Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[ArthurK]

I am afraid that that the Alexander kits perpetuate the notion that the NER round windows had brass bezels on the front of the cab sheet. They did not. Now someone will search for a photo  to prove me wrong! The round windows closed behind the cab sheets. This is clearly seen in Mick Nicholson's  photo of 69105. 

 

I admit to getting that wrong on my very first kit (the J24) but I have since learned to study the GAs more closely. As a further point of note  the round windows of NER locos (Worsdell onwards) were all a standard size regardless of loco size. The cab sheet cutout was 1' 5 7/8" diameter.  the inner diameter of the actual brass window was 1' 4" 

 

ArthurK

[rowanj]

The chassis now has coupling rods and it runs smoothly, so Ill fit the motor and pickups and test it for shorts, etc with the body in place. The cab is now devoid of the brass bezels, So far, so good.

69109 will be this loco - I'll build Arthur's kit as a vacuum fitted version. The loco spent all its' life at Gateshead until withdrawal in 1962. It was also unusual in getting the later crest at a general in 1959. The location of the number on late crest locos needs care. 69101, which was another option, had its' number on the bunker side, while 69109's was on the tank side below the crest. Yeadon has only 5 N10's receiving a late crest.

[ArthurK]

John,

 

Can I ask why you have added toolboxes to the cab rear shelf? There weren't  any there. There was a locker on the rear  of the cab between the rear windows. See the instructions for my kit. There was a brake standard on the left of the coal hole (fireman's side). I will send you one of those with your backhead castings .  There was a sanding lever on that side above the sandbox for reverse sanding. 

 

ArthurK

Edited July 26, 2019 by ArthurK

[rowanj]

54 minutes ago, ArthurK said:

John,

 

Can I ask why you have added toolboxes to the cab rear shelf? There weren't  any there. There was a locker on the rear  of the cab between the rear windows. See the instructions for my kit. There was a brake standard on the left of the coal hole (fireman's side). I will send you one of those with your backhead castings .  There was a sanding lever on that side above the sandbox for reverse sanding. 

 

ArthurK

 

Evening, Arthur.

As luck would have it , the toolboxes are only perched on the shelf. Why are they there? Because they were in the kit and the instructions clearly tell you where to fit them. Another error, I suppose, so thank you for the heads up. There is no locker casting, but I will fabricate something. There is an etched sanding lever, but I cant see a brake standard, so thanks for that.

 

I have made a start on Arthur's body ( his N10's I mean). The footplate consists of 2 etches soldered together, This has been done. His instructions suggest a trial fit of the cab/tank sides to the footplate at this stage to check the fit. The 2 sides fold over to make a very strong structure, and I'm inclined to fit them now to the footplate to add rigidity. The folded tank side provide a hollow ideally suited to be filled with lead - I use small lead balls provided for fishermen, which roll all over the floor and irritate my wife . Is permanently fitting the sides at this point a good idea?

[ArthurK]

Fisherman's weight are as good as any other variety of lead but don't fix it using PVA glue or similar. It has a nasty habit of expanding over time and bursting open whatever it is confined in. Known problems are boilers.

 

The cab locker is little more than a box with double door on the front. take the dimensions from my etches. Allow for the thickness of the cab rear/

 

I believe the my kit has two sets of grills for the rear windows. You could use the spare pair for the Alexander kit. 

 

The down-side to fitting the sides early is that it restricts access to the innards. Build the whole of the cab rear as a sub-unit and add that before before fitting the rear of the bunker.

 

ArthurK

[mikemeg]

Just to emphasise what Arthur has said above. The cab rear is composed of multiple etches and should be completely assembled, including the coal gate, before it is fixed in place within the body. The cab rear locker, placed at the top of the cab rear, between the rear cab windows, follows the roof profile on its top edge. When this locker is fixed to the cab rear, care must be taken not to allow the locker to protrude above the cab rear sheet. Also there are slotted recesses on both sides of this locker, which allow the cab roof rear stretcher to locate against the cab rear. Also, ensure that the cab sandboxes, and other cab details, will locate on the cab floor before fixing the cab rear assembly.

 

It is also worth checking that the bunker rear will sit flush with the bunker sides, when the cab rear is positioned i.e. a dry run. I guess you know, by now, that I advocate dry running almost everything to check for fit, before anything is finally assembled - castings, etches, motion work, motors and gearboxes - absolutely everything!!

