Hroth Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Also, due to the inside cylinders, the thrust from the connecting rods is closer to the center line of the loco in the British examples, causing less yaw at speed. And the Dean Singles were very speedy machines, for example the Duke of Connaught on the Ocean Special, 9th May, 1904, which took over at Bristol after City of Truro brought the special up from Plymouth, getting to Paddington in just under 100 minutes. We need not remind ourselves that CoT did the Ton down Wellington prior to handing over to DoC... Even the old Broad Gauge singles of the Iron Duke class had a look of noble and austere presence, compared to the American of a similar age! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 James! That is veering dangerously close to the topic! Not only is it railway related, the correct era (roughly) and British, but it's also Great Eastern! Great Eastern but slower due to the smaller driver..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Horses for courses. The typical US railroad in the expansionist phase involved miles of 'dirt-scrape' grading, unprepared 'ties' cut from the nearest stands of timber, fairly light FB rail spiked down, and sometimes only a light sprinkling of ballast to give basic drainage. The loco needed to be light and flexible, and ditto the cars, which is why they came up with the 4-4-0 with compensation-beam suspension, and bogies for cars. And, everything needed to be cheap as chips. If they'd followed contemporary British practice, there would be a lovely little BLT about thirty five miles west of New York, served by delightful little English trains, and everything beyond there, to the Pacific, would still be unexploited territory. The British Colonial railway was possibly the ultimate blend of the two traditions, which is why I've always half-fancied building an Australian or South African layout. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devo63 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Thanks, I'll look out for this. My father's collection of RMs stops just short of Beeching, so I have no copies for the period between then and my own 1970s collection. My collection of RMs goes the other way. I have volumes 1* & 2 ('49-'51) bound which my father brought out to Australia when he emigrated in 1954. He left his 1952 - 1954 issues with his parents to bring out with them later that year but for some reason they left them in Cardiff. He did not start buying them again regularly until the end of 1960. We did have bound volumes from 1961 to 1976 + 1979 but '64-'65 and '72-'73 were lent to someone and never returned. I have since managed to get hold of replacements for those years but have not, as yet, had them bound. I also need to get '77 & '78 and 1980 to 2004 bound when I can afford to do so. One thing I'm planning to do before getting any of them to the book binders is to scan any drawings I may require in the future. As this facility was not available back when my father had the older copies bound he photocopied all of CJF's drawing of Great Western locos - most of those copies still survive and have come in handy at times. I would love to be able to get hold of the years 1952 to 1960 to make a nice complete run but most of those are very hard to find these days. Even when you find affordable copies the postage to Australia ends up being the deal breaker. I also have bound copies of MRC for '65, '68, '69 & '70. * I have extra copies of issues 1, 2 & 3 from vol 1. Don't know where they came from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 I wouldn't even think of arguing with your analysis of the basis of the American railroad, the state of the track outside the zones of civilisation mandated a flexible frame and lightweight construction to keep the wheels on the road. Of course, they had to basically rebuild when traffic increased to take the larger tonnage! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted May 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2018 The Exalted! The Holy of Holies! Despoiled by low and uncaring men. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted May 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2018 Just think about it. If the Broad Gauge had remained you might have had 7 ft gauge English Electric (The finest maker of diesel locomotives bar none) diesels operating in the British Railways era. Having mentioned diesels I shall go and whip myself for the next five minutes, but I'm sure you take my point. It would have been truly magnificent, Britain would have had railways like no other. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted May 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) It's not funny Sem. Your name has been taken and certain people in secret places will consider your fate. It's been a while since I made a wax figure, - now where are my best nice long sharp needles............. Edited May 9, 2018 by Annie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 I didn't mean to! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted May 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) This is a rather early MSTS simulation of the LDECR predecessor Annie mentioned. Sitting appropriately in the Butterley Company sidings on the LDECR. I can concur about coal trains going downhill, and not just in simulations. The Taff Vale Railway felt brake vans to be an effeminate accessory not needed by real railways, even for running long coal trains down the Taff valley to Cardiff. It had long arguments with the BoT about the matter. I must experiment in MSTS to see how much difference screwing down the brake van brakes makes when going downhill with a loaded coal train. I have a feeling that the destination may be Lydney Docks - beyond the end of rail. At the other end of the scale, i have discovered that the Bishop's Casttle Railway ran its mixed trains between Bishop's Castle and Lydham Heath with the brake van next to the loco and the carriage at the other end, well away from any continuous brake connection. The train was then the right way round for the run to Craven Arms, where the LNWR/GWR management might have taken a dim view of such matters. The Newark Brake Trials would make an interesting layout but I think the 1925 centenary