DJH Piercy B1 Dibatag

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Hello David,

OK the use of the jigs and rods makes sense now. However with a kit in this price range you would expect that the bearings supplied would match the holes in the frames,or better still be slightly larger to allow the holes to be reamed.

With the centre holes in the rods being larger does the kit come with a larger crank pin bush? What is the purpose of this larger hole?

 

 

 

Regarding Jeff Pls comment, I would guess the fold up spacers have no bearing on ghetto ease of converting to S7. Apart from all the other issue in a conversion of that sort, you would be replacing all existing spacers anyway.

Cheers,

Peter

[david.hill64]

With the centre holes in the rods being larger does the kit come with a larger crank pin bush? What is the purpose of this larger hole?

 

 

The kit is supplied with special centre crankpins that require the centre drivers tapped M2. The crankpin has a stud to locate the return crank. I'll post photos when I get chance. I need to fit the crankpins soon to check that the chassis rolls freely with the rods on.

[david.hill64]

I wasn't aware that the frames came as a fold-up unit, with extra spacers. Not easy to convert to S7 then?

 

I don't like fold up frames but this has worked OK. The frames are quite wide (haven't measured them) so you might get away with it. Otherwise as you are going to need a new set of frame spacers anyway you could easily cut away the fold up parts and replace them.

[david.hill64]

Some progress with the cab tonight.

 

First I strengthened the bends on the cab locating tabs, made up the sliding windows and tinned the areas of the cab inners that are going to receive the window runners and the door hinges (which I omitted in the photo of cab parts).

 

 

I then added the inner spectacle plate and cab sides. These were first tacked along the bottom edges (all pieces), sides (side pieces) and top (front piece). when happy I then put a big seam of solder in the front corners and at the top of the sides.

 

 

 

I then drilled through the various holes and added the cinder guards. These protrude right in the middle of the sliding window runners!

 

 

 

So had to be cleaned up.

 

 

Handrail knobs next.

 

 

Again these had to be cut flush on the inside. Following which the door hinges were added. I spent some time making sure these are secure as I had some issues with the last build. I have also decided on a different method for attaching the cab doors. More anon!

 

 

 

I still have to add the window frames, beading and handrails before the final job which will be the whitemetal window runners.

 

I have also decided that my plan to file flat the locating tabs isn't a good one, so I now plan to carve out the floor to locate them. It's just whitemetal and I can flood the area with low melt solder to make good any excess excavations!

 

 

 

 

[david.hill64]

The beading has been fitted to the cab sides and the roof fit checked.

 

 

 

Then I added the handrails.

 

 

The lower sliding window runner was soldered in its groove.

 

 

Then both windows added to get the location for the top rail, which was then soldered in place.

 

 

Repeated on the other side and we now have sliding windows.

 

 

Now it needs cleaning up and the doors added.

 

[N15class]

Looks an interesting build. I must get back to the bench and do some building for profit.

[JeffP]

Looking good. I love these sort of detailed builds, like you used to get in RM and MRJ YEARS ago.

[SimonME46]

I will be following this with interest, I have one of these kits in the cupboard..

[Grasshopper John]

David, I saw your post on WT, Congratulations on finalising your purchase of Gladiator.

 

I wish you many years of production.

 

John.

[david.hill64]

OK lots of photos today: the quality not so good on a lot of them though, so apologies for that.

 

I do not like the suggested method of fitting the cab doors.

 

 

These are supposed to be secured by wire soldered into the half etched parts and running through the hinge. The doors can then lift off, or as I discovered before, fall off.

 

 

So I decided on an alternative method using some 0.7mm tube and 0.5mm wire. The tube was cut to fit between the hinges.

 

 

And then soldered to the door using the wire as a guide to ensure that it is parallel with the edge of the door.

 

 

Then a hinge pin made form wire. seen here with the parts for the second door.

 

 

The hinge pins are then fed through the top hinge, the door tube and then teh bottom hinge, resulting in freely moving secure doors.

 

 

 

Feely pleased with myself I started to look at the running plate which is a big whitemetal casting. There are several runners across the plate which will need to be removed, but for now I have kept the flat ones in place.

 

. 

 

Attempting to fix the cab onto the locating pegs revealed that the pegs and holes don't match, so the holes were amended to suit. As expected the cab sits up on the footplate.

 

 

 

This was resolved by cutting metal from the footplate using some miniature cutters in a hand held drill. Not pretty.

 

 

But effective.

 

 

When the cab is soldered in place it will be possible to clean it up nicely.

 

Again not unexpected, the running plate doesn't sit properly on the frames. The last time I built this kit I didn't check this until far too late, so my tip for this kit is to make sure the running plate sits nicely on the frames before going any further.

 

 

 

 

This was fixed by filing the frames, particularly in the front and rear curves. Some metal was also taken off the top of the rear frames.

 

 

 

The fit is much improved.

