Scotland Street

[Astir648]

That's all looking very good, David, thanks for the update. I think the setts look just fine, I don't see that they would have been any better if you had carved them. It's very easy to get carried away in any scale, but most people end up with far too much relief on brickwork, slates, paving, roads etc even in O Gauge. If you look at real tarmac, paving, bricks and so on there is remarkably little relief as pointing is usually brought pretty flush and tarmac is rolled flat. After all, a quarter of an inch in our scale is only 0.15mm, so the temptation with Das or whatever is to go carving away and end up with a caricature of the real thing.

 

John

Thanks John. That's an interesting point. It's easy to over-emphasise the thing we are focusing on and I guess reining that in is an important modelling skill.

 

Before I got back into 7mm scale I built some GN15 (G scale on OO track) models based on Rowland Emmet's excellent 1940's railway cartoons. I scratch-built some buildings to go with rolling stock kits by Smallbrook Studios and used scribed polyfilla to represent brickson a signal box. I massively over-did it, just as you describe. My first thought was that it was awful....But  when set in context it looked great. Why? Because the models represented cartoons, which are all about over-emphasis!

[MarshLane]

Hi David,

Looks superb!  Really coming on now, and the stone setts work really well in my view.  Eagerly following

 

Rich

[Astir648]

Hi David,

Looks superb!  Really coming on now, and the stone setts work really well in my view.  Eagerly following

 

Rich

 

Thanks Rich :-)

[toffee]

Hi David,

 

Only found this gem last night and have eagerly speed read through it on the iPad at 7am. I'm looking to do something similar in 7ft x 1ft so I'm always looking for cleaver ideas ! I've already thought ' why not put it on the wall, it's only 1ft across? ' as I've got a bit hung up with trestles too low and too wide. Can I ask if the baseboard is fixed to the wall in any way or just mounted on top of your workbench ? I've just been looking at some IKEA shelves and there are possibilities I think. It's looking very good so far, love the stone setts. :-)

 

John.

[Astir648]

Hi David,

 

Only found this gem last night and have eagerly speed read through it on the iPad at 7am. I'm looking to do something similar in 7ft x 1ft so I'm always looking for cleaver ideas ! I've already thought ' why not put it on the wall, it's only 1ft across? ' as I've got a bit hung up with trestles too low and too wide. Can I ask if the baseboard is fixed to the wall in any way or just mounted on top of your workbench ? I've just been looking at some IKEA shelves and there are possibilities I think. It's looking very good so far, love the stone setts. :-)

 

John.

 

Hello John.

 

Thanks for your comments - very much appreciated!

 

The baseboard itself is completely independent. Two separate 4'  x 1' boards would have been better, but there is simply too much point-work over the join so my board is 8' x 1'.

 

I have two Ikea 4' x 2' tables side by side, which act as a desk / workbench. I have added 6" extension pieces at the rear and 1" deep shelves sit on top of vertical supports, whichare attached to the tables and the main railway board sits on top of them. The fiddle yard sits on a separate shelf unit alongside the right-hand desk. You can see what I mean in the picture below.

 

 

The problem with doing it this way is that furniture is only as true as the floor it sits on and our floor turned out to be far from flat (despite the house being only 15 years old). The shelf unit sits at a slightly different angle to the floor compared to the tables. As a result the fiddle yard board has to be chocked slightly to line it up with the main baseboard.

 

You could certainly wall-mount your railway as a shelf, but having the baseboard sitting on top of a separate shelf will give you the flexibility to move it to a more convenient location to work on.

 

By the way the lights you can see in the picture are attached to the shelves, but are temporary. I'll attach them to the backboard once it's in place.

 

Good luck, and be sure to tell us how it goes!