 

Any slight misalignment of this cab locker or of the slotted recesses will prevent the cab roof from sitting absolutely flush with the cab front and rear.

 

For weighting of locos I use 1/16" sheet lead flashing. Some years ago I bought a roll of this material 6" wide by 6 metres long, from a building supplies outfit - Wickes I think. The roll, when new, cost around £55 and weighed some seventy pounds. This stuff can be easily cut with hacksaw or even tin snips and can then be filed, shaped, etc.  For tanks and tenders, I use one or two layers of this stuff, each layer carefully marked out with a scriber and then cut to fit precisely. It is also wise to leave spaces on these lead infills for the tank filler locating stubs and any handrail knobs. I use the tiny offcuts of lead as bunker weighting and always use Araldite or Cyanoacrylates to glue these offcuts into place - never PVA.

 

For boilers I normally cut a strip between 30 and 50 mm wide and roll it into a round coil so that it just slides into the boiler, missing any internally protruding casting stubs i.e. dome and chimney. The location of this lead coil can then be used to balance the loco. On the G5 0-4-4 tanks, the coils were placed right up into the smokebox; on the D20 4-4-0's the coils were placed at the firebox end of the boiler. Once this coil is correctly profiled and checked for position, I then Araldite it into the boiler, ensuring that the boiler is left level while the Araldite sets. Even a slope of 5 degrees on the boiler will allow the lead coil to slide on the Araldite as a lubricant, thus setting in a different position!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited July 27, 2019 by mikemeg

[Michael Edge]

21 hours ago, rowanj said:

 

Evening, Arthur.

As luck would have it , the toolboxes are only perched on the shelf. Why are they there? Because they were in the kit and the instructions clearly tell you where to fit them. Another error, I suppose, so thank you for the heads up. There is no locker casting, but I will fabricate something. There is an etched sanding lever, but I cant see a brake standard, so thanks for that.

 

I have made a start on Arthur's body ( his N10's I mean). The footplate consists of 2 etches soldered together, This has been done. His instructions suggest a trial fit of the cab/tank sides to the footplate at this stage to check the fit. The 2 sides fold over to make a very strong structure, and I'm inclined to fit them now to the footplate to add rigidity. The folded tank side provide a hollow ideally suited to be filled with lead - I use small lead balls provided for fishermen, which roll all over the floor and irritate my wife . Is permanently fitting the sides at this point a good idea?

Don't glue the lead balls in with PVA, I've had to dig some of this out of some locos I built when the bunkers exploded.

[rowanj]

Thanks again for the helpful posts. I had heard of the tip about PVA and always use 2-part epoxy.

 

as recommended, I have prepared the tank/cab sides, but will do as much as possible in the cab before soldering them in place. In fact , the etches are so accurate that they are held in place by friction.

 

I am a bit unsure about the etched holes down each side of the cab entrance - shown in the photo. They don't seem to be present on the photos Arthur posted of his build (on his  workshop thread), and I recall Mike having to do something on the J72 build, and the design was modified. I don't see a reference to them in the instruction, and now seems to be the time to remove or fill them.  Or do they bend back through 90 degrees as a part of the cab entrance? Any advice gratefully received

Edited July 28, 2019 by rowanj

[rowanj]

The door issue has been resolved- the etch where the holes are drilled bends back 45 degrees to give the illusion of depth by the doorway. this would have been best done before soldering the cab window inlay, rather than after.

 

Otherwise, putting together the cab details at this stage is sound advice. Once these are complete, I'll fit the cab /tank/bunker sides before adding the steps, etc, to the footplate, as I suspect it will need a reasonable amount of heat. Before moving on further with Arthur's kit., I'll complete what I can to the whitemetal version, including the reversing lever, brake standard and locker.

 

Of course, I could quit while I'm ahead, as the photos look very much like some I have of N10's at North Road Scrapyard.....

[mikemeg]

John,

 

Looking at the above photos, just a point re the fold over sections at the top of the cab sides. These should be folded to an angle exactly matching the angle between the side and the top edge of the cab front. If this angle differs, even by a small amount, then the cab roof will not sit flush with the top of the cab sides and there will be a space. This bending is best done, completely, with the tank/cab/bunker side in the flat and with a steel rule butted up exactly to the fold line as, once assembled, any further bending may/will distort the straightness of the cabside opening.

