RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted January 8, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2017 My feeling from reading too many books on PO wagons is that in South Wales black was by far the most common, whereas in the Yorkshire and Lancashire coalfield red oxide was much more popular. Then though there is the question of shaded or unshaded lettering - black ones were usually unshaded white (though some were shaded red, but shaded lettering was much more common grey and red oxide wagons. The smaller owners were often the ones who chose more unusual colours. On the basis that your layout is presumably set in the south east of England it might be worth getting a look at the recent book on PO wagons in the south east from Black Dwarf Lightmoor. Highly recommended when reviewed, though rather expensive to buy just for inspiration for a fictitious wagon owner. http://lightmoor.co.uk/books/private-owner-wagons-of-the-south-east/L8961 No connection and it is one of the few books on PO wagons I don't own. Jonathan 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 As I've said elsewhere before, I think we get ourselves into far too much of a fuss about colours, especially for wagons. The paint was probably mixed from pigment each day and so no two batches would be exactly the same. The only colours the 'high heid yins' bothered about was the colour of the top link locos. Wagons were just being painted to protect the wood. In addition the colour was altered in service by the effects of the smoky, sulphurous, and in the case of coal wagons, coal dust filled, environment they worked in. In any case, whose to tell you the colour is wrong!? Jim 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted January 8, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2017 That's a very good point. Thanks Jim. Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted January 8, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2017 So, the day has been conspiring against me and it doesn't look like I will get the transfers started today. However I am in good stead to get them under way. Just a thought I had, would anyone on here be interested in a tutorial into how I make them?? Gary 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Midland Mole Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Just a thought I had, would anyone on here be interested in a tutorial into how I make them?? I would as I feel I need to try something like that myself sometime. - Alex 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted January 8, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) Gary, I would be interested in a tutorial. There are now all, or most of the Cambrian transfers I could want but there are still plenty of others I could do. I have managed to check and Mikkel recommends Humbrol 100, Red Brown for GWR red wagons. Further to Caley Jim's comment about colour, there was a long, long discussion on RMEMag about colour, which included, perception, scale colour, etc., etc., etc. Someone had asked a couple of old railwaymen the exact mix of paint for the wagons they painted. The reply, which was a bit incredulous apparently was along the lines of, "We chucked in two shovel fulls of one pigment and one of another, added the oil(?) and that was it. The bosses did not care about the colour of the wagons. (Apologies to Jim if he said it somewhere on RMWeb.) Edit: I think I must have been wrong about it being Mikkel recommending Humbrol 100. (It has been a bad weekend.) However what I do know is that someone recommended it. Edited January 8, 2017 by ChrisN Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted January 8, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2017 I would be interested too as Rhymney transfers are hardly available any more (not at all if Dragon Models has run out). And I still have quite a few Nantcwmdu Coal Co wagons to letter. Jonathan 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted January 8, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2017 Well it looks like I had best do a tutorial. I have taken some pictures of the preparations I have done. Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 9, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2017 Gary, I would be interested in a tutorial. There are now all, or most of the Cambrian transfers I could want but there are still plenty of others I could do. I have managed to check and Mikkel recommends Humbrol 100, Red Brown for GWR red wagons. Further to Caley Jim's comment about colour, there was a long, long discussion on RMEMag about colour, which included, perception, scale colour, etc., etc., etc. Someone had asked a couple of old railwaymen the exact mix of paint for the wagons they painted. The reply, which was a bit incredulous apparently was along the lines of, "We chucked in two shovel fulls of one pigment and one of another, added the oil(?) and that was it. The bosses did not care about the colour of the wagons. (Apologies to Jim if he said it somewhere on RMWeb.) Edit: I think I must have been wrong about it being Mikkel recommending Humbrol 100. (It has been a bad weekend.) However what I do know is that someone recommended it. I used Humbrol 100 but have come to feel it's not really red enough - red oxide rather than red lead, which should be, well, redder... There are several discussions of colour on my wagon building thread, with links to other discussions of GW red. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbcompound Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I used Humbrol 100 but have come to feel it's not really red enough - red oxide rather than red lead, which should be, well, redder... There are several discussions of colour on my wagon building thread, with links to other discussions of GW red. I agree with this. I started off thinking the colour should be brownish, but now think it is decidedly red. Here is a picture of some red lead which helped sway me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted January 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2017 I used Humbrol 100 but have come to feel it's not really red enough - red oxide rather than red lead, which should be, well, redder... There are several discussions of colour on my wagon building thread, with links to other discussions of GW red. Humble apologies. It was your thread that I read it on. When I quote information I have gathered I like to quote where it has come from, and obviously got it wrong. I have read the discussion on red as I am reading through your thread, slowly as if I spend too much time on RMWeb I never get any modelling done. However, I have slept since then and all I remember is that I needed to buy another Humbrol, paint, which I did but then had to go and check the number. