels), will be tight in both framework halves and a 3/8" bolt can pass through these tubes/dowels, with a nut, for clamping the framework together. Use fender washers between the bolts/nuts and the framework so you don't squash the wood and jobs done, with precision, pretty cheaply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I've used metal alignment dowels on my last few layouts & would not be without them. This allows me to use slightly oversized holes with extra washers on them..because I have grown to hate correct sized holes through which I have to screw the bolts. & if you go for flat-bottomed dowels such as C&L, don't do what I did & squeeze-fit them into the holes with a hammer. I left myself with a little repair work to my boards . Use a G-Clamp instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 If you are worried about wooden dowels breaking, use shortened 6-inch nails (with a rounded nose of course) instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 The thing to remember is that alignment dowels cost only a fraction of the price of new rolling stock but are money well spent as they will help ensure that rolling stock runs smoothly and satisfyingly every time. Don't scupper the ship over a happuth o' tar! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Alignment dowels look simple to apply, but I guess no room for adjustment, if needed. Some folk have used hinges with removable pins, which can be bought in the local diy sheds, but the dowels will be easier to align, I guess, and much cheaper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I think it may also depend on the type of baseboard construction. I'm not entirely convinced by blanket adoption of alignment dowels because the critical point in alignment is the rail rather than the boards. If your baseboard top, risers, the cork, or underlay etc. and track is all rigidly attached to the framework the bolt goes through and unlikely to ever move: then its fine and jolly reliable. If there is any chance [or opportunity] for movement or misalignment in any of those layers between bolt and rail head then you're just as good with coach bolts and by-eye alignment. I used them in the past but found no extra advantage at all over bolts and wing nuts. I probably pay more attention to the baseboard top and alignments where rails cross than I do to the sub frame. Fitting small screws close to the joins at the sleeper ends at the baseboard joins so I can slightly adjust should anything shift over time [it will!]. Each to his own! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Therefore my question: Do I really need alignment dowels for my layout? My answer is maybe not. On my exhibition layout I used four hinges at each baseboard join. Looking at each end one half of each hinge is fixed to each corner, inset into the top and bottom surfaces so that the rolled bit where the pin goes lines up with the same part on the adjacent board. I remove the hinge pins and replaced them with "L" shaped lengths of silver steel. With the four pins pushed into place the baseboards are locked together securely and are accurately aligned both vertically and horizontally. When all four "L"s are pulled out the boards can be separated. The best way to set these up is to make the baseboard end beams first as matching pairs, install the hinges and then build the ends into the baseboards. You do need to be able to work accurately with wood to make these work so this solution may not be for everyone. I should add that this is not my idea - it was in an article in an early MRJ written by Barry Norman. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewlisle Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I have just answered a similar question in 'Modelling Questions, Help & Tips' in Comment No. 13. On my DCC controlled layout, I do not use alignment dowels but hinges with removable hinge pins & short removable sections of track. I have used this system for over 35 years & it hasn't let me down yet. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Ed Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 Hello everybody, Thanks a lot for your thoughts and ideas.. I was nearly persuaded not to use alignment dowels when I went shopping for some plasticard on this website: stationroadbaseboards.co.uk where they were selling alignment dowels for £0.50 a set. As I really only needed two to join two baseboards (I can definitely do without to join the fiddle yards as I am using cassettes on those, so alignment has nothing to do with how the boards are joined) I figured I couldn't go wrong for that price.. Postage was being spent on other things I was buying at the shop and was very reasonable to Ireland. As my layout is planned to grow after more or less completing these two baseboards I might re-consider having gained some experience. Thanks again and happy modelling! Edwin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neil Posted December 12, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 12, 2015 I'm in agreement with number six. I don't and wouldn't use alignment dowels, preferring loose fitting bolts, wingnuts and washers. With the likelihood of movement in timber baseboards I believe that building in some adjustment is better than locking the boards together at a point or points at some distance from the rail head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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