 

 

 

Now I need to clean up the ruining plate and remove the Cowlairs corner strengtheners. Meanwhile here is progress to date (less bogie).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[N15class]

I like the cab doors, will try that myself when the need arises.

 

I wonder why a cast footplate, it is one of the places you really want nice crisp edges. I understand cast boilers, fireboxes etc.

 

It is the part that I always replaced when I built 4mm cast kits.

[david.hill64]

For some reason 'Reply Quoting This Post' isn't working for me anymore. This is a reply to Peter.

 

At least DJH do big castings well! In this kit there are brass overlays to go along the main running plate: these will form the nice edges above the valances.

[david.hill64]

I am having problems uploading photos, so this is a quick test.

 

 

OK, that seems to have worked!

 

The photo shows the splash guards. When I built this kit first time around, I found these on the fret late in the build and wondered what they were. They do not appear in the build instructions, but are shown in a detail drawing and in the parts list. They need to be fitted before the boiler is attached otherwise you need to cut them about to fit. They are almost invisible in the final model and could probably be omitted, but I am going to try to get them in this time. Some other preparatory work required though first, starting with cleaning up the boiler casting.

 

Actually this is a very nice casting indeed with minimal flash and nice sharp detail.

 

No! Cannot upload! So let's finish this post and try another.

 

[david.hill64]

So here is the cleaned up boiler casting.

 

 

There are some small blind holes along the top of the firebox. On the V1 kits these had to be drilled out and small pieces of 0.5mm wire inserted to resemble the cladding fixings. I wonder of the same is required here? Does anybody know? I'll scour the photos that I have.

 

Now the problems start..............

 

The smokebox saddle casting is a very nice piece of metal, with good detail and little flash. Unfortunately its dimensions are wrong. I had a lot of problems forts time round, and it looks like the same thing this time. So if the photos will upload, let me explain the problem (and when and if we get there, the solution!)

 

Won't upload so another post beckons.

 

 

[david.hill64]

OK for the photos this time so on with the story.

 

The casting should be soldered to the running plate and sit in the frames. You can see the cut outs in the running plate where it will fit. The first thing to notice is that the frame spacer prevents the casting from sitting in the correct place in the frames.

 

 

 

I decided to cut metal away from the rear of the casting so that it will sit in its spot in the frames.

 

 

 

This may not be the correct solution: it might have been better to chop the top off the frame spacer. This spacer is curved at the top and matches the casting. But there is another problem: the casting now sits proud of the running plate.

 

 

The question is: is the saddle too high so that the boiler is too high at the front? Or can we get away with just filing back the flanges on the sides of the casting so that it sits flush with the running plate? The joins will be covered by the overlays so do not need to be too tidy.

 

 

I haven't measured up yet, but I have a horrible feeling that the smokebox is now 1-2mm too high. Possible solutions include major butchery of the saddle casting ( the previous solution), cutting the frames to suit (probably better and possible at this stage) or removing metal from the boiler casting (probably not an option as there will be a strange step at the saddle casting.

 

Some careful measurements are required before proceeding.

 

 

 

 

[N15class]

Lots of the kits I build you expect bits to be not quite right or wrong, but I would of thought at the price they charge for these kits, it would be a bit different.

 

Great watching you sort out these irregularities.

[david.hill64]

Lots of the kits I build you expect bits to be not quite right or wrong, but I would of thought at the price they charge for these kits, it would be a bit different.

 

Great watching you sort out these irregularities.

Thanks: it is very frustrating! I guess it is a migration issue from pure Piercy to DJH/Piercy. At least I was expecting it.

 

Looking at the photos it strikes me that I must test the cylinder backing plates (these locate in the three holes) as this will also give an indication of what is possible to be done. The instructions say to fix these to the frames, but that is not a good idea! More about that later.

 

I regret now having spent time to cut metal from the rear of the saddle casting: it would have been better to chop the curved top off the frame spacer. It isn't really visible in the finished model. I am going to have to do that anyway if I need to lower the casting, and I am pretty sure I will. At least it is Saturday tomorrow, so as long as the hangover isn't too bad I'll have fresh eyes to see what is happening!

[Silverstreak]

David

 

In view of your comments I think if it were me I would consider filing the Smoke box/Boiler casting as a last resort.  Cutting back the frame spacer or cut it out completely, then replacing with scrap piece of brass strip fitted lower down in the chassis. That would enable you to retain the screw line which I'm supposing is there as fixing point to attach the chassis to the body

 

Regards

Bob

Edited December 18, 2015 by Silverstreak

[david.hill64]

David

 

In view of your comments I think if it were me I would consider filing the Smoke box/Boiler casting as a last resort.  Cutting back the frame spacer or cut it out completely, then replacing with scrap piece of brass strip fitted lower down in the chassis. That would enable you to retain the screw line which I'm supposing is there as fixing point to attach the chassis to the body

 

Regards

Bob

Agreed! See below!

David

[david.hill64]

I resorted to cutting the frames.

