Train routed incorrectly?

[sub39h]

Hi guys - I'm on board the 16.03 out of Euston. We're sat stopped outside Rugby and have just been informed over the tannoy we were incorrectly routed through some signals and will have to go back? That doesn't sound right lol

 

Yep and now we're heading the other way. That's slightly unnerving lol.

[jamie92208]

It happens. I was sent out of Leeds towards Morley but we got routed down the old Midland Line and had to reverse at Engine Shed Junction. Hope you get sorted out quickly.

 

Jamie

[Zomboid]

Pretty sure that happened to me once on a Cross Country at Didcot, got routed towards Swindon and shuffled back and forth into the station to eventually head north. Why we didn't just go round the west to north curve I don't know. Had to sprint for my connection at International...

[PaulRhB]

It happens, either an error by the Signalman, planning error on a short notice alteration or an incorrect train description.

There's no need to be concerned there are specific rules regarding protecting wrong direction moves to get the train back on the right line. It gets more interesting when an electric unit gets wrong routed off the juice and doesn't stop within the backup supply usually provided for such eventualities, then you have to get another one to bridge the gap to power it up

[PaulRhB]

Why we didn't just go round the west to north curve I don't know. Had to sprint for my connection at International...

Probably route knowledge, if we have to turn GW units on Laverstock loop they have to be piloted as they don't know the north side of the triangle.

[beast66606]

Looks like 9G31, 16:03, London Euston - Birmingham New Street was signalled on the main through Rugby, when it was due to stop at the station !

 

RUGBY 16:51 16:50(-1) 16:53 17:06(+13)     1 DCL C FL   Passenger Stop

 

Knock on delays to following services for a while

[russ p]

The driver is normally in bother when this happens as his route knowledge should tell him the signals are not correct for his booked route.

[Zomboid]

Probably route knowledge, if we have to turn GW units on Laverstock loop they have to be piloted as they don't know the north side of the triangle.

Which raises a question in this case - did the driver have the route knowledge for Didcot parkway to foxhall junction? Since we went both ways along that bit. And are 220/221s allowed that way?

If it was a mistake then I imagine there was paperwork to do as well...

Also, why would GW drivers know the east side of laverstock if they don't know the north?

[PaulRhB]

The driver is normally in bother when this happens as his route knowledge should tell him the signals are not correct for his booked route.

Yes sometimes but with multi aspects sometimes you don't see the route indication until the last signal and the speed can be too high. If a driver takes a route and should have realised its split 50:50 otherwise the Signaller or whoever planned it incorrectly, entered the wrong description gets it all.

[Ceptic]

One occasion (now folklore in these parts) springs to mind. Back in the 80s, IIRC. A Cl.442, 5-Wes happened to be sent deeper wessexward than previously planned, from Worting Junc. via, and nearly made Overton before grinding to a halt. Luckily the 'Thunderbird'  Cl.73 was sat twiddling it's thumbs at nearby Basingstoke and was able to assist.

[HillsideDepot]

Which raises a question in this case - did the driver have the route knowledge for Didcot parkway to foxhall junction? Since we went both ways along that bit. And are 220/221s allowed that way?

If it was a mistake then I imagine there was paperwork to do as well...

Also, why would GW drivers know the east side of laverstock if they don't know the north?

 

There is a booked Cross Country working via Foxhall and the West Curve, the 2146 Reading - New Street:  http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C13156/2016/01/27/advanced

[PaulRhB]

Which raises a question in this case - did the driver have the route knowledge for Didcot parkway to foxhall junction? Since we went both ways along that bit. And are 220/221s allowed that way?

If it was a mistake then I imagine there was paperwork to do as well...

Also, why would GW drivers know the east side of laverstock if they don't know the north?

They can go back the way they went if it's a short distance. An example on our patch is that you approach Wilton jcn on greens for either route but don't get the feather until the last signal and at line speed you won't stop before the points. The driver wouldn't just carry on so they stop fairly quickly. The way a wrong direction move is protected means there is an extra section clear in case they overshoot coming back purely because it isn't a signalled move we expect them to know.

Also in your case it might have been a blockage or failure meaning they had to reverse as they couldn't go forward. In this case the driver is on a familiar route but protected the same way for the wrong direction move as the system doesn't discriminate to make it very safe.

Yes there is always paperwork, a signalling irregularities form

There's no need in normal service for drivers to know the rest of the loop just their normal route. Where it is a recognised diversionary route then they would route learn it and refresh it, which is why XC and The FOCs have odd trains once a day or week booked via there to keep up the knowledge. A turning move is very unusual and has been used to save cancelling a train and inconveniencing the passengers as we had the resource to solve the problem much faster than waiting for a fitter. It's all part of looking at possible solutions and picking the best with what you have available. SWT had a spare driver, it freed up a blocked platform fast they needed and we had a MOM to retreive the pilot driver

As with many things what's done to make it work rarely makes the headlines as it's just problem solving

[Eggesford box]

 In places where a driver would not know if he had been wrongly routed until he approached the actual junction signal they provide preliminary route indicators (PRIs) seperate from the signals which show which route ahead is set. Obviously, they are not lit unless the signals are cleared. I do not know how universal they are. When they relayed the junction at Aynho and upped the linespeed for trains going onto the Chilterns they did away with the flashing yellow aspects and provided PRIs, one either side of Kings Sutton station.. Not totally foolproof. We had a Cross Country once that was wrongly routed towards the Chilterns, took the signal and cleared the overlap enabling the closely following FGW service, with the signal before the junction signal on auto, to proceed up towards  the junction signal. Two trains to set back!

