Elizabeth Line / Crossrail Updates.

[The Stationmaster]

1 minute ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

I thought that the extra trains were ordered when the extension to Reading was announced.

 

 

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Basically I'm reasonably sure that was the case Ron although I think the train order was announced later than the extension to Reading (but it was pretty obvious to me what the trains were for - it's discussed some way back in this thread).

[Ron Ron Ron]

I typed in haste and have just amended that post as you were replying, Mike.

 

It now reads.....

"I thought that the extra trains were ordered after the announcement of the extension to Reading?"

 

As indeed the order for additional trains was made after assessing the impact of the extension and to cover the likelihood of extending the Heathrow Crossrail service to T5 (which was subsequently announced).

 

 

Ron

[Grovenor]

3 hours ago, Arun Sharma said:

The other element that wasn't even remotely touched upon in the programme was the complication of matters by extending CrossRail at a very late stage from Maidenhead to Reading with the knock-on effects on platform availability and intra-station track crossing paths at Reading. Especially as it would affect XC trains - with knock-on effects all the way to New Street and possibly beyond. This point is the subject of recent posts in the class 800 thread by Stationmaster et al.

Given the brevity of the Cn 5 TV programme and that the Reading extension had nothing to do with the central area station delays or with the central area signalling testing which are the major delays why would they mention it. If the extension to Reading had been delayed they could still have opened to Maidenhead. As brought out in the programme the issue was project management skills at the top. It might have gone a lot better if the bonuses were contingent on completion to time and budget and not paid out until after completion. As it stands top management got significant bonuses for poor performance.

Decent penalty clauses in the contracts might have helped also, such as those responsible for construction delays having to pay the lease costs of idle trains.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Grovenor

[caradoc]

Whether it was directly their fault or not, the failure of the senior managers to accept responsibility for this debacle (while still pocketing their bonuses) was disgraceful, and the attempt to defend the huge salaries because 'you have to pay the rate for the expertise' was laughable; Expertise in what exactly?

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, Grovenor said:

Given the brevity of the Cn 5 TV programme and that the Reading extension had nothing to do with the central area station delays or with the central area signalling testing which are the major delays why would they mention it. If the extension to Reading had been delayed they could still have opened to Maidenhead. As brought out in the programme the issue was project management skills at the top. It might have gone a lot better if the bonuses were contingent on completion to time and budget and not paid out until after completion. As it stands top management got significant bonuses for poor performance.

Decent penalty clauses in the contracts might have helped also, such as those responsible for construction delays having to pay the lease costs of idle trains.

However the extension to Reading is another item which has increased the costs of the project so it is relevant to that extent.  And of course it has increased current expenditure while no revenue is coming in on the western side of London, which will continue to be the case until December.

[royaloak]

39 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

<snip> no revenue is coming in on the western side of London, which will continue to be the case until December.

Cross rail are running the passenger services from Paddington to Hayes and Harlington (class 345) and Heathrow terminal 4 (class 360) so do have a small amount of revenue coming in from the Western side.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, royaloak said:

Cross rail are running the passenger services from Paddington to Hayes and Harlington (class 345) and Heathrow terminal 4 (class 360) so do have a small amount of revenue coming in from the Western side.

I forgot that one (despite seeing the thing!!) so thanks - although it will indeed be a small amount as it will no doubt be subject to an ORCATS split.  And some of it will continue to be so after December as various stations in that area will still be served by GWR services.

[Bernard Lamb]

Yesterday at Whitechapel.

[Mark Saunders]

1 minute ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Yesterday at Whitechapel.

 

And nobody thought to bring a ball!

[flapland]

29 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

And nobody thought to bring a ball!

TFL dropped that some time ago. 

[Titan]

1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Yesterday at Whitechapel.

 

Reminds me of when I attended a derailment at Doncaster. There was that much orange about you actually stood out more if you weren't wearing hi-viz!

[Ron Ron Ron]

 

 

 

 

 

Those photos and lots more are from this news article..........

 

https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/crossrail-delays-new-pictures-show-16770944

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Ron Ron Ron]

Article posted today on the Rail magazine web site news section........

 

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/crossrail-progress-on-testing-and-systems-installation

 

 

 

 

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[Ron Ron Ron]

From "Construction Manager"......

 

http://www.constructionmanagermagazine.com/news/crossrail-station-contractors-start-demobilise/

 

 

 

 

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[Ron Ron Ron]

Network Rail - Crossrail West Stations Newsletter - August 2019.

 

An update on progress with the redevelopment of the western section stations.

 

http://74f85f59f39b887b696f-ab656259048fb93837ecc0ecbcf0c557.r23.cf3.rackcdn.com/assets/library/document/w/original/west_stations_newsletter_august_2019.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

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[The Stationmaster]

On 21/08/2019 at 14:00, Ron Ron Ron said:

Network Rail - Crossrail West Stations Newsletter - August 2019.

 

An update on progress with the redevelopment of the western section stations.

