Scotland Street

[Simond]

Not tried it but there is this link too

 

http://www.jpennyltd.co.uk/shopping/pgm-more_information.php?id=37

 

It's (k)not cheap - sorry - but I have no idea how far a litre of shellac solution goes. Quite a large model, I imagine.

 

Best

Simon

[BG John]

There are lots of shellac flakes in all sorts of flavours and pack sizes on eBay, but I've no idea which is most suitable, although it might be worth trying one of the small packs to start with.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=shellac+flakes

 

That's why I bought something ready made to get started with, and if it goes well (when I eventually get round to trying it), I may give some of them a try.

[Dave Elbourne]

Hi David, I spotted this topic today and just had to join in. Great work so far and I'm so surprised that the "detailed scale model" of Scotland Street still exists. I built this as an exhibition layout in 4mm "finescale" OO. I did compromise it a little to make it more entertaining for exhibitions, but the yard trackplan was followed as closely as possible as you just could not make it up and keep it believable! I scratch-built the track (pcb sleepers and SMP rail) and bult the turnouts to the correct angles and lengths. I formed the unique tunnel mouth stonework from plastikard on plywood, using photos and measurements I took on-site when it was still a semi-derelict hole in the ground. Good luck with the project and I shall watch your progress with interest, Dave Elbourne

[Astir648]

Hi Dave

 

Thanks for your comments and really interesting to hear from someone who has already been there, so to speak! Of course my model is nothing like as faithful as your was, being the bastard offspring of Scotland Street and St Leonards, squeezed onto a shunting plank!

 

David

[Astir648]

A busy couple of weeks with work, family visits etc, but I've managed to squeeze in some progress.

 

Firstly the bonded warehouse now has platforms, canopies, doors and a luccam. The slates are next and I think after looking at all the options I'm going to give card slates a go and see how I get on. I've done a small test with dark grey card and the effect is reasonably good, so I'll see how it looks on a larger scale. The platforms look a little spindly and could use some bracing timbers. 

 

The platforms and canopies are made from balsa, which is a material I quite enjoy working with. The doors are resin, made by Highland Castings. 

 

 

The questions as to how goods were hoisted through the canopy roof into the luccam was answered with the help of a magnifying glass - the luccam floor is built onto the roof of the canopy, so I've modelled it that way. The picture I have of the luccam makes it unclear if the window was barred. I've modelled it unbarred, but I'm not convinced it looks realistic that way.

 

No sooner had I finished making the platforms than my partner's eldest son Ben arrived with a copy of Harry Knox's new book on St Margaret's shed. This wonderful book has several pictures of both yards which I haven't seen before, including a clear view of the left-hand platform and canopy. The platform in view seems quite slim and is supported by what look like cast iron legs, possibly attached to the walls and curving out to the front near the top, to support the front of the platform. Also the canopy is utterly different from the right-hand one, looking more like a station canopy. Presumably they were erected at different times. I may return and change these aspects in due course, but for now I'll carry on.

 

Other news concerns traction and rolling stock. I discovered the Ixion Fowler has a lit oil lamp! It had never worked and it was only when I looked at the spec on-line I realised it should. When I opened it up I found a tiny (5mm x10mm) pcb under the lamp, retained by a plastic clip. The board had been fitted upside down so that the surface mount LED was facing downwards. It was the work of a moment to turn it the other way up and now I have a working lamp. 

 

The Heljan Class 40, which was never going to be of any use on this layout has gone and has been replaced by a  Heljan Class 20, which is more appropriate. It's a nice model but needs a delicate hand to drive accurately. I assume this is because of it's weight but I have to say that the Fowler is a much nicer engine to drive. I have also replaced my old H&M Controller with a Gaugemaster PO simulation controller. I'm still getting used to using it as it seems to need rather more finesse and patience than the H&M!

 

 

I've also invested in a Lionheart 16t mineral wagon. I feel slightly guilty as that's three RTR models and the whole point of this layout is to provide a focus for building my own locomotives and stock. I've a couple of kits in progress (MMP Class 08 & MMP 16t mineral wagon) and a couple more in need of painting, so once I've made more progress on the layout I'll get back to them, but in the meantime I need something to play with!

 

 

David

[81A Oldoak]

Good [progress. Plenty of scope for dirt and filth in due course.

[Astir648]

Well here I was, thinking I was being original in using a timber over-bridge building in a distillery as a scenic break. I should have known better - the latest edition of the GOG Gazette has an article about John Hollansd's delightful Loch End Light Railway, with a very similar feature.

