Ixion O Gauge

[Andrew Young]

Well if we're talking 0-6-0 tender locos then I'd suggest a Midland 2F, quaint little things that were found in all sorts of places, including the Cambrian during the war!

 

Looking forward to receiving my Minerva Peckett, then waiting (and saving) patiently to find out what the two Chris's will tempt us with next....

 

Cheers,

Andrew

[Trains4U]

Well, that was our intention. You might also like the recently released Minerva 0 gauge RTR Peckett.

 

I'd certainly love to sell these.  Beautiful little locos and excellently modeled. - unfortunately they are direct supply only.

[The Nth Degree]

I'm currently testing my trade offer, Trains4U. You are on my list of retailers to approach already, but I'll be in touch in the new year. Feel free to message me directly here or email littlelococompany@gmail.com

[daifly]

'Confused' was suggesting a J21 tender loco, my reply was 0-6-0 not 0-6-0T! Question stands.

In that case, my money is on Lionheart producing a GWR/BR 2251. 

[two tone green]

In that case, my money is on Lionheart producing a GWR/BR 2251. 

 

You could well be right !

[81A Oldoak]

I've written before elsewhere that choosing UK prototypes for plastic 0 gauge mass production, as opposed to the specialist and expensive limited run metal RTR productions, is a difficult and risky business. The first question to ask is if 1,000 to 1,500 pieces can realistically be sold? That highlights the challenge of the UK market with its fragmented regional affiliations and prejudices, something Lenz does not have to worry about. A long life in service is also desirable. My guess based on the cost of locos produced to date and quotes received for wagons and vans is that it is probably possible to do a simple 0-6-0 tender engine to Ixion/Minerva standards without DCC for around £550-£600 provided the sales volume is achievable. I am open to offers of buy one for £100,000, get 999 free.

[Marshall5]

As Chris says the prototype for any mass produced model must be a loco which had a long life and wide geographical distribution.  Better still, surely. one where as many of the parts are common to other related classes.  For example the MR/LMS standard 8' x 8'6" wheelbase chassis on the 2F mentioned above would also be common to the 3F (tank and tender) and 4F.  Similarly on the GWR many of the panniers including the 57xx and 94xx had the same wheelbase and wheel dia. so could use a common chassis.  A manufacturer could thus release a 'new' model each without the expense of total re-tooling.  Just my 2p worth.

Ray.

[The Nth Degree]

I've written before elsewhere that choosing UK prototypes for plastic 0 gauge mass production, as opposed to the specialist and expensive limited run metal RTR productions, is a difficult and risky business. The first question to ask is if 1,000 to 1,500 pieces can realistically be sold? That highlights the challenge of the UK market with its fragmented regional affiliations and prejudices, something Lenz does not have to worry about. A long life in service is also desirable. My guess based on the cost of locos produced to date and quotes received for wagons and vans is that it is probably possible to do a simple 0-6-0 tender engine to Ixion/Minerva standards without DCC for around £550-£600 provided the sales volume is achievable. I am open to offers of buy one for £100,000, get 999 free.

I'll take you up on that offer Chris!

 

With a cost of £100k and a value of £600k I would only need to sell 167 to make a profit! Can I choose the prototype?

[MarcD]

The Midland 2F would have a number of pre grouping liveries Pre 1907 MR Red, Post 1907 MR Black, Pre 1910 S&DJR blue, 1910-1930 S&DJR black, M&GNR Ochre, 3 LMS Liveries, +3 BR liveries  

As a side they would have been seen all over the LMS system regardless of loans in both world wars

 

Marc

[Dreadnought05]

GWR 2251, SR Q1, Fowler 4F or a J15 would be nice.

 

Also question for Chris: would a kickstarter-type model influence you more for a Minerva-quality 0-6-0 tender?

[81A Oldoak]

As Chris says the prototype for any mass produced model must be a loco which had a long life and wide geographical distribution.  Better still, surely. one where as many of the parts are common to other related classes.  For example the MR/LMS standard 8' x 8'6" wheelbase chassis on the 2F mentioned above would also be common to the 3F (tank and tender) and 4F.  Similarly on the GWR many of the panniers including the 57xx and 94xx had the same wheelbase and wheel dia. so could use a common chassis.  A manufacturer could thus release a 'new' model each without the expense of total re-tooling.  Just my 2p worth.

Ray.

Ray,

Were life that simple, but it rarely is.  We got quite excited about the es-MSLR LNER J64 0-6-0T, which was a Hudswell Clarke with an identical wheelbase and wheel size to the contractors saddle-tank loco that we produced. Here, so we thought, was a chance to save on the cost of the chassis for a new model with a main line identity.  So I enlarged Iain Rice's drawings to 7mm scale, laid an Ixion chassis over the drawing and rather crudely drew around it. The result can be seen in the attached file. Leaving the drive where it was driving the centre meant the fly-wheel would have been visible in the cab, which is wholly unacceptable in 7mm scale. Moving the motor and gear would require new tooling so eliminating the chance of a shared cost. The extenbded length of thr chassis frames at both ends would probably have had to be done with mouldings under the footplate in what would be inelegant solution.  This is often the case. We have been asked many times to do the LMS/BR Ivatt 2-6-2T and 2-6-0 and I'm sure it would be a popular project, but one has only to look at Bachmann's offerings in 4mm scale to see that apart from commonality on the wheels, motion, chimney and other peripherals they are very different.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

 

Edited to attach the drawing.

J64 profile with HC ST chassis profile.pdf

[81A Oldoak]

GWR 2251, SR Q1, Fowler 4F or a J15 would be nice.