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted January 10, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2017 All this talk about paint and I forgot to have a look while I was in the model shop earlier. I did however manage to get filler and primer on the Manning Wardle, in fact I have painted the chassis but I'm not ready t show you yet! So firstly a shot of the engine in primer from in front: and from behind: I have also added as much weight as possible under the tank: and in the coal space: This has brought the weight quite a lot, the loco is up to ~130g now which is about ~30g more than an r-t-r Terrier so although I would like a bit more I am happy with it. Gary 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Midland Mole Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 More progress, goody gumdrops - Alex 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted January 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2017 Gary, A bit of filler and primer has done wonders, just needs some crew. Thinking of which the fireman will need a short shovel, won't he? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted January 10, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2017 Thanks Chris, Yes he will need a very short shovel indeed. I was thinking of getting some of Andrew Stadden's new Edwardian loco crew, the ones that look like they have been in a nasty accident, as then the white metal can add a bit more weight. Gary 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted January 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2017 Thanks Chris, Yes he will need a very short shovel indeed. I was thinking of getting some of Andrew Stadden's new Edwardian loco crew, the ones that look like they have been in a nasty accident, as then the white metal can add a bit more weight. Gary They are actually pewter. I was thinking the same as you could have the fireman shovelling coal from the front bunker, not something that is often modelled. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted January 10, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2017 Pewter will do lol. I do like the idea of having the fireman shovelling from the front bunker. Gary 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesg Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I hadn't come across the A. Stadden range of figures, but they look very realistic and well proportioned (at least, the ones cast in one piece). Adding weight to move the centre of mass over the driving wheels will help make a good electrical contact. Are you looking to fit a decoder to the Manning Wardle? I have an old Hornby pannier tank with an SSPP chassis similar to yours, it runs fine but converting it required the removal of some of the chassis block where the electrical contact on the motor sits. Looking forward to seeing the top coat - I don't think you mentioned the colour, keeping us in suspense? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted January 11, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) The Andrew Stadden range is good, possibly the best for the Edwardian era. Yes I will be fitting a decoder to the Manning Wardle I have a 6-pin Gaugemaster socket and decoder with it already planned out for fitting. I will be completely replacing the pickups and electrics, if you look at my earlier tutorial on refurbishing the X.04 (here) you will see I added extra insulation to isolate the motor from the chassis for this reason, at this stage I am more worried about shorting on the body and how I go about isolating it. I would be very interested in seeing what you did to the pannier. You are quite right about me not mentioning the colour, it has indeed been kept quiet on purpose, you should only have a couple of weeks to wait until it is finished and revealed. Gary Edit: added link to X.04 Tutorial Edited January 11, 2017 by BlueLightning 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Simplest way to provide insulation in any situation is to cut a piece of tissue paper to cover the area concerned, put it in place and then flood it with cyano. Leave it for a few minutes for the glue to set and then trim off any excess with a sharp scalpel. I've used this technique to insulate the inside of splashers in 2mm. Thin and unobtrusive. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted January 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2017 Thanks Jim, Quick and easy, just what I like. That is what I shall do. Gary 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesg Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Thanks for the tutorial on the X.04 motor. Every time I look at one I think what a fantastic design it was at a time when Tri-ang didn't have many options available in terms of finding an off-the-shelf motor. I fetched an old Hornby gronk which is fitted with an X.04 and found that it runs better than the type 7 motor in the pannier, despite being about 15 years older. About paint colours on private owner wagons - I once asked about GWR dark grey applied to most goods vehicles not fitted for use in passenger trains - a paint supplier advised that the colour varied between depots, so any dark grey that looks 'about right' would be appropriate to replicate the GWR goods livery. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted January 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2017 The X.04 is a great motor, I would fit it to everything if I could. If you change the magnet for one of the Neodymium magnets I use you can get slow running to match most modern loco, and even better on DCC!! and a fun fact that doesn't seem overly well known, the X.04 was originally developed for use focusing the cameras in the reconnaissance Spitfires during WW2. Gary 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 The X.04 is a great motor, I would fit it to everything if I could. If you change the magnet for one of the Neodymium magnets I use you can get slow running to match most modern loco, and even better on DCC!! and a fun fact that doesn't seem overly well known, the X.04 was originally developed for use focusing the cameras in the reconnaissance Spitfires during WW2. Gary I was about to mention the Spitfire connection! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 What was the gear train and mechanism for moving the lens like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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