 

http://74f85f59f39b887b696f-ab656259048fb93837ecc0ecbcf0c557.r23.cf3.rackcdn.com/assets/library/document/w/original/west_stations_newsletter_august_2019.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

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Ah, that might explain some of the trenches which have recently been dug in the platforms at Twyford (although there is a lot more to do there before any camera/monitor systems can be installed let alone commissioned).   Commissioning of the new Class 345 DOO kit on the western section will no doubt have to be completed and fully tested prior to the trains entering service beyond Hayes on 15 December.

[The Stationmaster]

Now that the December 16 timetables are about (so far only on Real Time Trains as far as I can find) the impact of  Crossrail west of Hayes is becoming seriously, and worryingly, apparent.  The off peak service starting in December has a half hourly interval to Reading but the timetable has clearly been put together in ignorance of certain basic themes of railway timetabling - such as providing workable connections.  It would seem that in their - dare I say it - London centric little world, which apparently ceases at the doors of their trains beyond the boundaries of London, the attitude of Crossrail's service planners has been that the rest of the railway, and any places served by it, has sweet f.a. to do with them.  

 

This rather naive attitude has resulted in extended journey times westwards for people coming off the Thames Valley branches with long distance (and some shorter distance) previous connections at Reading thoroughly trashed which means some journey times will be extended. by at least 30 minutes.  In addition our branch, and I think the Marlow branch, have a relatively healthy level of commuter traffic into Reading, something which has been nurtured and has grown over a long time.  But almost every commuter journey time from our branch to Reading in the main morning commuter period has been extended, in one case by 12 minutes for what currently is a 23 minute journey while what is currently a 27 minute  journey for the previous train will be increased by 8 minutes.   Even worse is a popular mid-morning train where the current 27 minute journey will take 45 minutes.  The Marlow branch doesn't suffer quite so badly but some journey times to Reading are extended during the morning peak

 

Just as bad - for some travellers (and there are some) - is that these changes will destroy various long distance connections at Reading thus, again extending journey times by 30 minutes

 

Oddly the one SX service which might offer a slightly sub-standard connection into a GWR train towards Reading at the end of the morning peak will see no change of journey (and hopefully the sub-standard connection will continue to be made).  In view of the high parking charges in Reading I doubt many people would shift to using private cars but I don't doubt that DB Arriva, the operators of the competing 'bus route, will be rubbing their hands in joy.

 

But on the other hand because of their extended, 11 minute,  turn round times at Reading there will actually be a slight improvement travelling off peak in the opposite direction.

 

So not only trains unfit for some of  the journeys which will have to be made on them due to lack of toilets and various other facilities but trains which will for some existing passengers be delivering a poorer service at higher cost following the January fare increase.  The most popular of the later commuter trains to Paddington sees the overall journey time increase from 59 minutes to 66 minutes giving 49 minutes without access to a toilet or any proper room for luggage - and that's a train I occasionally use (with luggage).  

 

Whether or not things might improve (or worsen) when Crossrail finally has an underground railway to run on through London is of course a matter of conjecture (or should that be dread?).  My views are of course very parochial but that should hardly be surprising when it is our local train service which is suffering at the hands of remote and utterly disinterested train operators who have shown no interest at all in talking to our local branch user group.

[phil-b259]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Now that the December 16 timetables are about (so far only on Real Time Trains as far as I can find) the impact of  Crossrail west of Hayes is becoming seriously, and worryingly, apparent.  The off peak service starting in December has a half hourly interval to Reading but the timetable has clearly been put together in ignorance of certain basic themes of railway timetabling - such as providing workable connections.  It would seem that in their - dare I say it - London centric little world, which apparently ceases at the doors of their trains beyond the boundaries of London, the attitude of Crossrail's service planners has been that the rest of the railway, and any places served by it, has sweet f.a. to do with them.  

 

This rather naive attitude has resulted in extended journey times westwards for people coming off the Thames Valley branches with long distance (and some shorter distance) previous connections at Reading thoroughly trashed which means some journey times will be extended. by at least 30 minutes.  In addition our branch, and I think the Marlow branch, have a relatively healthy level of commuter traffic into Reading, something which has been nurtured and has grown over a long time.  But almost every commuter journey time from our branch to Reading in the main morning commuter period has been extended, in one case by 12 minutes for what currently is a 23 minute journey while what is currently a 27 minute  journey for the previous train will be increased by 8 minutes.   Even worse is a popular mid-morning train where the current 27 minute journey will take 45 minutes.  The Marlow branch doesn't suffer quite so badly but some journey times to Reading are extended during the morning peak

 

Just as bad - for some travellers (and there are some) - is that these changes will destroy various long distance connections at Reading thus, again extending journey times by 30 minutes

 

Oddly the one SX service which might offer a slightly sub-standard connection into a GWR train towards Reading at the end of the morning peak will see no change of journey (and hopefully the sub-standard connection will continue to be made).  In view of the high parking charges in Reading I doubt many people would shift to using private cars but I don't doubt that DB Arriva, the operators of the competing 'bus route, will be rubbing their hands in joy.