 

Here is the spacer that gets in the way. If I ever get to build this kit again, I will chop the top off this spacer before it is in place. Cutting it just above the tabs that fit into the frames will do. That means that cutting the rear of the saddle was not necessary (sorry Mike) but it will not be noticed.

 

 

I marked up where to cut.

 

 

 

Then I realised that it didn't need to be precise as the cylinder rears will cover any gaps.

 

 

I spent a little time cleaning up the running plate then drilling and tapping the rear fixing holes. 

 

 

I have not yet cut out the Cowlairs corners.

 

The saddle was drilled and tapped M2 for the front fixing screws and drilled out 2mm for clear the boiler to saddle fixing screw. I must remember to solder an M2 nut in place before I go any further. Also spent time cleaning up the cylinder castings and checking the fit to the rears.

 

 

The saddle was then soldered into the running plate with the side pieces flush with the top of the running plate. These pieces are a bit thicker than the running plate and I am going to have to remove material so that teh cylinders fit.

 

 

The running plate now sits level on the frames and the gap between the saddle and the frames will be hidden by the cylinder back plates.

 

 

Now the boiler sits level on the frames.

 

 

There is still some fettling to do at the smokebox-saddle interface, but it's nearly there.

 

I now need to get on with the chassis so that I can see how the splash guards will fit.

 

Quite pleased with efforts today!

 

 

Edited December 19, 2015 by david.hill64

[david.hill64]

A few 'forgotten jobs' before moving on.

 

First was to get the M2 nut soldered into the saddle.

 

 

Then cut out the Cowlairs corners.

 

 

To ensure that the cylinders fit OK, I cut out the rear tops. One done and one original.

 

 

The instructions tell you to fix the cylinder backing plates to the frames, but I think it is better to make then detachable so that the cylinders can later be removed for maintenance, so I soldered an M2 screw into the lower hole.

 

 

The cylinders will then be able to be retained by an M2 nut.

 

 

Next it was time to check that the boiler to saddle fixing screw is in the correct position. It will go through the smokebox lower casting as well later.

 

 

It is in the correct position as the firebox sits snug against the spectacle plate.

 

 

I decided that now would be a good time to drill out and fit the body to chassis mounting blocks in the frames.

 

Rear:

 

 

and front:

 

 

The front ones have to be drilled so that the cylinder backing plates will fit flush against the frames.

 

 

Then I tinned the various areas on the frames that will have parts attached and gave them a good wash.

 

 

The centre wheels have to be drilled and tapped M2 to take the special crankpins. These needed to be run through the M2 die to clean up the thread and then loctited in place.

 

 

 

The standard Slaters 12BA screws were loctited in place on the leading and trailing axles. The chassis runs smoothly without any binding of the coupling rods.

 

 

Now I will fit the whitemetal balance weights and start preparing the motion for assembly. Lots of cutting and filing of lost wax castings!

 

 

[david.hill64]

Not too much to show for some long hours of toil!

 

I fitted the balance weights and while the glue was out decided to ft the axleboxes and springs as well. I didn't fancy trying to get these large castings soldered to a big heat sink so glue is the answer. They are entirely decorative not structural/

 

 

The it was out with the piercing saw to cut the brass castings off the sprues, followed by files and drills to clean up. At this stage they are still rough and will get a final clean up as they are needed. I'll do a bit more cleaning up tonight, but tomorrow I'll be on the plane home so progress will stop for a few days.

 

[N15class]

I hate cleaning up cast or etched valve gear it seems to go on forever.

 

Wont be long before the frames are running.

 

Happy Christmas to you and the family.

[david.hill64]

I hate cleaning up cast or etched valve gear it seems to go on forever.

 

Wont be long before the frames are running.

 

Happy Christmas to you and the family.

Thanks Peter: Happy Christmas to you and yours too.

 

All of the valve gear parts are castings: only the coupling and connecting rods are etched. Very nice but the castings do take some cleaning up. The slidebars and crosshead will required some effort to get a nice smooth surface for a good sliding fit, but it will be worth it. You can see on the crosshead castings that there is a boss cast just above where the nut will go. Unfortunately there is some flash behind that and as teh gap is small it is quite difficult to get in there to clean it out properly, but it will be done.

 

I am not sure about it being not long before we have a runner: I am looking forward to a Christmas break where I shall be sorting out the Gladiator moulds and drinking beer (in that order)! My plan when I am back is to get the frames running, then disassemble it and add the remaining chassis detail. There is a lot of that. I'll then spray the frames. Last time I was home I couldn't find any black etch primer but I'll try again. Then all will be re-assembled. I am hoping to have it all complete by the end of January when I return for the Bristol show. I'll be working here part time for the next few months until  my employer has a replacement.

[Grasshopper John]

Try this Dave, its bloody good stuff you can adjust the nozzle for sharp or wide spray.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminium-Galvanised-Stainless-Etch-Primer-BLACK-400ml-Aerosol-/171591697288?hash=item27f3a98388:g:nYkAAOSwj0NUkDqe

 

Safe journey.

 

John.