Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

34 minutes ago, Annie said:

One must wonder if: -

 

A: Your neighbours' surname is 'Gibbons'.

 

B:  You really do have gibbons next door.

 

C:  You are being disparaging towards out of town visitors to Minehead, 

 

Interesting, I had thought the post indicated Minehead's decline and fall.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

 

Its a mutant language - they can't even decide on Cymru vs Gymru....

 

 

It must be nice to live next door to a colony of singers!

 

 

 

Wow!  Page 11

 

Or page 1763, or page 03F3.

 

It depends on how you look at it...

 

 

Sorry if I'm being thick, but did you say the Gesualdo Six?

[webbcompound]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

  9 hours ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

Or Wales where the natives speak a language in which every letter is a vowel to be pronounced as the speaker alone sees fit. 

Its a mutant language - they can't even decide on Cymru vs Gymru....

 

 As it happens Welsh has very clear immutable phonetics, and the way words change is completely logical and bound by rules.

 

The English, being a mongrel race with a mongrel language however are a different thing altogether as their spelling mutates randomly:

Ghoughpteighbteau, pronounced potato

P as in hiccough, O as in though, T as in ptomaine, A as in neigh, T as in debt, O as in beureau

Ghoti and tchoghs, pronounced fish and chips

F as in cough, I as in women, SH as in nation, CH as in match, I as in women, P as in hiccough

and their rules are rubbish, what for instance is the point of learning "i before e except after c" at school, then writing the following words:

eight, forfeit, height, neighbour, seize, vein, weight, ancient, fancies, science, society deficient, conscience and so on

 

So best not to get too uppity about your linguistic superiority before checking.

 

Grumpy? moi? just had some crap news. Now can we get back to railways and the bizarre economics, politics and society of the fold in Norfolk?

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by webbcompound

[Edwardian]

13 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Sorry if I'm being thick, but did you say the Gesualdo Six?

 

They trained with the Temperance Seven

 

(of whom there were 9)

 

So, time for some trams, apparently filmed at Crich (I've never been) in sepia.

 

 

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

40 minutes ago, webbcompound said:

 As it happens Welsh has very clear immutable phonetics, and the way words change is completely logical and bound by rules.

 

The English, being a mongrel race with a mongrel language however are a different thing altogether as their spelling mutates randomly:

Ghoughpteighbteau, pronounced potato

P as in hiccough, O as in though, T as in ptomaine, A as in neigh, T as in debt, O as in beureau

Ghoti and tchoghs, pronounced fish and chips

F as in cough, I as in women, SH as in nation, CH as in match, I as in women, P as in hiccough

and their rules are rubbish, what for instance is the point of learning "i before e except after c" at school, then writing the following words:

eight, forfeit, height, neighbour, seize, vein, weight, ancient, fancies, science, society deficient, conscience and so on

 

So best not to get too uppity about your linguistic superiority before checking.

 

Grumpy? moi? just had some crap news. Now can we get back to railways and the bizarre economics, politics and society of the fold in Norfolk?

 

 

Hmm in defence of the mother tongue I humbly suggest that there is a certain consistency in inconsistency so long as its inconsistency is consistent. 

 

And to ensure matters return to normal my friend Bronwen will keep an eye open for any deviance from digression. It may be seen from that what happened to the sixth Gesualdo.  

 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Malcolm 0-6-0

[Donw]

1 hour ago, Annie said:

One must wonder if: -

 

A: Your neighbours' surname is 'Gibbons'.

 

B:  You really do have gibbons next door.

 

C:  You are being disparaging towards out of town visitors to Minehead, 

 

B not quite next door but about a quarter of a mile away  across the valley.

 

Don

[wagonman]

57 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

They trained with the Temperance Seven

 

(of whom there were 9)

 

 

 

Because they were always one over the eight apparently...

[Donw]

53 minutes ago, webbcompound said:

 As it happens Welsh has very clear immutable phonetics, and the way words change is completely logical and bound by rules.Spel

 

Grumpy? moi? just had some crap news. Now can we get back to railways and the bizarre economics, politics and society of the fold in Norfolk?

