RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted January 30, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2016 Sorry tbg but I cannot agree with you there. Much of this thread, unlike previous scale track threads has been informative and good humoured, until now. It does seem to have got itself back on track. Permanent Way based Humour. I knew I could do it if I tried! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 It just seems a shame that what should be an interesting thread on a major new product is being swamped by page after page of exactly the same sort of comments that got the previous OO track thread locked. I think we should accept things that are not important to us may be to others, I just tend to skip over replies that do not interest me as it keeps the blood pressure low The other thread got locked due to a few close minded posters being rude, I personally would lock their accounts rather than the thread. But then I am not a moderator Just enjoy the parts you like and skip over those you don't 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dube Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 If there's enough interest peco will consider making points ! yes let them know larger more realistic points without a kink in the switch rail etc they would sell loads Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfsboy Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Can we change the subject to cows please? I need an udder topic to get peoples indignation juices flowing and probably the whole thread banned . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 If there's enough interest peco will consider making points ! yes let them know larger more realistic points without a kink in the switch rail etc they would sell loads I think many of us would like to see that. But, if reliability, ease of installation and cost remain key factors, I doubt this will happen. Both from my experience and from those with a technical bent on this and other threads, there are dangers. There are already single blade turnouts available on the market, most of which are relatively expensive or very expensive. The one such RTR type I have used is the Tillig, large radius point. It is beautiful to look at (despite being HO) but it is very fragile and much more intolerant of slam dunk point motors. It needs more careful installation, the use of more expensive point motors and, reportedly, suffers more failures. I had to scrap one (out of just four) on my last layout, and two others had to be regularly re-adjusted. I have not had a single Peco point failure and never had to re-adjust any of them ( a few are getting on for 20 years old). I have found that, with suitable weathering and some minor tweaks, it is very possible to disguise the hinge of the blade on Peco points, from a normal viewing distance anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Don't forget there is always the "Manage Ignore Prefs" in your profile. Don't forget there is always the "Manage Ignore Prefs" in your profile. Hello! Anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 amazed that none of the longer standing commentators haven't just packed up and headed out of here but no they continue to hang on in there with some of the jibes........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 If a manufacturer were to make track with wooden keys, there would be arguments discussions that they protruded too much, were all the same length, the wrong colour, and whatever, and half the folk would lay the track 'wrong way round... In manufacturing, there has to be compromise, a balance of the price folk will pay, market size, whatever, and folk sit at a different place at that table. For me C&L points are expensive, for what they are, if I'm buying, but a reasonable price if I was selling, and maybe too cheap if I had to make them - and they are still a compromise. Peco will produce something that looks better than their current pointwork, but due to the necessity of producing for a larger market, for folk with perhaps 'less finesse', it will be more 'robust', than C&L, but 'better looking' than current Peco. The investment in tooling, will be quite high for pointwork, and they will trade off realism, cost, quantity needed. Whatever they come up with will most likely be a similar price to existing, and still folk will be moaning, because it is not exactly what they want - all part of the rich fabric of life . Best wishes, Ray 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted January 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2016 I think many of us would like to see that. But, if reliability, ease of installation and cost remain key factors, I doubt this will happen. Both from my experience and from those with a technical bent on this and other threads, there are dangers. There are already single blade turnouts available on the market, most of which are relatively expensive or very expensive. The one such RTR type I have used is the Tillig, large radius point. It is beautiful to look at (despite being HO) but it is very fragile and much more intolerant of slam dunk point motors. It needs more careful installation, the use of more expensive point motors and, reportedly, suffers more failures. I had to scrap one (out of just four) on my last layout, and two others had to be regularly re-adjusted. I have not had a single Peco point failure and never had to re-adjust any of them ( a few are getting on for 20 years old). I have found that, with suitable weathering and some minor tweaks, it is very possible to disguise the hinge of the blade on Peco points, from a normal viewing distance anyway. I have used Tillig points as well. Their biggest weakness is the tie bar. It is simply too thin and fragile. The hole in it is too small for both tortoise and DCC point motor wires. I have broken two of the during cleaning of track. when the cloth or track cleaning rubber has snagged on the wire sticking up through the tie bar being a bit too high. I have now gone over to attaching the point motors to the bit that sticks out of the side of the point which is incidentally also thicker than the part in the middle of the point, and therefore easier to make a larger hole in without wrecking the thing. I am just