 

David

Edited June 25, 2016 by Astir648

[toffee]

Hi David,

Thanks for the info on how you did it and the very clear photo of how it all fits together. I was looking on the IKEA site and found this

 

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S59047699/

 

I like the idea of a couple of drawers underneath a baseboard, two of these side by side and not reliant on the dodgy floors that we seem to frequently have might work for some folks ? I'll go to my local shop and have a look, I could just have plain shelves, further investigation is needed. Anyway I've taken up far to much space on my ramblings.

ps I presume you've seen the pictures of the new Heljan 7mm D25xx ? It would fit in so well in front of that tunnel mouth !

 

John.

[Astir648]

Hi David,

Thanks for the info on how you did it and the very clear photo of how it all fits together. I was looking on the IKEA site and found this

 

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S59047699/

 

I like the idea of a couple of drawers underneath a baseboard, two of these side by side and not reliant on the dodgy floors that we seem to frequently have might work for some folks ? I'll go to my local shop and have a look, I could just have plain shelves, further investigation is needed. Anyway I've taken up far to much space on my ramblings.

ps I presume you've seen the pictures of the new Heljan 7mm D25xx ? It would fit in so well in front of that tunnel mouth !

 

John.

 

John,

 

That's a great idea and works very well. By chance Ben Coupe (my partner's eldest) is working on a rather nice minimum space brewery layout in 4mm finescale (his home-built track puts me to shame!) and he has built something much like that - see below. He's pretty handy at carpentry, so he built the drawers himself, using runners bought from B&Q. 

 

 

Oh there are so many shunters that could look nice! a Judith Edge Class 06 would be nice. And how about a JLTRT Clayton bringing a few wagons in...

 

David

[Astir648]

I've managed to squeeze in quite a bit of progress over the last few days, so I'm feeling pretty smug with myself!

 

First up was a coal staithe to sit in front of the coalyard office. This is a single staithe and not desperately big either, but it has to fit into the available space. I get round this by remembering (a) that the coalyard extends out of sight behind the office, where there could be more staithes and (b) the layout is set in the early 1970's, when coal tended to be shovelled straight from the railway wagon into sacks. This was the last gaps of the small railway coal-yard with large distrubution yards rapidly coming into being.

 

I used a Modern Motive Power kit. Probably overkill, but I really liked it! Upright girders are soldered up from three etched brass parts and the sleepers are formed from stripwood, cut to length and then inserted in a little etched brass jig to score the edges of the chair marks and poke in the bolt holes with a needle. As with all MMP stuff it's very time-consuming but yet satisfying and producing a good end result.

 

 

The MMP coal staithe kit

 

 

The jig for forming chair marks and holes in the sleepers

 

After painting I filled the space within the staithe with dark grey foam, carved into a coal-heap sort of shape and then piled on some Woodland Scenics coarse cinders ballast, which I think looks nothing like coarse cinders but makes a good representation of house coal. This was glued in place with dilute copydex plus a drop of washing up liquid, ballast style. Despite it being on a steep slope I found it stayed in place with care.

 

 

The staithes with foam in place...

 

 

...and with coal added.

 

Next I have attached the backscene. This is one of those jobs that should have been quick and easy but ended up a little more involved, mostly because I had cut the two end pieces 1.5cm too wide. I have absolutely no idea how I managed to do that! Anyway, a little trimming of the hardboard and cutting and moving of the timber frame and it was ready to put on. I've screwed the three board to the baseboard and to each other with plenty of screws. The idea is that it effectively becomes part of the baseboard and provides additional strength and rigidity and that seems to have worked. Of course this would add massive weight to a bigger layout, but at this size it's still manageable.

 

 

The backscene attached to the baseboard at last.

 

 

A rear view, showing the frames behind the hardboard backscenes

 

 

The right-hand end of the board, showing Rona's fantastic paint job with two of the building in the foreground

 

 

The left-hand end of the layout. There are still lower structures to go in place, so a little undercoat is still visible, but the effect can still be judged. Now I have the backscene fully attached I can fix the buildings properly in place and start adding more details and weathering.