 

 

Welsh can be very difficult to learn later in life. Hear Rhod Gilbert on mutation.  As for the pronounciation the Welsh never agree about the exact pronounciation and certainly there is a distiction between North, West and South Welsh speakers.  That said I wish I could speak it.

English on the other had has no rules as there are always exceptions. You only have to read Teaky's regional versions of Shakespear to realise the latitude that is allowed in English. Spelling of course is a nonsense I am sure it is a peculiar cruelty of teachers to teach rules and then trip you up with exceptions. I do think it is easier to get yourself understood in English than most languages. It is also easier for those who consider themselves superior to look down their nose at others who speak differently.

I think it is unlikely for Welsh to become widely used beyond its borders whereas English has been widely adopted and locally mangled all over the world. Its very lack of discipline may be a major factor.

Don

 

[wagonman]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Sorry if I'm being thick, but did you say the Gesualdo Six?

 

Perhaps no.6 is holding the camera?

 

 

 

By Sprague-Coolidge - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=72346207

Edited April 12, 2020 by wagonman
photo attribution

[Edwardian]

20 minutes ago, wagonman said:

 

Because they were always one over the eight apparently...

 

Whereas the opposite state would be one under

[St Enodoc]

15 minutes ago, wagonman said:

no.6

He is not a number, he is a free man!

[lanchester]

1 hour ago, webbcompound said:

 As it happens Welsh has very clear immutable phonetics, and the way words change is completely logical and bound by rules.

 

The English, being a mongrel race with a mongrel language however are a different thing altogether as their spelling mutates randomly:

Ghoughpteighbteau, pronounced potato

P as in hiccough, O as in though, T as in ptomaine, A as in neigh, T as in debt, O as in beureau

Ghoti and tchoghs, pronounced fish and chips

F as in cough, I as in women, SH as in nation, CH as in match, I as in women, P as in hiccough

and their rules are rubbish, what for instance is the point of learning "i before e except after c" at school, then writing the following words:

eight, forfeit, height, neighbour, seize, vein, weight, ancient, fancies, science, society deficient, conscience and so on

 

So best not to get too uppity about your linguistic superiority before checking.

 

Grumpy? moi? just had some crap news. Now can we get back to railways and the bizarre economics, politics and society of the fold in Norfolk?

 

The 'i before e' rule is nearly perfect, PROVIDED it's quoted in full - 'i before e, except after c, when the sound is EE'. That works almost all the time (and I think the exceptions, which I can't immediately recall, are all loan words from other languages). 'Seize' is a funny one, but I believe its from Middle French and was spelt (and presumably pronounced) 'saize'. 'Forfeit', similarly, used to be spelt 'forfait' - and I think still is in some legal context about which Edwardian may be able to advise us for the traditional six and eightpence consideration.

 

Since I'm posting, just to scroll back a few pages and the false attribution of Stonehenge et al to the Celts and Druids. In fairness to the Victorians, this goes back a lot further - certainly to Stukeley in C18, and possibly to Aubrey and even Camden. Similarly, the bogus Scottish stuff is by definition Georgian (George IV) not Victorian. The Victorians were less about inventing spurious myths, and more about turning them into viable tourist industries. Had Tennyson been born a little further south and east, and/or had he majored in Boudiccan rather than Arthurian legend, the history and prosperity of the West Norfolk railways might have been very different. The crack express, the 'Iceni Limited' - non stop to Camulodunum and then on to Liverpool Street, laid on by the GER, would of course have competed with the GNR's 'The Boadicean', departing from Boudicca's traditional burial site at Kings Cross. The residents of Castle Aching thus treated to the near simultaneous departure of both green and blue singles. 

 

Must stop - I can feel some curious symptoms coming on.

 

 

[Edwardian]

8 minutes ago, lanchester said:

The 'i before e' rule is nearly perfect, PROVIDED it's quoted in full - 'i before e, except after c, when the sound is EE'. That works almost all the time (and I think the exceptions, which I can't immediately recall, are all loan words from other languages). 'Seize' is a funny one, but I believe its from Middle French and was spelt (and presumably pronounced) 'saize'. 'Forfeit', similarly, used to be spelt 'forfait' - and I think still is in some legal context about which Edwardian may be able to advise us for the traditional six and eightpence consideration.