 

Course we will ignore the occasion during FGW diversions when the driver on a HST stopped to say he was routed the wrong way to be told the train was routed correctly but he was driving the wrong train!

[28XX]

In the early 80's 1V89 14:20 New Street to Taunton was scheduled to turn right after Bromsgrove to call at Droitwich and Worcester.

 

On the day in question we were routed down the main, overshot the junction and stopped in the middle of nowhere. The driver had to walk to the SPT and back, so it transpired after a considerable delay there was nothing for it but to continue to Cheltenham.

[Fat Controller]

There's a PRI at the London end of Saltwood tunnel, with indications to show whether the route is set for Dolland's Moor, the Channel Tunnel, or Folkestone; it's there because the junction signals are almost on top of the junction.

One of the more embarrassing mis-routings I can think of was the Aberthaw- bound coal train that was routed up the Penarth branch a couple of years ago. 

Mis-routings aren't always down to signaller error; sometimes there are 'hiccups' in the links between train-describers and the Automatic Route Setting, which can cause the latter to mis-identify, then misroute, a train.

[big jim]

There is a booked Cross Country working via Foxhall and the West Curve, the 2146 Reading - New Street:  http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C13156/2016/01/27/advanced

 

and here it is..

 

[PaulRhB]

Helpfully I've got an out of gauge, (length), notice for this week to make sure I don't put the 1500ft high output ballast train in the 450ish ft bay platform!

[Dan Griffin]

I was once on board the zillertalbahn in austria, the rack and pinion one up to the lake, the loco propels the coach and when we set off they had forgot to chnage the points and we ended up being shunted into the loco shed road!! Rare track indeed!

[TheSignalEngineer]

It does happen and has had bad consequences on occasions. The first signal out of Birmingham New St on the Coventry line had a theatre indicator mounted on top. This wasn't visible until the train left the tunnel. It was worked by the South Panel signalman. Not long after the new electric service started in 1967 there were occasions when the Walsall service at xx.12 was late coming in, so the Station Panel man sent out the xx.15 Euston in front. The South man had the road set for the Walsall and the driver didn't stop as he was powering up for the climb to Proof House. There were a few puzzled faces amongst the passengers when the train passed New Street again about 20 minutes later after going via Aston, Perry Barr and Soho.

 

In a later incident, around 1974 IIRC, an excursion train returning to Leamington was signalled to the Camp Hill line to go via Solihull.  The driver stopped past the signal and walked back to the SPT to tell the Signalman that he was booked to stop at Coventry to set down. The South Signalman told him to set back and he would reset the route. Meanwhile the Station panel man had set a route which reversed the crossover at the tunnel mouth. The excursion set back, running through the points the pulled forward when the signal cleared. The coaches started to go both ways and got firmly wedged under Park Street bridge.

[phil-b259]

 In places where a driver would not know if he had been wrongly routed until he approached the actual junction signal they provide preliminary route indicators (PRIs) seperate from the signals which show which route ahead is set. Obviously, they are not lit unless the signals are cleared. I do not know how universal they are. When they relayed the junction at Aynho and upped the linespeed for trains going onto the Chilterns they did away with the flashing yellow aspects and provided PRIs, one either side of Kings Sutton station.. Not totally foolproof. We had a Cross Country once that was wrongly routed towards the Chilterns, took the signal and cleared the overlap enabling the closely following FGW service, with the signal before the junction signal on auto, to proceed up towards  the junction signal. Two trains to set back!

 

Course we will ignore the occasion during FGW diversions when the driver on a HST stopped to say he was routed the wrong way to be told the train was routed correctly but he was driving the wrong train!

 

PRIs are a fairly new invention and most places featuring diverging routes don't have them due to the age of the signalling installation.

 

Incidentally in many European countries they don't give any form of routing information - only speed so if a wrong route is set and both have the same speed then the driver is none the wiser till they start heading down the wrong line.

 

Another cause of a wrong route can be where the signaler has left a signal in automatic mode and not spotted it is set fpr the wrong line - particularly if its only a few trains a shifty that are different to the rest.

[St. Simon]

PRIs are a fairly new invention and most places featuring diverging routes don't have them due to the age of the signalling installation.

.

Yes and no, PRI's were first installed around 1992 when splitting distance were reintroduced, they were then taken out of standards in 1996, before being reintroduced in 2002.

 

They are quite useful in design, there are two on the approach in the up direction to Reading West, there's one on the Up Main between Paddington and Stockley. There's a few at Rugby, and we were thinking about one at Langley, but I that's not needed anymore.