 

Whilst I had the layout out I took the opportunity to photograph the electrics from below. The pic shows the Cobalt slow-cation point motors, which work ok, but seem a little sticky and are incredibly noisy! You can also see the servo and control board for the signal. That reminds me - I must get on with the shunting signal, which will also be motorised.

 

Finally I have built a small relay board to allow me to better control the isolating sections from a distance. DCC purists will wonder why, but I much prefer sodlering complex looms of wire to programming widgets. Must be something to do with my ham radio background (though that's old computerised these days too!)

 

 

The underside of the board.

 

 

The relay board

 

So that's a good chunk of progress. I still need to finish the control box which will allow me to move the layout around (up til now the connections to point levers, controller etc have been routed around the desk and even attached in places). After that, it'll be sleeper fences and adding scaled photos of Edinburgh buildings to the backscene.

 

Onwards and upwards.

 

David

[Astir648]

I thought it might be interesting to illustrate how I plan to add buildings to the backdrop. My idea is use photos of real Edinburgh buildings, scaled to the right size for where they sit in the landscape and stick them onto the backscene. The hard part is finding pictures which are flat and don't show perspective. We've tired taking our own but it isn't easy to get into the right position. Ideally you need to be half the height of the building, directly in front and locations that fit the bill aren't common. Happily Edinburgh tenements are common as muck, so if we keep searching we should get enough. I'll also add Salisbury Crags on Arthurs Seat in the background behind the bonded warehouse, as they were behind the original building at St Leonards.

 

 

This is a mock-up of what I have in mind. The parapet is unpainted and temporarily in place and the picture has a slightly odd perspective, as well as being too bright - the final pic I use here will be printed darker and hopefully have a flatter prespective. (Sorry about the picture being on it's side - the original isn't!)

 

 

Here's the original Scotland Street tunnel, with the parapet and tenements behind 

 

 

And here's the bonded warehouse at St. Leonards, with Salisbury Crags looming behind (this is after the track was lifted)

 

David

Edited July 11, 2016 by Astir648

[Astir648]

I haven't done much work on rolling stock recently (aside from stockpiling kits - there are now six wagon kits sitting on the shelf) so, as I'm waiting for some scenic and control bits and pieces to be delivered I thought I'd dust off the soldering iron and make a little progress with the MMP open wagon kit. "A little" is the right phrase! These kits have such an incredible level of detail and accuracy that progress is always slow. But if you take your time and read the instructions carefully they deliver fantastic results, even for an at best average modeller like me!

 

So two evenings work has delivered two springs...yes just two springs! But they work   So now I have a rolling chassis with fully functional leaf springs, together with sprung buffers and couplings. Just need the brakes and body...so it won't be finished just yet as I want to finish rationalising the electrics on the layout and dealing with the next stages of scenery.

 

 

 

I'm doing a talk about the layout and the yards it's based on in a couple of weeks at the recently-formed Tweeddale MRS, which should lead to some interesting discussions.

 

Onwards and upwards...

 

David

[Fastdax]

So two evenings work has delivered two springs...yes just two springs! But they work

 

Hi David,

 

How much force is required to compress the springs? Will a normally-weighted wagon (1g per mm of length) make the springs operate or will it run "rigid"?

 

I have an MMP mineral wagon in the queue and I'm wondering whether the real leaf springs are just a gimmick ...

 

Thanks,

Duncan

[Astir648]

Hi David,

 

How much force is required to compress the springs? Will a normally-weighted wagon (1g per mm of length) make the springs operate or will it run "rigid"?

 

I have an MMP mineral wagon in the queue and I'm wondering whether the real leaf springs are just a gimmick ...

 

Thanks,

Duncan

 

Hi Duncan.

 

Having just changed car I firmly believe that one man's gimmick s another man's excellent innovation. However the kit instructions actually address this issue by referring to "the great Danish modeller Erik Olsen" and points the reader to Erik's website www.modelbaneteknik.dk/index-e.htm. He builds all his O gauge (1:45) wagons with leaf springs and reckons at least 250g of weight is necessary to make the springs on a 4-wheeled wagon function properly.

