Derekstuart Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 The short 'key' with the Peco offering is more akin to the modern spring clips rather than wooden key. I was thinking of chopping the extended keys from C&L chairs, but decided that I would die of boredom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2016 The short 'key' with the Peco offering is more akin to the modern spring clips rather than wooden key. I was thinking of chopping the extended keys from C&L chairs, but decided that I would die of boredom. Hi Derek, Spring steel keys should have daylight showing them -- difficult to model. I have a photo somewhere showing a length of track with low evening sunlight shining through the keys. I will try to find it. Note that check rails always have solid wooden keys, not spring steel. Martin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 The short 'key' with the Peco offering is more akin to the modern spring clips rather than wooden key. I was thinking of chopping the extended keys from C&L chairs, but decided that I would die of boredom. Yes, but you could sell them to someone on Ebay who wanted to glue them on to their Peco BH track BTW, the modified flat-bottom rail probably helps to make the inside jaw on the chairs a bit more robust. The challenge there is to have enough clearance for the wheel flanges without making the jaw too weak. The lower profile rail foot allows for a bit more "meat" on the inside jaw. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Thanks Martin. I think the chances of moulding spring clips that accurately in 1:76.2 is very unlikely- the solid depiction by Peco is probably as close as you will get. You have mentioned not using spring clips in check rail chairs before. It does not seem to apply to many preservation railways though who are ignoring that rule. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I have a photo somewhere showing a length of track with low evening sunlight shining through the keys. I will try to find it. Off topic, I might be able set up a shot like that with 3D printed track. The outside jaw does not intrude into the rail channel at all, although, unlike the prototype, the jaw is actually in contact with the rail head. I made it that way so that someone can insert wooden or steel keys if they feel up to it. (Another bare-faced lie! I made it that way because it was the only way I could hold the rail at a consistent angle.) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2016 You have mentioned not using spring clips in check rail chairs before. It does not seem to apply to many preservation railways though who are ignoring that rule. I don't know about "many", but yes, there was a topic on here recently about one such. But Network Rail know what they are doing: More photos on this page -- all spring steel keys apart from the wooden keys for the check rails: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59971-good-news-from-riverside/ Martin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 and so did wsr or maybe it was Somerset &Dorset Railway Trust at Washford, (at least for this bit...) 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) I've found quite a few photos on google of spring keys used inappropriately (maybe all just on one or two railways though). I know our local preserved siding pretending to be a railway has got it right. That not-work rail photo shows wood on the check side and spring on the running rail- is that allowed or were you being sarcastic about them doing it right? Aside from that, another very interesting shade of timber to experiment with... new timber that isn't creosoted and is a sort of grey colour. Interesting. Anyway, I'm dragging you off topic. Apologies. Edited January 30, 2016 by Derekstuart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I've found quite a few photos on google of spring keys used inappropriately (maybe all just on one or two railways though). I know our local preserved siding pretending to be a railway has got it right. That not-work rail photo shows wood on the check side and spring on the running rail- is that allowed or were you being sarcastic about them doing it right? Aside from that, another very interesting shade of timber to experiment with... new timber that isn't creosoted and is a sort of grey colour. Interesting. Anyway, I'm dragging you off topic. Apologies. I believe NR is doing it right. The wooden keys are less compressible than the springs and that ensures that the check rail can do it's job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2016 That not-work rail photo shows wood on the check side and spring on the running rail- is that allowed That's fine. The running rail isn't subject to the side loading of the check rail. Note also the check rail is always vertical, whereas the running rail is inclined at 1:20. What's perhaps interesting in that picture is that the check rail is fitted with spacer blocks and bolts, but still has to have solid keys. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 What's perhaps interesting in that picture is that the check rail is fitted with spacer blocks and bolts, but still has to have solid keys. I noticed that. I may have to go into rehab Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Hmph. I know who I blame for my obsession with learning about track... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I looked in on the thread hoping to find some intelligent discussion about the new track being launched. Some hope! Know what you mean but you got to admit it's quite funny in a very sad way ........... What makes me laugh is if these ' peter perfect' track people ever got it anything like the 'real thing' the loco's would not run very well as there would be a current collection problem ......have you seen how uneven some of the rail head's are especially on branch lines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Martin, are you sure that they were always vertical? I seem to recall that NER check rails were inclined in towards the running rail. I know there were NER components still in North Yorkshire until at least the mid/late 90's and even now NYMR has some NER chaired turnouts (South, up sidings at Goathland as one example). Of course you might well mean just contemporary turnouts.