 

Also question for Chris: would a kickstarter-type model influence you more for a Minerva-quality 0-6-0 tender?

I've thought about it and watched with interest as others have tried and failed with this form of funding with consequential damage to an already tarnished reputation for failing to deliver. Firm orders for 500 pieces would probably be enough to get going, but I'm yet to be convinced. I believe the key principles to success for Ixion and Minerva have been 1) not trying to do too much at the same time and 2) ensuring the project is pre-funded.

[F-UnitMad]

The technology exists, does the demand? Who will be first with a Gauge 0 RTR 0-6-0 and what will it be?

Dava

Far too late - it was a 4F... done by Lima, circa 1970's

[Simond]

Well, couldn't decide whether to hit "agree" or "funny"...

 

Best

Simon

[Dava]

40 year old cheapo toys excluded, please!

 

Though I wonder if the Union Mills approach which works in N Gauge of a common tender drive and 0-6-0 chassis could be applied in 0 Gauge to a range of prototypes with similar wheelbase? Probably not.

 

Dava

[Simond]

If you're prepared to have the motor in the tender, a remote gearbox in the firebox and "prop shaft" drive could offer a degree of commonality across a range of locos. I'm not at all sure that it would be cheaper than a conventional chassis.

 

A really well engineered tender 6w drive system unit, perhaps capable of adaption to different wheelbases, and which doesn't spoil the side view (so no chain drive like the diesel bogies!) might be a way for a manufacturer to give themselves a solution for multiple locos. This might then allow moulded plastic chassis for the loco - indeed, moulded valve gear might also work - provided decent bearings and an appropriate choice of the plastic materials.

 

Now, if I had a spare £100k...

 

Season's Greetings!

Simon

[Poggy1165]

I can't help but think that once you go past industrials (which practically everyone can find a home for) the going gets a lot tougher. There are few 'iconic' small locos and one of them (the Brighton terrier) has already been done. Given the peculiarities of the model railway fraternity, something like a P2 or a Big Bertha would probably sell more than something 'sensible' like a 3F, J11, SR  Q or 22xx. 

 

Something that can be wheeled out in a variety of liveries seems a good bet (like the Terrier) but I wouldn't like to stake £100k of my money on any particular prototype, unless I was very rich indeed.

[The Nth Degree]

I don't want to disappoint, but a tender loco is going to cost a lot more than £100k – I think Chris was using that more as an arbitrary figure than an accurate one. My fairly simple diesel is costing more than that and it'll only be 3/4 the size of a tender loco. With tooling being a significant proportion of the cost, you're going to carve out a pretty big lump of steel, not to mention 12 wheels instead of six and two items to paint and probably line.

 

You're going to need a bigger wallet.

[Simond]

I've been telling my boss that for years...

 

Cheers

Simon

[F-UnitMad]

My fairly simple diesel is costing more than that and it'll only be 3/4 the size of a tender loco....

Oh bother... it's not a Class 22, then

[Night Train]

A B4 would be rather nice.

[Hesperus]

The problem with adapting a chassis that has been designed for a loco such as the HC or Terrier is that a good design will have used all of the space available.  If a chassis was designed to fit under a variety of different bodies it wouldn't be as pure a design but could be done.

 

The problem that we have here is that while this could lead to a manufacturer having a stock chassis it wouldn't be up to Ixion standards.  The basic diecast box with the motors and gears in would need to be a small unit possibly like an 0-6-0 SPUD with an etched overlay behind the wheels to convey the differences between locos.  The wheels and rods are possibly the same betwwen 2F/3F/4F but if the wheelbase matched would they be right for a pannier tank or J21?

 

I lack scratchbuilding skills so the odd mm here and there is the least of my problems when adapting a chassis but I can't see the rest of you being too keen if a manfacturer started acting like Triang-Hornby and plonking any body they liked on a stock chassis.  It's fine for Union Mills because in N scale there is far less detail to be wrong.

 

 

Also, is the first 0-6-0 of the modern rtr era the Dapol 08?

[The Bigbee Line]

It's difficult to make something 'Universal'. In the 50s there were kits built around the Tri-ang Princess Chassis, even a Bullied Pacific. Probably not acceptable now.

However pre-grouping there were some locomotive families. The Drummond family being one. (The Far North line utilises this asset).

One suggestion would be an 0-6-0 (700 class) or a small 4-4-0 with 6 wheeled tender. Possible utilisation of the footplate / running gear / tender for people wanting to 'bash' out something else. The time span would be from build to late 50's / early 60's, with branch line trains etc.....

[Simond]

GJC was rather good at standardisation too, as noted above, but the GW is already well served, I guess.

 

It'll be interesting to see if parts of the forthcoming Heljan large prairie find their way into other locos. I went to an interesting IMechE lecture about the "Night Owls" a few months back at London Underground HQ, where Paul Carpenter outlined just how much of other classes could be reused in the real thing. Details at http://www.4709.org.uk/index.html

 

Returning to modelling, I could imagine the Heljan model donating wheels, cylinders, rods, pony truck, front footplate & buffer beam, sv cover, chimney and cab fittings. In some ways, it's a shame they didn't do the Mogul rather than the Prairie, as that would have provided a tender too, and I suspect it's easier to get from the Mogul to the Prairie than vice versa.

 

Wait & see!

Simon

[NeilHB]

Something small and four wheeled, perhaps an Avonside would be nice (Trojan at Didcot is rather nice...hint hint); but I'm fairly confident that whatever Minerva/Ixion produce next will be excellent as always and no doubt one will find its way onto Elsbridge Wharf...looking forward to Kettering now to see what is announced.