 

The chassis weighs 61g and it takes a fair bit of finger pressure to move the springs. When I added 205g of weight on top it appeared to run rather nicely,  but how much of that is due to the springs and how much to the weight removing any minor twists in the chassis I don't know (the body appears to provide rigidity to the chassis). I suspect the added weight generates realism in itself. On a shunting layout like Scotland Street heavy wagons aren't an issue for locomotives but perhaps a prototypical length train of these wagons might be a challenge to haul?

 

MMP also make the valid point that "real" springs also look much better than castings and I agree. However I don't yet know how apparent that difference will be once the wagon is painted.

 

I suspect there will be others on here with more knowledge about this than me.

 

David

[Astir648]

Time for an update methinks.

 

I've been quiet recently as I've been focusing on changing the electrics, which isn't very exciting as the actual controls and layout haven't changed, just the way they are connected together and how power is supplied to different aspects. This is to allow a clean divorce between the layout and my desk, so it can go walkabout if needed...possibly to a future exhibition. All in all it's been a big and slow piece of work, and very frustrating as it feels as though the layout hasn't moved forward at all.

 

 

To cheer myself up about the lack of visible progress I decided to invest in a Grainge and Hodder free-standing console for the controls. I've never used their products before, but they seem to be rated well by those who have. I have to say I was quite impressed. The thin ply structure is astonishingly light, yet very strong once pinned and glued together. Two small pieces were missing, but after an email to G & H they arrived in the following morning's post. I suspect laser-cutting of sheet materials probably sits alongside 3D printing to form a big part of the future of the hobby. I know where my next baseboards are coming from.

 

 

My other time consuming, non-progress thing was a talk at the recently-formed Tweeddale Railway Society. I did a presentation about Scotland Street, covering the history of the yards inspiring it and the layout itself. I rabbited on (with many pictures) for an hour and a half without anyone noticeably falling asleep. Feedback on the layout was very encouraging, though the consensus on the Ixion Fowler was that it is hideous! Not the model, I hasten to add - it's quality and accessibillty was admired - it's just an odd-looking locomotive! I feel lucky to be in at the beginning of a new model railway club, especially as there is a preponderance of O gauge enthusiasts and a lot of experience and enthusiasm in just a few people.

 

Returning to the layout I'd like to add a yard crane to the goods platform. The goods platform at Scotland Street definitely had one, though I don't have a 1960's picture to show what state it was in by the end. I imagine it would be derelict. I've acquired a Mike's Models whitemetal kit, which looks to be pretty good. My problem now is that I need a prototype derelict hand crane and Google isn't very forthcoming! The best I've found is the one from Glencorse station goods yard. As it happens I used to live a few hundred yards from there, so I know it well. The site is now a small park and the crane pedestal has been retained as a feature (though there's nothing to explain what it is). I could copy that, but I'd like some of the dilapidated mechanism if possible, rather than just the pedestal. Does anyone have any prototype pics of a knackered yard crane?

 

 

 

As a change from the layout I'm having a go at building a BR 12 ton van from a Slaters kit - Scotland Street urgently needs more vans. I've never used one of Slater's kits before and so far it seems well-designed. All looks to fit together well and the buffers are excellent. Any tips from experienced Slaters kit-builders gratefully received.

 

Onwards and upwards.

 

David

[daifly]

A Google search on 'Railway hand crane' Images gives a few to be going on with.

Dave

[Simond]

I'm the gloomy recesses of my mind, I have a picture of a classic yard crane at Boston Lodge on the FR.

 

Google reveals me to be not quite unhinged, but sadly, no picture...

 

Best

Simon

[Astir648]

A Google search on 'Railway hand crane' Images gives a few to be going on with.