(why have the feeling that I have just thrown petrol onto a fire...?) That's fine. The running rail isn't subject to the side loading of the check rail. Note also the check rail is always vertical, whereas the running rail is inclined at 1:20. What's perhaps interesting in that picture is that the check rail is fitted with spacer blocks and bolts, but still has to have solid keys. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I can't agree with that. One is quite adept at making uneven track (I do claim that it is deliberate of course). Model trains without suspension will fare no better or no worse than real trains if devoid of suspension. Know what you mean but you got to admit it's quite funny in a very sad way ........... What makes me laugh is if these ' peter perfect' track people ever got it anything like the 'real thing' the loco's would not run very well as there would be a current collection problem ......have you seen how uneven some of the rail head's are especially on branch lines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2016 are you sure that they were always vertical? I seem to recall that NER check rails were inclined in towards the running rail. I know there were NER components still in North Yorkshire until at least the mid/late 90's and even now NYMR has some NER chaired turnouts (South, up sidings at Goathland as one example). Hi Derek, Yes, I've seen pre-grouping drawings with inclined check rails. If you look at old drawings of anything you can find practices which fell out of use or would now be considered bad practice. With an inclined check rail you are going to get more rapid wear of the checking face, and it won't hold the correct check gauge for long. Leading to more frequent maintenance and replacement. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I'll pop back to this thread when the track is available and there is actually a physical product to talk about. All this prototype chatter about keys, chairs and other such stuff is of little interest to all, I suspect, but a few of you. At long last we have a better looking OO track. Is it perfect? I couldn't care less, it's far better than what went before. That'll do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2016 I will just pop in to 3,297 topics on RMweb on subjects which don't interest me, to say so. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I'll pop back to this thread when the track is available and there is actually a physical product to talk about. All this prototype chatter about keys, chairs and other such stuff is of little interest to all, I suspect, but a few of you. At long last we have a better looking OO track. Is it perfect? I couldn't care less, it's far better than what went before. That'll do. Better looking 00 gauge track has been available for some time, admittedly the base has for most of the time been very thin until now where C+L are selling a thick base product. It being sold out gives a clue to its popularity. What Peco will do is make this product more available to most through its network of retailers and I guess cheaper. Both of which is to be welcomed by modellers I will look on with interest to see if those who want better looking track back up their talk with hard cash, which many have failed to do so far. If they do I guess Peco will introduce turnouts and crossings to match. A bit ironic Peco started out with 00 gauge parts 50 + years ago and hopefully will be producing an integrated 00 gauge track system in the near future A big thumbs up for Peco, good to see a positive reaction to customer requests 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I will just pop in to 3,297 topics on RMweb on subjects which don't interest me, to say so. Martin. Morning Martin Are we allowed to jest so early on a Saturday morning, you will have the more sombre choking on their corn flakes 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I will just pop in to 3,297 topics on RMweb on subjects which don't interest me, to say so. Martin. I find the discussion fascinating and I look forward to your returning to continue it when you've done that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted January 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2016 Know what you mean but you got to admit it's quite funny in a very sad way ........... What makes me laugh is if these ' peter perfect' track people ........ Why are some modellers rude and insulting to fellow modellers? I just don't get it. It's a hobby and common interest for goodness sake. We all have our own 'specialities' and varying levels of ability and expectations. Live and let live. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted January 30, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2016 Some of the comments might have been funny. In the hands of a decent comedian (comic timing doesn't come across well on an RMWeb thread - perhaps that is why I am not laughing) and if they were being posted for the first time. I am not against humour. I have some myself and I use it sometimes. It just seems a shame that what should be an interesting thread on a major new product is being swamped by page after page of exactly the same sort of comments that got the previous OO track thread locked. Back on topic. I recall that C & L explained their lack of keys when they launched their flexible track. They said that they had tried to incorporate them but the shape of a decent key on each chair made it difficult to form a mould that the plastic base could be extracted from easily and reliably. That was a while ago and maybe moulding technology has moved on but it might explain why there is a "stump" of a key rather than a full one on the Peco product. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Sorry tbg but I cannot agree with you there. Much of this thread, unlike previous scale track threads has been informative and good humoured, until now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) It just seems a shame that what should be an interesting thread on a major new product is being swamped by page after page of exactly the same sort of comments that got the previous OO track thread locked. I have to keep reminding myself that when we longer-term members joined RMweb, it was a 'Railway Modellers' website and I think we had to conduct ourselves in that mode or risk being moderated. It hasn't been that way for years and we have to adapt. Edited January 30, 2016 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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