 

It is also useful to put a steel rule across the tops of the tanks to check for their alignment. I normally use a 20" steel rule for this alignment checking with the rule balanced at its centre midway between the side tanks. The end distances can then be measured against the work bench top - or for better accuracy, a sheet of plate glass - to check for absolute level. Wherever I find any such discrepancy, then I try and correct it, there and then, before proceeding.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited July 29, 2019 by mikemeg

[rowanj]

I thought it better to leave the final adjustment to the folds on the cab too until I was ready to fit the sides, Mike, so these were "preliminary" bends ahead of the final adjustment. Time will tell if this was a good idea.

 

In the meantime, the Alexander chassis is now complete. As discussed earlier, I fitted something to represent the inside motion, and added the corner brackets and sandpipes. The wheels are Romford 18mm - I cannot get Gibsons to run, for some reason. Incompetence?

 

The power is Highlevel Compact+ with a cheap Chinese motor. I bought loads of these when you could get the for £1 each for a job-lot of 5. I tend to find that1 or 2 in each pack runs slowly, but the rest are adequate for slower running goods locos, especially if restricted to lightish loads and  my locos  don't run high mileage. They screw into most gearboxes with M2 screws, though at an angle, which can cause a tight fit in some boilers, but fit easily into a tank loco. The piece of paxolin keeps the motor at the correct angle and allows the body to slide over it  when fitting the 2  together

 

I fitted all the brakes supplied in Dave's kit. The result is a very "busy" chassis when it comes to fitting traditional wiper pick-ups. In addition, I only had insulated wheels, and baulked at the thought of trying to get wires to 6 wheels without shorting. I had some packs of etches from Scalelink, designed to fit onto Romford axles, with wipers which touch the wheel rim and cause the wheel to be "live", so I used these on one side. I just could not thread  pickup wire soldered to the paxolin to give a reliable contact, as it just wouldn't spring sufficiently and shorted in the limited space underneath, So I used etch strips - a bit like the stuff Horny use and Triang used to- and , amazingly, after many curses and a good amount of time, it now works. Moreover, it goes around my curves- miracle.

 

Next stage - complete Arthur's chassis and fit the trailing bogie. Then-famous last words- the loco bodies should be straightforward.

[rowanj]

Though it clearly needs some tidying up, this shows what has been done to add detail to the cab interior of the Alexander kit. the incorrect toolboxes have become a locker, and the platforms, not supplied by Dave, have been added. The RH one was drilled to take the reversing lever. A brake standard, again not supplied , is on the fireman's LH side by the cab rear, The sandboxes were represented only by tabs and I'll fill them properly to make them look like boxes. The cab rear is not yet fixed, hence it looks askew in the photo.

 

Of course, with the cab roof on and doors modelled "closed", none of this will be really seen.

 

As an aside, I received a very helpful PM about the guard irons on Arthur's chassis, which I hadn't realised were handed. The sender didn't want to appear picky, which I completely understand. Nevertheless, anyone who exposes their work to a wider public should be willing to receive constructive advice. Indeed , my thread was always about encouraging ordinary modellers to "have a go", so don't worry about my sensitivities. I'm too old to worry, now.

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by rowanj

[rowanj]

A couple of photos of the Alexander kit on test. The cab roof, chimney and dome are just perched there, but there is something satisfying seeing them in place. I'm going to try to keep the roof loose, perhaps with s touch of Blutack, to allow the cab interior to ne seen from time to time.

 

Meanwhile, Arthur's kit is progressing steadily with no more alarms yet.

[rowanj]

I'm slowly completing Arthur's chassis, to the extent that I have the trailing truck fixed and the chassis will go round 4th radius curves. The brake gear is detailed, and, although how much will be visible is a moot point, I am putting as much of it together as I can, if only to increase my so-so soldering skills.

 

I do have a query, however. My locos will be in 50's  BR, by which time the Westinghouse brakes were removed. However I am sure I have seen a reference, which I now cant find, which said that the air tank below the rear bunker were left in place, albeit unused. Arthur supplies a casting- Dave does not, but I'd like to fit the tank in both cases if this is correct for 1950's BR. Any advice gratefully received.

[rowanj]

This is the current state of the North Eastern Kits chassis. The fitting of parts is exemplary. There are many smaller detailed etches than the Alexander version and I had a go at all of them, though I don't think I got them all exactly right, especially on the brake cross shaft. But I hope the photos show that I now have a decent looking, rigid  and accurate chassis, upon which the footplate will sit correctly.