 

Although John's layout has a rural Highland setting the article includes a picture of this feature which pretty much sums up how I hope this end of my layout will look, with the track hemmed in by tall, grey, grim industrial buildings.

 

As Scotland Street has an urban 1970s setting it should end up a lot grimmer and greyer than the distillery in Loch End. At present everything on Scotland Street is clean and bright so some serious weathering will be needed in due course!

Edited February 14, 2016 by Astir648

[muddys-blues]

Hi David, I have been following this thread with interest .... my only input at this moment in time is don't feel guilty about using RTR, as you say you have been busy with other commitments, and I always think anything that helps the time efficiency can only be a bonus, anyway you have to throw some crap at the RTR stock now so don't feel to bad about.

 

Loving this project.

 

Happy modelling

Craig.

[Astir648]

Hi Craig.

 

Thanks for that. Railway modelling is a hobby: we do it for pleasure and yet we create rules for ourselves and hem ourselves in with them, so that can become harder to enjoy the hobby. Of course the rules are what allow us to challenge ourselves, achieve better results and gain pride in what we do, but I guess sometimes it's important to know when it's best to bend or changes the rules, rather than allow them to get in the way.

 

I'll make the most of my RTR models!

 

David

[Astir648]

A successful afternoon of making and sticking slates has got me half way through roofing the bonded warehouse. I'm using dark grey 270gsm card (380 microns thick), which is spot on for both thickness and basic colour. I've decided against shellacking as I don't want it too hard as I'll need to smooth off the edges a bit.

 

The card is cut into strips 9mm wide and then slit half-way across every 7mm to create the individual slates, but leaving them as a strip. I found it impossible to align individually cut slates with sufficient accuracy. 

 

 

Before sticking down the slates are distressed by nicking corners, expanding gaps between slates, removing an occasional one altogether or cutting one to make it appear to have slipped. The result is a reasonable representation of a Scots slate roof, which has seen plenty of gales blowing off the Firth of Forth.

 

 

I'm using narrow (12mm) heavy duty double-sided tape to stick them down. The tape is used between each course, as well as between the slates and the substrate (plasticard). I found if I didn't do this the slates tended to have unrealistic gaps between courses.

 

 

The overlap is around 3mm - Scots slates are usually smaller than Welsh ones and consequently have a smaller overlap.

 

 

The edges are a little sharp. Hopefully when I paint it (probably mostly drybrushing as the card colour is fairly close to the prototype) I'll be able to soften the angles a bit. I'm sure it's not the best 7mm scale slate roof, but I think it'll do!

 

[Simond]

David,

 

I think you can be proud of that.

 

If you want to "soften" the edges, perhaps one of those brass wire brushes sold for cleaning suede might do the trick?

 

It's got atmosphere already!

 

Best

Simon

[Fastdax]

 I've a couple of kits in progress (MMP Class 08 & MMP 16t mineral wagon) and a couple more in need of painting, so once I've made more progress on the layout I'll get back to them, but in the meantime I need something to play with!

 

Please keep us up to date as these builds progress. I also have an MMP 08 and 16t mineral waiting to be built for Offerston Quay and any prior experience is worth its weight!

 

Duncan

[Astir648]

Thanks for the comments.

 

Duncan - I'm planning to return to the two MMP models within the next month or two, once I have the layout well on the way. I'll keep you posted!

 

I was unsure about the idea of softening the slates with a wire brush Simon, as I thought it might tease out the fibres in the card and make it look fluffy, so I made a test piece and had a play, using a fibreglass pencil. This works very well. The fibres removed from the card are short and it doesn't seem to go fluffy, but the edges are very nicely softened. There is also a useful by-product. The distressing of the slates allows occasional glints of the double-sided slate to show through. The card fibres released by brushing drop into these places and stick to the tape, rendering them invisible.

 

Original slates on the left, scrubbed with a fibreglass pencil on the right

 

Despite the welcome distraction of showing the railway to my partner's small nephew and showing him that his Hornby train set is just a beginning I've made more progress with the slating and am almost at the luccam.

 

 

To represent the leadwork in the valley there I have folded and glued a strip of card to each side and painted it dark grey. Once the slates are finished I'll do something similar with the apex of the main roof and the luccam roof, but painted light grey to represent galvanised tin capping.

