Elizabeth Line / Crossrail Updates.

[mdvle]

9 hours ago, phil gollin said:

 

Not being at all involved in Cross Rail/Elizabeth Line, AND BASED ON THE SUPPOSED COMPLETION OF MOST OF THE CENTRAL LONDON INFRASTRUCTURE, is there a reason why trains cannot run back and forth across the central section on a simple staff, or single train on each track system ?

 

.

 

As of January at least one station was nowhere near completion, thus fairly evident that the central London infrastructure isn't completed.  For safety reasons alone I would guess everything would have to be completed so that fire alarm systems were fully functional and escape routes clear and safe to use.

 

Even if that was all done and thus people could safely use the tunnels, without the signalling system there would be so little capacity that running a service would be counter-productive.

[ess1uk]

How far out from Paddington does the ETCS extend?

is it only to milepost 12 ?

[Clearwater]

I went through Stratford in the Central line earlier today.  The adjacent Shenfield line was cordoned off however there was one of the new stock sitting at the platform.  Glancing across, I noted the train indicator said that it was a service from Reading.  That made me wonder what they were testing - are they trialling running stock through the tunnels?

 

david

[St. Simon]

On 21/05/2019 at 22:43, ess1uk said:

How far out from Paddington does the ETCS extend?

is it only to milepost 12 ?

 

Hi,

 

It doesn't yet technically, at the moment ETCS Level 1 is only installed on the Heathrow Branch (it doesn't reach onto the main or relief lines) , but in the next year or so, the ETCS Level 2 Overlay will only extend out to the 12 Milepost on the Main and Relief Lines as well as all the way to Heathrow.

 

Simon

[ess1uk]

3 minutes ago, St. Simon said:

 

Hi,

 

It doesn't yet technically, at the moment ETCS Level 1 is only installed on the Heathrow Branch (it doesn't reach onto the main or relief lines) , but in the next year or so, the ETCS Level 2 Overlay will only extend out to the 12 Milepost on the Main and Relief Lines as well as all the way to Heathrow.

 

Simon

Ah that makes sense

wondered what was happening.

thanks for filling in the blanks

[Ron Ron Ron]

On 09/06/2019 at 18:53, Clearwater said:

I went through Stratford in the Central line earlier today. ....

....I noted the train indicator said that it was a service from Reading.  That made me wonder what they were testing - are they trialling running stock through the tunnels?

 

 

They've been running the Class 345 stock through the tunnels for quite a time.

Different stages of testing etc.

 

 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

On 09/06/2019 at 18:53, Clearwater said:

I went through Stratford in the Central line earlier today. ....

....I noted the train indicator said that it was a service from Reading.  That made me wonder what they were testing - are they trialling running stock through the tunnels?

 

 

They've been running the Class 345 stock through the tunnels for quite a time.

Different stages of testing etc.

 

 

 

 

Crossrail progress update 31st May 2019.....

 

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-project-update#

 

 

 

 

 

.

[slilley]

There is testing through the tunnels, I have seen one train enetering the tunnel near Paddington heading eastbound as I have been arriving there at 7am. Also a few times recently I have seen a set heading eastbound through Langley.

[jim.snowdon]

9 hours ago, slilley said:

There is testing through the tunnels, I have seen one train enetering the tunnel near Paddington heading eastbound as I have been arriving there at 7am. Also a few times recently I have seen a set heading eastbound through Langley.

But nothing between the GW Main Line and the Crossrail tunnels other than specific stock movements to and from the OOC depot and the tunnels. The movements between the depot and Maidenhead/Reading are either testing/mileage runs or driver training, with no connection to the tunnels. Although there is a running connection between the western tunnel portal and the GWML, every time I have seen it, it has had a continuous nets on barrier across both tracks.

 

Jim

[The Stationmaster]

It is not unusual during the day to see a 345 set in one of the reversing sidings at Westbourne Park and back a couple of months ago one morning there were two sets there.  But they won't have come from OOC for the reason Jim stated.

[St. Simon]

On ‎15‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 21:16, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

They've been running the Class 345 stock through the tunnels for quite a time.

Different stages of testing etc.

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

I have seen on LinkedIn that they have got to the stage of close proximity headway testing at speed in both directions, so they really have sped up the process.

 

Simon

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, St. Simon said:

.....I have seen on LinkedIn that they have got to the stage of close proximity headway testing at speed in both directions, so they really have sped up the process.

 

 

There must have been a press release as that news is being reported on in various places.

 

New Civil Engineer has a report.....

 

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/crossrail-hits-major-milestone-as-multiple-train-testing-begins/10043085.article

 

 

Crossrail hits 'major milestone' as multiple train testing begins.

 

Crossrail has reached a “major milestone”, after successfully running multiple trains in close formation through the tunnels.

The achievement was marked in an announcement made by Crossrail chief executive Mark Wild.

It comes after Wild revealed that one of the main causes for the delay related to systems tests due to outstanding work, when he revealed his project post-mortem in January having been drafted in to the project shortly before the end of 2018.

 

“Dynamic testing didn’t work a year ago [because of] two simple reasons:

the signalling integration hadn’t been completed,

and you can’t test something which hasn’t been installed,” he said at the time.

 

A new programme of dynamic testing then re-started in January this year.

 

The new milestone in carrying out the first close headway testing with multiple trains in close formation was hailed as a “big step forward for our ambition to be into full trial running in the early part of 2020”, by Wild.

“On Sunday 8th June we achieved a notable milestone for this remarkable project.

The first close headway testing with multiple trains in close formation,” Wild said. 

“Congratulations to my team, Siemens and Bombardier for this milestone.

There is a long way to go but the testing was positive.” 