 

But on the other hand because of their extended, 11 minute,  turn round times at Reading there will actually be a slight improvement travelling off peak in the opposite direction.

 

So not only trains unfit for some of  the journeys which will have to be made on them due to lack of toilets and various other facilities but trains which will for some existing passengers be delivering a poorer service at higher cost following the January fare increase.  The most popular of the later commuter trains to Paddington sees the overall journey time increase from 59 minutes to 66 minutes giving 49 minutes without access to a toilet or any proper room for luggage - and that's a train I occasionally use (with luggage).  

 

Whether or not things might improve (or worsen) when Crossrail finally has an underground railway to run on through London is of course a matter of conjecture (or should that be dread?).  My views are of course very parochial but that should hardly be surprising when it is our local train service which is suffering at the hands of remote and utterly disinterested train operators who have shown no interest at all in talking to our local branch user group.

 

A cinic would say ‘why should they’

 

The residents of Henley, Marlow, etc do not vote for the London mayor / GLA assembly and said bodies are not responsible for the roads into Reading either. If GWR revenue declines and traffic congestion into Reading gets worse then it won’t hurt TfL.

 

Of course if we had a properly functional DfT they could made TfL consider the needs of others - but when dumping things on TfL (without providing any subsidy because ‘London is rich so can easily afford to bankroll them on their own’) is encouraged by HM Treasury what hope do we have.

Edited August 24, 2019 by phil-b259

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

The other thing is that the December 2019 timetable change is being driven by GWR rather than Crossrail, so it's likely that Crossrail are having to fit around GWR using the paths that Network Rail have given them.

 

Simon

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, St. Simon said:

Hi,

 

The other thing is that the December 2019 timetable change is being driven by GWR rather than Crossrail, so it's likely that Crossrail are having to fit around GWR using the paths that Network Rail have given them.

 

Simon

I suspect not looking at the actual services.  Crossrail come out - west of Maidenhead at any rate - with an even interval off peak service of two trains per hour.  GWR are also providing an even interval off peak service of two trains per hour and it is noticeable on our branch that trains have been retimed by 4 minutes into a revised off peak half hourly interval pattern while - as has long been promised to user/commuter groups the fast peak hour connections have been maintained with GWR trains.  This clearly indicates that the basic GWR's off peak service has had to be retimed - quite possibly because of the line occupation situation which will develop east of West Drayton/Hayes where I suspect the service will be too dense to maintain reliable performance once the full Crossrail service is in operation or more likely  because of the extra stops being made by Crossrail trains.

 

Overall there has obviously been a more general recast than simply slotting in the Crossrail trains and the fact that various connections have been broken clearly indicates that Crossrail trains have not been dropped into paths vacated by current GWR trains, especially where one is 22 minutes out of any current path.

 

One thing I always find amusing is comparison of journey for example in the Summer 1963 TT our 10.29 departure gave an arrival time in Reading of 10.54; the current 10.23 departure gives a Reading arrival time of 10.50; the December TT 10.27 departure will give a Reading arrival time of 11.12. Thinking more of travel to work the 1963 TT 07.29 departure gave a Reading arrival time of 08.12; the current 07.36 gets you to Reading at 07.59 while the December service  07.36 gets you to Reading at 08.11 - admittedly the journey time is 8 minutes quicker than it was 56 years ago but it is also 13 minutes longer than the present journey time.   Where it goes from the abysmal to the utterly ludicrous is that back in 1954 the nearest equivalent journey, on the 07.48, would have got you to Reading  in 31 minutes instead of the 35 minutes it will have from mid December

 

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by The Stationmaster

[Ron Ron Ron]

 

 

 

 

 

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[Shed]

On 09/06/2019 at 19:42, St. Simon said:

 

Hi,

 

It doesn't yet technically, at the moment ETCS Level 1 is only installed on the Heathrow Branch (it doesn't reach onto the main or relief lines) , but in the next year or so, the ETCS Level 2 Overlay will only extend out to the 12 Milepost on the Main and Relief Lines as well as all the way to Heathrow.

 

Simon

When does this happen?

[jamie92208]

3 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for that Ron.   I watched it a couple of nights ago when it popped up on my YouTube feed.   I like the fact that the head Honcho has put himself in front of the camera.   It shows leadership.

 

Jamie

[St. Simon]

On ‎25‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 20:01, Shed said:

When does this happen?

 

This is still being confirmed I believe.

 

Simon

[The Stationmaster]

5 minutes ago, St. Simon said:

 

This is still being confirmed I believe.

 

Simon

What are the Christmas/New Year possessions for Simon - any idea?

 

Incidentally I understand that the Readers Letters' column of our local paper will make interesting reading this week.  I believe there will even be a comment that one journey from December this year will actually take longer than the equivalent did in the Winter Timetable of 90 years ago

Edited August 27, 2019 by The Stationmaster