 

 

Onwards and upwards!

 

David

Edited February 16, 2016 by Astir648

[Simond]

David, the distressed slates do look better to my eye, but they do appear very slightly "hairy".

 

I'd hope this will disappear when you start to add a little moss, lichen & soot!

 

Best

Simon

[John R Smith]

Hello David

 

I think your card slates are looking very good, and most folks would be satisfied with them without any further distressing. I think that the use of the fibreglass pen might have been a little more successful if the card had firstly been shellacked, but that's just me.

 

Just a word of warning (as a thought just struck me) - do not be tempted to apply some shellac retrospectively to the laid slates! The alcohol in the shellac will dissolve the adhesive on your double-sided tape, and things could get very messy . . .

 

John

[ffayolle]

Nice project!!!

Thanks for sharing

[Dave Elbourne]

Hi David, I think the roof slate treatment looks great. In close-up the softer edges are a definite improvement on the "newly-cut". From a normal viewing distance the roof as a whole will take on the look you are after and weathering will enhance it further. I find it all too easy to be misled by hours spent with it right under your nose, when you will never view it this way normally. I find the same with weathering, it can look awful and over-the-top in close up,(especially in photographs) but looks good in a normal viewing distance context. Take a step back, and enjoy! Dave

[Les Johnson]

just caught up with this David. Looking really good so far. I've used exactly the same technique on my Arbroath shed roof.(see below)

I can also remember the original Scotland Street layout and very good it was too. One of my favourites from tho old days. I don't know whether it was EM or not but certainly had the appearance of fine scale.

Les

[Astir648]

Progress continues...

 

Thanks for the comments on the roofing slates. After much thinking (in my case more THUNKing!)  I've decided to go with softening the card slates with a fibre pencil. Dave is right about viewing distance being a significant thing. As Scotland Street sits on a shelf above my desk the closest comfortable viewing distance for the warehouse is about 2-3 feet away, so the slight furring is not visible. Arbroath shed looks very good, which is also reassuring! Did you apply weathering over the card Les?

 

So the slates on the warehouse are now complete, apart from brushing with the fibre pencil.

 

 

Next will be the addition of the galvanised capping. This is usually made from thin metal, bent around a 3 inch diameter wooden pole, to create a cross section like an inverted "V" with the point stretched to create a small 270 degree (give or take, depending on roof pitch) semicircle. This is held in place with clips (see below). I'm, going to experiment with laying thin plasticard over a brass rod and applying heat, unless anyone has any suggestions? I haven't seen this sort of material available commercially (?).

 

 

Whilst the slate-making bug was still biting I carried on and made the roof for the over-bridge building (surely there's a better name for this type of building?). I've chosen to make this less distressed, which speeds up slate manufacture and as this is essentially a large rectangle, with no dormers cut into lit, progress was very quick and finished in about a day. This building has a clerestory-style ventilator at the apex of the roof, to add to the fun, I fabricated the vents from plasticard, added more plasticard to create a box shape behind it. I then fabricated a separate small pitched roof for the ventilator, which will be slated and then glued on top.

 

I still need to paint the interior of the ventilator black and put a back on it to keep light out, as well as painting the slats blue.

 

 

The main roof for the overbridge building, with slates in place

 

 

The vent slats

 

 

Box added at the rear

 

 

Roof structure for the ventilator (the real thing will of course be all one structure but it was more convenient to model two structures and glue together when ready)

 

 

The overbridge building with roof and ventilator in place, just waiting for the ventilator roof.

 

Onwards and upwards...

 

David

[Les Johnson]

just caught up with this David. Looking really good so far. I've used exactly the same technique on my Arbroath shed roof.(see below)

I can also remember the original Scotland Street layout and very good it was too. One of my favourites from tho old days. I don't know whether it was EM or not but certainly had the appearance of fine scale.

Les

Progress continues...

 

Thanks for the comments on the roofing slates. After much thinking (in my case more THUNKing!)  I've decided to go with softening the card slates with a fibre pencil. Dave is right about viewing distance being a significant thing. As Scotland Street sits on a shelf above my desk the closest comfortable viewing distance for the warehouse is about 2-3 feet away, so the slight furring is not visible. Arbroath shed looks very good, which is also reassuring! Did you apply weathering?