about to start a new layout and was torn between Tillig track and homemade points and CL flex track. Now there suddenly seems to be a third option It all depends on the points that must surely be about to be released. I'm not sure that anyone from Peco is reading this thread. if I were them I think I would probably have given up and decided to go into some less controversial like solving the Arab - Israeli conflict. But Mr Peco, if you are listening them please give us an idea of what the points are going to be like. I’m sure that there are a lot of people who like me want to buy your track, but need to know whether we can use it with points that satisfy us. I await with baited breath to see if I can couple Peco Code75 bulkhead to Tillig code 83 pointwork as a compromise. It might be an idea for Peco to sell/ distribute short 4’’ lengths of the track so that we can try matching it to our existing track systems 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) Given what they. PECO , have tried to do with the bullhead offering, I fully expect they will improve the look of the points as well, maybe removing some of the visual clangers like the switch blades and the plastic check rail.. If they can do that and retain their legendary robustness , I think that will be great. I suspect , in order to differentiate this product line, they will make visual changes in the forthcoming point work, I would be surprised if they just duplicated the current H0 point work into 00. Dave Edited January 30, 2016 by Junctionmad 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(W) Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I've read through this thread and find most of it constructive and informative. But nobody, thankfully, seems to have raised the question of two- or three-bolt chairs. Just sayin'... Whatever the froth, I'd simply like to give a big thumbs-up and a hearty thank-you to Peco. Cheers, BR(W). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2016 Elsewhere Richard Johnson of DCC Concepts has been responding to Peco's announcement. His comments tend to confirm that he is still intending to introduce ready-to-use 00 pointwork, short of actually announcing it. http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=27283&view=findpost&p=433634http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=27283&view=findpost&p=433682http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=27283&view=findpost&p=434010 You may notice that the discussion is getting bad-tempered on there. Martin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 You may notice that the discussion is getting bad-tempered on there. Martin. I can't believe it Martin, a thread on a model railway forum about 00 track getting fractious?, surely not. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2016 If a manufacturer were to make track with wooden keys, there would be arguments discussions that they protruded too much, were all the same length, the wrong colour, and whatever, and half the folk would lay the track 'wrong way round... In manufacturing, there has to be compromise, a balance of the price folk will pay, market size, whatever, and folk sit at a different place at that table. For me C&L points are expensive, for what they are, if I'm buying, but a reasonable price if I was selling, and maybe too cheap if I had to make them - and they are still a compromise. Peco will produce something that looks better than their current pointwork, but due to the necessity of producing for a larger market, for folk with perhaps 'less finesse', it will be more 'robust', than C&L, but 'better looking' than current Peco. The investment in tooling, will be quite high for pointwork, and they will trade off realism, cost, quantity needed. Whatever they come up with will most likely be a similar price to existing, and still folk will be moaning, because it is not exactly what they want - all part of the rich fabric of life . Best wishes, Ray On single lines, the direction of the keys alternated.............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 On single lines, the direction of the keys alternated.............. On the single-line branch near my parents' house (the Llanelly and Mynydd Mawr), a lot of keys were omitted, to give a bit of 'gauge-widening' when the 68ers (Class 37) were introduced in 1965. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) Mystic Meg tried to get me to cross her palm with silver in Rhyl but I told I didn't need to......... The British Model Railway Awards manufacturer of 2016 :- Peco for it's 00 gauge bullhead track and points. Edited January 30, 2016 by coachmann 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul W Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 On the single-line branch near my parents' house (the Llanelly and Mynydd Mawr), a lot of keys were omitted, to give a bit of 'gauge-widening' when the 68ers (Class 37) were introduced in 1965. Oh no........do we all have our hard hats near by ........first there was gauge narrowing ....now gauge widening .............run for the shelters and lock up your daughters....... Please Mr moderators don't lock this thread, they will behave, honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 30, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2016 On single lines, the direction of the keys alternated.............. Thus, would bi directional lines have similar arrangements? Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Thus, would bi directional lines have similar arrangements? Phil Only if they married...... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2016 On the single-line branch near my parents' house (the Llanelly and Mynydd Mawr), a lot of keys were omitted, to give a bit of 'gauge-widening' when the 68ers (Class 37) were introduced in 1965. We need a "cringe" button. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 There's something wrong with those pictures: they don't have that funny shaped sleeper at the diverging end of the turnouts. They do now. Also made some small adjustments. As before print the pdf with no scaling for actual size. Once again, pure speculation on my part. Small radius - predicted v2.pdf 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) Thus, would bi directional lines have similar arrangements? I made a detailed reply about keying practice recently, here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107548-chairs-keys-and-long-walks/&do=findComment&comment=2179691 I hesitate to copy it into this topic, because folks here think getting track details right is a joke. My question is -- why bother which chimney you fit on a locomotive, they all look the same? Here we go anyway: It is important to prevent a rail creeping through the chairs, because it causes the essential expansion gap at the rail joint to close up. There is then a risk that the rail will buckle when it expands in hot weather. The general creep of rails is in the same direction as the direction of traffic. On double track the tapered chair keys are therefore driven into the chairs in this direction, and any rail creep will tend to tighten them in the chairs. Note that this means the direction in which the keys are driven (hammered) into the chair. The result is that the thick end of the key remains protruding from the chair pointing in the opposite direction. The reason the rails move in the direction of travel is because of the way the rails flex under load and get pushed forward by the wheels. It is similar to what happens when rolling pastry -- the whole mass moves forward on the board in the direction in which it is being rolled. However, there are sometimes situations where rails are found to move backwards -- for example on the inside rail of sharp curves and on steep rising gradients. If a situation is found where the keys frequently work loose, some or all of them will be turned round and driven in the opposite direction. On single lines or where traffic is bi-directional, the usual rule of thumb is to drive the keys "towards the joint, towards the station, towards the river". That means on level track between stations the keys are driven into the chairs towards the nearer of the two rail joints in each rail length. Approaching a station, where trains are braking or accelerating, most keys are driven towards the station. On steep gradients, most keys are driven downhill. But on any track, on the chairs immediately adjacent to a fishplate at a rail joint, the keys are driven in towards the fishplate, because it is physically impossible to fit them the other way. Just to repeat, the thick end of the key remains protruding from the chair in the opposite direction to the direction in which the key is driven into it -- this can lead to confusion in describing the hand of model chairs with moulded keys. regards, Martin. Edited January 30, 2016 by martin_wynne 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Does anyone have experience of how long Peco take from announcing a product through to it being in the shops?I have been using Peco's code 75 track, and cutting out a third of the sleepers and re-spacing the remainder. I have just bought a box of 25x1 meter flexi, but if this is likely to be in the shops soon I could see if I could return it and wait to lay the remaining tracks. If this is going to be like some of the other manufacturers where something is announced and then several years pass before the product appears I am not going to wait.I am probably the kind of modeller this is aimed at, I did think of going the C&L route, but with limited modelling time, and also inner city thick ballast, like the Leeds stations in the late 50's and 60's where most of the ballast was walked flat to the top of the sleepers, I can hide a lot of the Peco deficiencies with a Das clay and ballast mix. I am happy to bend and butcher Peco points to get the curves I want.I do admire the beautiful point and trackwork that many here make with kits or from scratch, but if I went that route, I don't think I would have a working layout in my lifetime. I have also seen layouts like Wavery.Haymarket MPD which have made excellent use of Peco track.Peco is a necessary compromise for me, and I welcome this news with open arms.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Does anyone have experience of how long Peco take from announcing a product through to it being in the shops? I have been using Peco's code 75 track, and cutting out a third of the sleepers and re-spacing the remainder. I have just bought a box of 25x1 meter flexi, but if this is likely to be in the shops soon I could see if I could return it and wait to lay the remaining tracks. If this is going to be like some of the other manufacturers where something is announced and then several years pass before the product appears I am not going to wait. I am probably the kind of modeller this is aimed at, I did think of going the C&L route, but with limited modelling time, and also inner city thick ballast, like the Leeds stations in the late 50's and 60's where most of the ballast was walked flat to the top of the sleepers, I can hide a lot of the Peco deficiencies with a Das clay and ballast mix. I am happy to bend and butcher Peco points to get the curves I want. I do admire the beautiful point and trackwork that many here make with kits or from scratch, but if I went that route, I don't think I would have a working layout in my lifetime. I have also seen layouts like Wavery.Haymarket MPD which have made excellent use of Peco track. Peco is a necessary compromise for me, and I welcome this news with open arms. Jamie Hard to tell how long Jamie. I don't recall a time in recent memory that they have pre-announced something, other than their servo motor system, which they don't actually make anyway. Their bibloc and steel sleepered track appeared almost as soon as they were presented. So I doubt it will be long before we see them in stock. However, one difference is their statement that they are waiting to see how this is "received" before embarking on turnout production. Does that mean how the pre-prod sample is received or the final production version? Does anyone have inside info? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 If there's enough interest peco will consider making points ! yes let them know larger more realistic points without a kink in the switch rail etc they would sell loads I want to press the agree button three times to that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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