 

The PRI's are only used were there would a significant operational inconvenience if a train was re-routed, not where it was deemed a driver would be 'confused' about a route. The PRI's at Reading are to reduce the possibility of you going around the West curve when you want to go London and visa-versa. The one at East of Stockley is critical as if you are not a train fitted with ATP, then you are barred from the Heathrow Branch, equally if you are a Class 332, you are barred from going west of Stockley (well for the next couple of years).

 

PRI's do NOT prevent misrouting, they just reduce the possibility of misrouting.

 

Simon

[Dagworth]

I had it happen to me once at Herne Hill, trouble was that I was the driver!

 

I departed from the platform, never even occurred to me that the Lunars (southern parlance for Feather) was lit. Next thing I know I'm going round the corner to the south-west when I'm meant to be going to Orpington!

I got to the first signal just around the corner and stopped to talk to the signalman, his comment was "I've given you the wrong road and you've took it... there's a dummy behind you, change ends and drop back into the platform and we'll get you off to Orpy"

 

He didn't report it,. neither did I. Nothing more was ever said...

 

 

... until one day when I was working as a roadie for a band I knew. the singer said to me "what happened at Herne Hill?" His girlfriend was on the train and had seem me!

 

Andi

[Bon Accord]

Many years ago one snowy New Years eve, a very minor derailment caused some havoc on the main line side of the Thornton triangle. The weather being what it was, local signalling and yard staff thought that would be it movements wise for the night, cue celebrations.

Some hours later S&T and the Thornton breakdown gang performed some minor miracles and declared the line open again - cue a flurry of activity amongst the by now "tired and emotional" box and yard staff (the junction box was the cosiest and largest place on site for an ad hoc assembly, even if it was like a conservatory) and they sent an unfitted WD hauled coal train wrong route onto the main line, forgetting about the passenger trains held to the North and South, some of which were the final trains of the evening before the bells.  Driver of the WD realised the error but had difficulty stopping and ended up doing so across the main line, then sent the fireman back to tell the box - some panic ensues. My Grandfather was the local duty inspector and was in the house with the rest of the family partaking of a few Hogmany drams when the telephone rang (not long fitted, courtesy of BR) and he departed in haste to sort it out.

Apparently a "please explain" letter appeared from the Kremlin in Glasgow but that was suitably rebuffed and as usual the matter remained local.

These things happen!

[lippy]

If you leave York on the Up Main heading south the first sighting of the Signal at Colton Junction is when you realise he has it off for the wrong route. All well and good as both routes are 125mph and your doing about 105mph by the time you get the brakes in hard but sail past and stop. Speak to signaller change ends and drive back behind the signal with his permission.

If you take it and continue then it is your fault as Driver. Otherwise they blame Auto Route set ARS and get off with it!! 

[The Stationmaster]

 In places where a driver would not know if he had been wrongly routed until he approached the actual junction signal they provide preliminary route indicators (PRIs) seperate from the signals which show which route ahead is set. Obviously, they are not lit unless the signals are cleared. I do not know how universal they are. When they relayed the junction at Aynho and upped the linespeed for trains going onto the Chilterns they did away with the flashing yellow aspects and provided PRIs, one either side of Kings Sutton station.. Not totally foolproof. We had a Cross Country once that was wrongly routed towards the Chilterns, took the signal and cleared the overlap enabling the closely following FGW service, with the signal before the junction signal on auto, to proceed up towards  the junction signal. Two trains to set back!

 

Course we will ignore the occasion during FGW diversions when the driver on a HST stopped to say he was routed the wrong way to be told the train was routed correctly but he was driving the wrong train!

The main reason for the introduction of PRIs was to avoid trains slowing excessively when approaching certain junctions where other solutions (e.g. splitting distants) are not possible for whatever reason.

 

Some years back - earlier this century - I carried out a major study of mis-routing to try to ascertain the main reasons why it happened and what could be done in mitigation.  As I had access to information for the whole network it was remarkable to find out how many reported instances there were in the average year (and that's just the ones which were reported of course, no doubt some were hushed up as eve although that is much harder nowadays).  The main reasons for Signalmen (to use the proper term for their work) misrouting trains were inadequate information (the big one) and inattention (relatively minor in numbers but it happened and those concerned were prepared to say so) and the information item was clearly teh one that merited immediate attention.

 

The reasons for Drivers accepting the wrong route were quite interesting - poor road knowledge was a factor in a number of cases but the main one was inattention and running at too high a speed to react to incorrect routes.  Oddly there were examples in a number of cases where the signal for the wrong route was approached released but the Driver still took it and they seemed to be down mainly to poor road knowledge but with some instances of excessive speed (it's surprising how far some electric trains will run once they are no longer getting a power supply).

 

Interesting exercise all round and I think soem good might have come out of it as far as reducing errors by Signalmen was concerned; I'm not so sure with Drivers but the obvious answers are knowing the road really well, staying alert for signals and the provision of advance indication of some form at the really fast junctions.