 

David

No weathering yet. I think the colour looks OK so maybe just a touch of dry brushing or powders. I don't know what gauge/thickness my paper was, and I also use PVA to stick them down onto a thicker card base, maybe that's why some of them look uneven. That needs attention, also I haven't fitted ridge tiles yet! I haven't distressed them as much as you cause I thought maybe they would have been looked after better in the late 40's?

[raymw]

 

This is held in place with clips (see below). I'm, going to experiment with laying thin plasticard over a brass rod and applying heat, unless anyone has any suggestions? I haven't seen this sort of material available commercially (?).

Instead of plasticard, maybe use a suitable grade of aluminium foil, pie cases come to mind...

[Simond]

and if you need something to wash down the pies, a little thicker, you could try the lead from the tops of wine bottles

 

best

Simon

[Dave Elbourne]

just caught up with this David. Looking really good so far. I've used exactly the same technique on my Arbroath shed roof.(see below)

I can also remember the original Scotland Street layout and very good it was too. One of my favourites from tho old days. I don't know whether it was EM or not but certainly had the appearance of fine scale.

Les

Scotland Street (the 4mm one of old) was "finescale" OO. I used the old (by then, defunct)  BRMSB wheel and track standards measurements (culled from old Railway Modeller magazines) as I was using Romford wheels on the locos. The running reliability of the stock improved many-fold when I changed all the wheels for Jackson (now Romford/Jackson or Markits? maybe). Again proving what the P4 exponents were trying to indoctrinate all of us with "only matching wheel and track standards work properly". Even in (or probably especially in) coarser scale/gauge combinations.

[Ian Smeeton]

The door in the gate would be a Judas Gate

 

Hope that this helps,

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Astir648]

Thanks as ever for all the comments/thoughts/ideas. I must add judas gate to luccam in my list of newly-acquired architectural terms! Just to prove I'm not a complete architectural numpty (good Scots word that), and to show why I'm so particular about Scots slate roofs, here's a pic I took this week on my day job - a lead crevice built into a newly-repaired slate roof, to provide homes for Pipistrelle bats. Built by an expert roofer I hasten to add, I'm just the hassle-causer who instructs the work.

 

 

I've been quiet for a few days as I've been hard at work, partly with the sort of work that gets in the way of interesting stuff but pays the bills and partly with making progress on the over-bridge building.

 

Here's a reminder of what the prototype building at an Edinburgh brewery looks like:

 

 

This has brought some interesting challenges as it is a timber building with a LOT of metal-framed windows, of many and various sizes and shapes! There was nothing for it but to get to work with styrene strip and make them from scratch. I used 1x1.5mm for the main frames and 0,75 x 0.5mm for the dividing frames. I wasn't sure how strong they would be with the styrene simply butt-jointed and glued with liquid poly, but they turned out to be surprisingly robust. I guess this is the advantage of a glue which welds, rather than sticks.

 

 

After painting I glued them to transparent styrene sheet with canopy glue. I used a whole sheet, to act as a base for the front wall of the building, which I then glued onto the foam-board carcass.

 

 

I also painted a few windows on the inside to represent the boarded up windows apparent on the prototype. There is actually a step between the two floors, so the upper sheet of styrene is mounted on thin balsa, to bring it forwards. I used Slaters 4mm planked sheet for the timbered parts and balsa for the large pillars (or whatever they are) which run down the front of the building.

 

 

A coat of acrylic paint and it's looking fairly good, but quite a bit of fettling is still needed. The paint is too light in colour - it should be more like the clerestory roof, so I need to mix up some more paint for another coat. I'll get my other half to do it this time - she has "form" when it comes to art, whereas I never took it seriously at school, so mixing paint accurately is close to witchcraft so far as I can see.

 

 

The roofs of this building and the bonded warehouse still need the apex capping added, so I need to do a little experimenting, sort out a method I'm happy with and get it done. 

 

I also need to add guttering and downpipes. I got some very nice whitemetal down-pipes from Invertrains, but I've yet to see some round guttering I like the look of, so all suggestions ar welcome on that front.

 

There's also a little of the foam-board visible through some of the windows from certain angles, so I need to take a razor-blade to the interior to carve these bits out.

 

I'm now dabbling with corrugated iron, either for a shed in the coal-yard or maybe a lean-to at the front of the layout, below the over-bridge building. Right now I'm taking a break from cutting realistic-sized sheets of wriggly tin from plasticard sheets.

 

 

David

 

PS You have to love a spell-checker that queries "fettling" but accepts "numpty" 

Edited March 6, 2016 by Astir648