There were some posts earlier on the weird cut-out at the rear of the Alexander chassis, designed to allow the rear bogie to swivel round curves. This chassis is much more prototypical, which means that there is much less travel in the bogie. This took a lot of trial and error, and I'm afraid I couldn't get the chassis to reliably go round my test 4th radius curve - slightly tighter than what is actually on the layout. As I mentioned to a friend, on my next layout I am going to have a large railway room with the baseboards built by a joiner, trackwork laid professionally and may as well get someone in to do the electrics and build me a super-dooper control panel. However, in the real world, I resorted to skimming back the flanges on the centre drivers, and this seems to work. It now goes round the bends.

The wheels are Scalelink, who do a 18.45mm universal driving wheel. This is an odd size, but suspect it was a discovery by them that their intended 19mm came out too small. For me, this is fortuitous, as the N10 drivers are 4 ft 7 and a half inches.The motor/gearbox  is planned to be a Mashima 1220 with High Level Compact. I found , by trying a couple of gearboxes I had in stock from "scrapped" engines, that in every case either the axle worm or the gearbox etch fouled the front of the ashpan spacer. I should have checked this before assembling the chassis, as there is enough metal to remove some and still have enough to fit the ashpan.

 

 

[rowanj]

An odd thing I have just come across involved the coupling rods. There are 2 options,either rigid or jointed at the centre axle. In both cases,they are double thickness,created by simply folding them over into themselves. However the rigid ones which I use are not handed,,and so the fluted ends only got one side. I stared at them for ages wondering why I couldn't quarter the wheels,and assumed I had done something stupid, but not this time..I wonder if this was an error on an early etch which has since been corrected?

Either way,the remedy will be straightforward, using the jointed rods to form a new top layer in the more traditional way.

 

Not too easy to explain but the pictures should help. The top one shows the fluted rods- identical. The second shows the correct spacing- longer between centre and rear drivers, but to get this, one side would be plain and the other fluted.

Edited August 12, 2019 by rowanj

[rowanj]

It was simple enough to split one pair or the rigid rods and re-assemble them in the correct way, - just as one would have to do on most kits with  double etch rods. The oil boxes on the fluted pair were upside down , but there is still an impression from those on the rear etch.

 

So the wheels now revolve with the rods temporarily fitted, and the Compact gearbox and motor combination looks very neat. I'll need to cut part of the rear shaft when the cab is assembled.

[rowanj]

The Alexander N10 has progressed to the point where it really only needs the dummy front coupling, coal and a fireman. I think it should also have a "trident" on RH bunker rear for fire irons, but I forgot to add them - I'll do it later. The cab is far from perfect but now looks "busy" rather than the empty space Dave provided. I added washout plugs- spares from Arthur's kit- and the RH and LH sanding rods.

 

I have done a bit more on the North Eastern kit. the cab is basically finished as is the boiler/smokebox shell. The loco funs nicely in the form shown in the photo, so, hopefully, the rest is simply a question of adding detail. It is a wonderful kit- a credit to the designer, I wish I could lay my hands on one of his J73's.

 

Incidentally, I used PVA glue to glaze Dave's version. I have tried Crystal Glaze in the past nut it didn't work - obviously I did something wrong. However Wilko INTERIOR  wood glue worked a treat. No doubt other brands are available....

 

[rowanj]

69109 doing what it was designed for - a local goods trip.. Weathered using Tamiya powders, Modelmaster decals. It still needs a fireman, but is running well nevertheless.

 

The second kit has had its' chassis tested with the body in place and it too runs nicely. As I'm only fitting detailing parts, there is nothing useful to publish. The boiler is now finished bar handrails and washout plugs. The hole at the rear will need to be filled to take Ross  Pop valves and whistle. fitting the handrails properly to the tank fronts looks to be a bit fiddly. To make a change from 69109, Artur's kit will represent a loco which had vacuum brakes restored. I need to check an appropriate Tyneside number.

[rowanj]

Just as a reminder, this A2 is a DJH body "rescued" from the bottom draw, and matched to a set of Gibson frames which I ordered in error instead of those for an A5. I had most of the parts I thought I needed to get the chassis running, including a Mashima round can motor which I intended to fit to a Branchlines chassis. But I just couldn't get it all to fit, so chucked it (literally) into a box and moved on.