He added: “A big step forward for our ambition to be into full Trial Running in the early part of 2020.”  

 

A Crossrail spokesperson added: “Work at Crossrail stations continues as we complete the final fit-out and testing of key systems.

During the weekend we commenced close-headway multi-train testing in the tunnels and is another important step forward in the dynamic testing phase.”

 

In April this year, a revised six-month window for opening was announced with the earliest date pinned as October 2020 and the latest being March 2021. 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

From Crossrail a few weeks back....

 

Dynamic testing of the trains in the tunnels is underway using up to 4 x class 345 trains. 

A key purpose of testing is to identify and fix any software bugs in the train control system and to make sure everything works as planned.

Testing currently takes place for around 4 days each week.

Trains have been operating in the tunnels at line speed (100 kph / 62 mph) using the new automatic signalling system.

The next phase of testing will involve close-headway testing where trains are testing in close proximity to each other.

A series of software upgrades will be delivered to give the train control system its full functionality; this incremental approach to building up system-testing and verification will continue throughout 2019. 

Crossrail will trial run the trains over many thousands of miles on the new railway to shake out any problems and ensure the highest levels of safety and reliability.

[Ron Ron Ron]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

Any ideas as to why there are two short formation sets? There may be others, which are not on show in the above photos.

 

 

[jim.snowdon]

36 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

Any ideas as to why there are two short formation sets? There may be others, which are not on show in the above photos.

 

 

The intention was to start services west of Paddington with 7-car sets until the platforms had all been lengthened, and certainly the sets on the Hayes services are 7-car at present.

 

Jim 

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

The intention was to start services west of Paddington with 7-car sets until the platforms had all been lengthened, and certainly the sets on the Hayes services are 7-car at present.

 

Apart from the Paddington to Hayes & Harlington route, the TfL services running out of Liverpool Street to Shenfield are using the shortened 7-car sets, until platforms are lengthened.

 

All Class 345 sets will be 9-car when the full Crossrail (Elizabeth Line) service starts operating.

 

 

.

[jim.snowdon]

That's a lot of cars waiting for a railway. 

 

Jim

[Ron Ron Ron]

4 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

That's a lot of cars waiting for a railway. 

 

Jim

 

Not even half the fleet Jim.

That's just over 1/3 of the 70 sets.

 

 

 

.

[rory]

To clear up a few things:

There has been extensive testing on both fringes, with relative success. The failure of NR to deliver ETCS (originally planned for 2017) has a big impact as the system is designed to transition to ETCS. 

There is no plan to commission ETCS L2 on GW before or during the October 20 to March 21 opening window (this is by NR/Alstom)

Both fringes have to be completely commissioned to open an abbey wood to Paddington service as the two depots are Ilford and OOC. 

 

Trains can run end to end reliably, but the system has many complex interfaces and functions and it is these which take a lot of testing and software revisions. 

 

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

That's a lot of cars waiting for a railway. 

 

Jim

That's also a heck of a lot of interest being paid with no return to support it.

[jim.snowdon]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

That's also a heck of a lot of interest being paid with no return to support it.

Very true, with the whole thing leaving TfL's finances in dire straits.

 

Jim

[Mike Storey]

3 hours ago, rory said:

To clear up a few things:

There has been extensive testing on both fringes, with relative success. The failure of NR to deliver ETCS (originally planned for 2017) has a big impact as the system is designed to transition to ETCS. 

There is no plan to commission ETCS L2 on GW before or during the October 20 to March 21 opening window (this is by NR/Alstom)

Both fringes have to be completely commissioned to open an abbey wood to Paddington service as the two depots are Ilford and OOC. 

 

Trains can run end to end reliably, but the system has many complex interfaces and functions and it is these which take a lot of testing and software revisions. 

 

 

That's very interesting. Especially as nobody, either at CrossRail, or TfL, used that excuse. ETCS was never a guaranteed date, and Crossrail knew that. ETCS Level 2 was postponed about a year before any problems with CrossRail were reported.

 

As you say, CrossRail trains were designed to "transition" to ETCS L2 (and ERTMS) but neither were, or will be available for some time, on the GE. It would be helpful if you could expand on why this delay on the GW has had a "big impact" on the original testing programme??

 

[jim.snowdon]

4 minutes ago, Mike Storey said:

 

That's very interesting. Especially as nobody, either at CrossRail, or TfL, used that excuse. ETCS was never a guaranteed date, and Crossrail knew that. ETCS Level 2 was postponed about a year before any problems with CrossRail were reported.

 

As you say, CrossRail trains were designed to "transition" to ETCS L2 (and ERTMS) but neither were, or will be available for some time, on the GE. It would be helpful if you could expand on why this delay on the GW has had a "big impact" on the original testing programme??

 

Especially as the Crossrail stock is already happily running, in passenger service, on both the GW And GE lines without any form of ETCS. 

 

Jim

[St. Simon]

3 hours ago, rory said:

To clear up a few things:

There has been extensive testing on both fringes, with relative success. The failure of NR to deliver ETCS (originally planned for 2017) has a big impact as the system is designed to transition to ETCS. 

There is no plan to commission ETCS L2 on GW before or during the October 20 to March 21 opening window (this is by NR/Alstom)

Both fringes have to be completely commissioned to open an abbey wood to Paddington service as the two depots are Ilford and OOC. 

 

Trains can run end to end reliably, but the system has many complex interfaces and functions and it is these which take a lot of testing and software revisions. 

 

 

Hi,

 

I believe there is a plan to commission the ETCS Overlay prior to 2021, but even then, as long as the trains can transition between CBTC & AWS/TPWS and between AWS/TPWS and ETCS, then technically the service can run.

 

Simon