Dave

 

It's remarkable how many hand crane pictures are actually of wagon-mounted cranes, which I didn't know was a thing, but your suggested search terms bring up a few interesting pics. Many of them are international, but potentially inspiring nonetheless.

 

This one is pretty much complete except for the winch cable, which makes me wonder if that was common? They were obviously built like the proverbial brick cludgie (outside lavatory to you southerners) so maybe my search for one falling to bits isn't finding results because they stayed largely intact until the scrapman removed them?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/23885771@N03/14167124932

 

This one is actually in Australia, but the bush growing through it seems a good way of showing that an intact machine is in fact derelect.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/imagegallery/4024603873/in/gallery-elsie-72157629301646438/

 

David

[Marshall5]

Re - your Slater's 12 t van David.  I can't dig mine out at the moment but I've built several and enjoyed doing so.  Much better quality/value and instructions than the JLRT version who can't even get the buffer spacing correct. There were no real problems but on the last one i did I left off the microstrip on some of the underframe (it forms the bottom of the 'I' beam) as I think it fouled the brake hangars later on. Sorry to be vague but you might want to check when you get to that stage. IIRC the instruction tell you to put the cast lamp bracket on the RHS of the coupling but it should be on the LHS.  Hope you enjoy your build.

Ray.

[Astir648]

Re - your Slater's 12 t van David.  I can't dig mine out at the moment but I've built several and enjoyed doing so.  Much better quality/value and instructions than the JLRT version who can't even get the buffer spacing correct. There were no real problems but on the last one i did I left off the microstrip on some of the underframe (it forms the bottom of the 'I' beam) as I think it fouled the brake hangars later on. Sorry to be vague but you might want to check when you get to that stage. IIRC the instruction tell you to put the cast lamp bracket on the RHS of the coupling but it should be on the LHS.  Hope you enjoy your build.

Ray.

 

Thanks Ray.

 

As it happens the microstrip bit is next. It seems a little superfluous - Once the wagon is finished and painted I'd be surprised if the difference between flat bar and I-beams in the underframe would be at all noticeable.

 

I put the body sides onto it last night and I can't recall any other plastic kit of any sort with parts fitting so well together :-)

 

David

[81A Oldoak]

Thanks Ray.

 

As it happens the microstrip bit is next. It seems a little superfluous - Once the wagon is finished and painted I'd be surprised if the difference between flat bar and I-beams in the underframe would be at all noticeable.

 

I put the body sides onto it last night and I can't recall any other plastic kit of any sort with parts fitting so well together :-)

 

David

I  never bother to fit the microstrip to the under-framing, preferring to keep it for other more useful and visible purposes.

[Astir648]

I  never bother to fit the microstrip to the under-framing, preferring to keep it for other more useful and visible purposes.

 

I agree. There's always good uses to be found for microstrip!

[Astir648]

The downside to working from home is that  when I have an office day the layout and whatever I'm currently working in is in full view and near at hand, which requires a lot of will-power - not something I have much of! So yesterday, after six boring hours of preparing reports, invoices and other tedious stuff I broke free and built the embankment for the rear of the railway.

 

The plan is to have a small enbankment full of rubbish, tall grass, Buddlea and all the other stuff that accumulates on out of the way railway embankments. It will have a sleeper fence at the rear and beyond that will be the back of a typical Edinburgh tenement block (whether that will be a photograph or made from Redutex etc remains to be seen). It will gradually slope down from the kiln building on the right to the coalyard on the left. A retaining wall at the right-hand end will hopefully create the impression that the sloping ground was dug out for the kiln building.

 

So that was the excuse for a happy afternoon playing with the sort of messy stuff us grown-ups don't normally get to play with. I'd carved the base shape from closed-cell foam and then to provide the surface I used plaster bandage - what fun 

I read somewhere that a good way to avoid the glaring whiteness if the surface of plaster bandage is damaged is to add dark poster paint to the water you use to wet the bandage. All I had to hand was a mid grey, which hasn't really darkened it as much as I wanted, but at least it's reduced the persil whiteness a bit.