 

However, here we are again. I bought a couple of motors from Ebay to try out. 1 is obviously a small O Gauge, and I don't see an obvious way to get it to fit a gearbox, as the fixing screws are further apart than the Mashima standard. However the smaller but still substantial version does screw to a OO gearbox, albeit skewed. The smaller Mitsumi motors fit at the same angle. I have a good supply of these, but an A2 needs a bit more oomph.

 

Anyway, the photo shows the 1227 motor sitting in the A2 chassis. It runs smoothly, and is reasonably powerful, and is not too bad a bargain at £16.

 

[rowanj]

The A2 now has the valve gear fitted, cobbled together from Comet parts mainly from the A3/4. I took the opportunity to do some filling to the loco body. The space above the leading bogie wheel looks odd, 

The tender was from the GBL A2, and is a Bachmann clone, with authentic Doncaster rivets. It doesn't quite fit the tender chassis, so I need to check what is lifting it at the rear.

I have a superb photo of the loco with a blue Scottish region nameplate, and am inclined to get one for my model.

 

[rowanj]

The North Eastern Kits N10 heads for Tyneside with the Loco Coal. This is the kit to which I added the vacuum brake. 

These are really magnificent kits, A skilled builder can produce a truly outstanding model, and even an average modeller like me ends up with a perfectly fine "layout" loco. The kits contain lots of small details, and challenge the fingertips when soldering, but I tried to add as much as possible. How much is visible from normal viewing distance is a moot point. Arthur was always willing to help with any small issues I had, and I cant recommend his kits too highly.

 

As an aside, the Loco Coal is out because I have just obtained a couple of Ian Kirk LNER planked Loco Coal Wagons to augment the rake. These are basic kits but are suitable for my purposes. I assume Colin Ashby who took over this part of the Kirk range, has managed to produce a run of some of the kits.

[46256]

Nice work on the A2 motion John best wishes Brian

[rowanj]

The penultimate post. The A2 chassis is virtually complete, Pickups need fitted , as do draincocks- I'll use Hornby A4's. Neither of these should be an issue, but the question of brakes remains. I needed to build up the cylinder covers, as the A3 ones looked a bit puny.

 

As for the body, I need to find a pair of Wakefield lubricators for the LH footplate. I'll fit a dummy coupling, which I'll need to purchase, and a heating pipe to loco and tender. I'll also produce something to reduce the gap over the leading bogie wheel.

 

The tender body is the GBL clone supplied in Apple Green with "BRITISH RAILWAYS" and fully lined . I rubbed this down, did some real old-fashioned modelling on the moulded handrails and primed and painted. The BR green is Railmatch from a can, and the primer Halfords red. I prefer this, particularly for chassis and black locos, as it can show through at interesting places to represent rust. Modelmaster lining will complete the loco.

 

The next and last post should be the completed loco in service.

 

Edit. I think this looks a   bit better. I fitted the very prominent "mudguard" which was actually on the frames above all 4 bogie wheels, and a front step. So at least that horrible gap has gone. I'll trim the guard once the epoxy holding it has cured, and see how it looks with a coat of black paint.

 

John

Edited August 28, 2019 by rowanj
Added info

[rowanj]

Hornets Beauty running light to Tyneside. I then tested it on a 5-coach Edinburgh- Newcastle stopper and it ran well. It's still a bit "silk purse from sow's ear" but it will be an authentic addition to the stud.

 

I can't remember now why I picked Hornets Beauty- unless I happened to get the nameplate with the kit. One odd thing I found with this particular loco, was , when I came to fit the draincocks, I noticed that at some point they had been shortened , as with the A2/3's and A3's. It seems to be the only one in the class where this occurred.

 

Peter Coster remarks that this name was among the odder ones. I don't think it's too bad, bud wouldn't have thought so when one stung me twice at Norden Park and Ride on the Swanage Railway.....

 

I'll still build kits, and stick a few photos on the layout thread from time to time. I'm about to cut up a Bachmann J72 to produce the early short-bunker version on a mainly trains chassis, and have a Dave Alexander "Tyne Dock" kit to fit to an O1. 

 

Does anyone have the instructions for an SEF K3 chassis kit which they could copy for me? I "won" the kit, but the instructions are missing. I would be very appreciative.

 

Best wishes

 

John