celebrations would give more scope for an eclectic collection of motive power. I tried simulating it once in MSTS but as Shildon was not on any route I used the sidings to the east of Carlisle station on the NER. Jonathan Edited May 9, 2018 by corneliuslundie 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted May 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2018 Very nice Cornelius. I wonder if Darlington Works could be persuaded to make one of those. In the TS2009 simulation I use brake vans are just another wagon along for the ride unfortunately so having to do it all with the locomotive is par for the course. I have a 3ft 6in gauge layout where I was running Kitson-Meyers on severe gradients and having a heavy train trying to push you downhill faster than you want to go is something I've experienced. Terrific locomotives though those digital model Kitson-Meyers, - very well put together and their engine specs were exactly right. Enormous fun to drive with a heavy train, - but now I'm getting well away from the subject, - whatever the current subject of this thread is at present. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2018 Midland Single.jpg Pretty!!! Fatally disfigured by the Deeley smokebox door, alas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Burnham Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 From what I can work out, the Newark Brake Trials were on the Midland's Trent Valley Line, Nottingham to Lincoln, which had long straight and level sections, but exactly where is beyond me. Derby seems a bit of a trek as the HQ, but it had 'every possible facility', which, given that some of the trains suffered bent and broken brake rigging and other ailments, was clearly a good thing. Surely there must be a good book about all this, because the Newark Trials and other activities in the 1870s and 80s were pivotal to the future 'shape' of the typical British railway ...... the signalling history over the same period has been well covered. Between Thurgarton and Newark apparently. There was a marquee in a field next to the line where the leading participants could take luncheon. According to the London Daily News for Thursday 10 June 1875 "The scene on the measured course yesterday was novel, and in the highest degree exciting. Each train was tended by the inventor of the brake with which it was fitted, and, when started, was filled by the leading railway men of the day taking and comparing elaborate notes of the brake performances." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbcompound Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 I wouldn't even think of arguing with your analysis of the basis of the American railroad, the state of the track outside the zones of civilisation mandated a flexible frame and lightweight construction to keep the wheels on the road. Of course, they had to basically rebuild when traffic increased to take the larger tonnage! And one of the reasons they had to rebuild was that all the lines were different gauges and a number of the significant ones were broad gauge, so if they had got their act together those monster articulated engines would have been running transcontinental on (for example) the Erie's 6ft gauge and if this Erie 2-8-8-2 + 8-4 triplex had been broad gauge... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 The Americans just lobbed parts together. I think its mainly down to their use of the Bar Frame and the concept of hanging everything off the boiler. These are what proper late Victorian Singles should look like... Dean Single.jpg Midland Single.jpg Pretty!!! Come on gents we all know what a classic British 4-2-2 should look like 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) Come on gents we all know what a classic British 4-2-2 should look like Where's its boiler? Edited May 9, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Where's its boiler? Under the driving axle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 It's not funny Sem. Your name has been taken and certain people in secret places will consider your fate. It's been a while since I made a wax figure, - now where are my best nice long sharp needles............. It can't be the Men in Malachite, or the Gresleyites, or the Stanistas or the Swindonians, and they're to be greatly feared. I wonder who..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted May 9, 2018 Author Share Posted May 9, 2018 Come on gents we all know what a classic British 4-2-2 should look like Classic example of what happens because blokes think they can assemble anything without any need to look at the instructions. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 It can't be the Men in Malachite, or the Gresleyites, or the Stanistas or the Swindonians, and they're to be greatly feared. I wonder who..... The Woman in Ultramarine?! Mind you, the NZR Mob are a pretty rough looking bunch: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 In order to redeem myself (sorry, again, Annie!): There are some nice locos in your part of the world! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Classic example of what happens because blokes think they can assemble anything without any need to look at the instructions. Its like when I built an Airfix Beam Engine.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2018 NO!!! Just NO!!! I know you have drawings. So do I. This is one instance where my offer of "if you have the drawings I'll try and CAD it" does NOT apply! I agree with your sentiments. The Belgians just copied the Caley... And I can't fault this German-built Dutch loco: Nothing to do with my LBSCR tendencies AT ALL!!! How, why, and when? Was Stroudley somebody's Dutch uncle? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 I'm not sure! It was sent to me by a guy on the UKtrainsim forum who is building up a range of continental pre-grouping steam locos, of which there are none currently in TS. He has done a couple of Beyer Peacock machines, and he's doing the Nord Atlantic on which the GWR's 'La France' was based. I am trying to persuade him to do that latter as well... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2018 he's doing the Nord Atlantic In Marsh umber? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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