 

I mounted the foam on a piece of angle aluminium I had lying around in order to keep it square. That way I can build up the scatter, static grass, seafoam etc on the bench and put it in place when it's finished.

 

 

David

Edited August 11, 2016 by Astir648

[Astir648]

I spent today helping my OH with a trade stand for the plant nursery at the Peebles Agricultural Show. It took two tractor tows just to get her car into the show ground. Think festival-type mud in vast quantities and that was my day, so some wagon dabbling was the perfect antidote this evening.

 

 

Inspired by Ray and Chris I've been working on the first of two Slater's box wagon kits and really enjoying it. It goes together so nicely and rapidly. I do enjoy etched brass and especially Modern Motive Power stuff, but they really are a long slow process, so quick results make a great change.

 

 

I also have a nice new piece of plate glass, to help ensure models are built square. It cost £20 delivered on eBay, intended for lapping. I've no idea what lapping is, but presumably dancing isn't involved...or is it?

 

Being plastic the Slater's wagon needs some added weight. The wagon itself is about 65g, so I've added 80g of lead (cut from a sheet of lead I acquired from a friendly roofer), glued inside, to get to 145g, which from what I've read seems around right. I'm not too worried if it's a little over - locos on Scotland Street never have to cope with more than 4 or 5 wagons, so they're never going to struggle!

 

 

There's only one thing I don't like about this kit, but I'm British by heaven, and complaining is what we do best. The brake hanger thingies (sorry - I'm not sure what they're called - the U-shaped structure that seems to support/protect the brake linkages?) are about half a mm thick, so are going to be challenging to work with at the best of times, but they're moulded in pairs in incredibly close proximity, making it very hard to get them off the fret in one piece and even harder to clean up. If I had some thin brass strip to hand I'd have fabricated something better. I did think about using microstrip but it would have been awfully fiddly, so in the end I stuck with what was supplied, slightly knobbly edges and all.

 

 

David

 

PS It turns out UHU does NOT stick lead to plastic. I wonder if Araldite is the solution. I might try roughening the surface of the lead too.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Astir648

[John R Smith]

Hello David

 

Those thingies are the brake gear safety loops and the Slaters ones are dreadful, as you say, moulded far too close together and covered in flash. I didn't use them on the kits I have built, but bent up some new ones from brass strip. Otherwise I found the kits so far pretty good but watch out for droopy buffers because the castings for the housings are not square to the mounting flange.

 

Also be very careful what adhesive you use for the lead ballast - some glues can in time eat through and distort the plastic floor. I've used double-sided tape which is probably safe.

 

John

[Astir648]

Hello David

 

Those thingies are the brake gear safety loops and the Slaters ones are dreadful, as you say, moulded far too close together and covered in flash. I didn't use them on the kits I have built, but bent up some new ones from brass strip. Otherwise I found the kits so far pretty good but watch out for droopy buffers because the castings for the housings are not square to the mounting flange.

 

Also be very careful what adhesive you use for the lead ballast - some glues can in time eat through and distort the plastic floor. I've used double-sided tape which is probably safe.

 

John

 

Hi John. 

 

Brake gear safety loops duly added to my railway lexicon!

 

That's alarming about adhesives - I've always worked on the principle of testing a material/adhesive mix for 24 hours before use, but long-term break- down of a material could be an almighty pain the backside. Double-sided tape makes good sense as it sticks mechanically rather than affecting the glued material.

 

Did you brace the sides on yours? They seem a bit thin and flexible so a stout bracer seems a good idea.

 

David

[Astir648]

PS - John, I just looked at your profile and realised that Goonamarth was your layout. I came across the thread about it when I first joined RMWeb and was blown away by it - it's a great example of what can be done in a large scale within a small space...and in Gauge 1! The level of detail is very impressive.

 

David