 

Since I'm posting, just to scroll back a few pages and the false attribution of Stonehenge et al to the Celts and Druids. In fairness to the Victorians, this goes back a lot further - certainly to Stukeley in C18, and possibly to Aubrey and even Camden. Similarly, the bogus Scottish stuff is by definition Georgian (George IV) not Victorian. The Victorians were less about inventing spurious myths, and more about turning them into viable tourist industries. Had Tennyson been born a little further south and east, and/or had he majored in Boudiccan rather than Arthurian legend, the history and prosperity of the West Norfolk railways might have been very different. The crack express, the 'Iceni Limited' - non stop to Camulodunum and then on to Liverpool Street, laid on by the GER, would of course have competed with the GNR's 'The Boadicean', departing from Boudicca's traditional burial site at Kings Cross. The residents of Castle Aching thus treated to the near simultaneous departure of both green and blue singles. 

 

Must stop - I can feel some curious symptoms coming on.

 

 

 

One day, if we model one of the larger stations, we may well see the near simultaneous departure of both green and blue singles!

 

You know, I nearly mentioned that George IV kicked this off -  fake historical revivals, from tartans to jousting, and I think in the invention of Scottish identity, Ossian is worth a mention.

 

It's just that the Victorians really went to town with this stuff.  There was, of course, much English myth-making, but that tended to be subsumed in establishing "British" identity.  Of course, that was a rather anglo-centric view of Britishness (or a Britannic view of Englishness "They'll always be an England ... red, white and blue, what does it mean to you?"), which in itself makes the case for reviving interest in distinct Welsh, Irish, Scottish history/culture/myth.

 

Sadly, today, RIP Stirling Moss and Tim Brooke Taylor.

 

 

[St Enodoc]

1 minute ago, Edwardian said:

Sadly, today, RIP Stirling Moss and Tim Brooke Taylor.

Oh no, I hadn't heard that. Very sad. Mind you, Sir Stirling had a pretty good innings.

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 

 

NEXT!

 

or

 

Never get on the wrong side of a woman with a labrys.....

 

25 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Sadly, today, RIP Stirling Moss and Tim Brooke Taylor.

 

Stirling Moss was "a long illness", Tim Brooke Taylor was covid-19.

 

In other news, BoJo has been discharged from hospital, but will not yet be returning to work.

 

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, webbcompound said:

Ghoughpteighbteau, pronounced potato

P as in hiccough

Etc.

 

Find me an example with “gh” pronounced as “p” at the beginning of the word. The “f” of gh (e.g. in enough) also doesn’t mean that “ghoti” is a spelling of “fish”.

[Mrkirtley800]

13 hours ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 

Well every cloud has a silver lining ........... 

Or conversely, every silver lining has a cloud.

Derek

[Hroth]

5 minutes ago, Mrkirtley800 said:

Or conversely, every silver lining has a cloud.

 

Any silver lined cloud is just about to dump 6" of rain on you.....

 

 

[wagonman]

I recommend adding a copy of Hobsbawm's 'The Invention of Tradition' to the Parish Library.

 

 

[Mrkirtley800]

7 hours ago, teaky said:

Like this, you mean Derek?

 

Once mooar untoa t' breach, eh up friends, once more; or close t' wall up wi' wee English dead.  In peace ther's nowt sa becomes eur bloke as modest stillness 'n 'umility: but when t' blast o' war blows i' wee ears, then imitate t' action o' t' tiger; stiffen t' sinews, summon up t' blood, disguise jannock nature wi' 'ard-favour'd rage; then len' t' eye eur terrible aspect; let pry thru t' portage o' t' noggin li' t' brass cannon; let t' bra o'erwhelm it as fearfully as doth eur galled rock o'erhang 'n jutty 'is confounded base, swill'd wi' t' wild 'n wasteful ocean.  Na set t' teeth 'n stretch t' nostril wide, howd 'ard t' breyth 'n ben' up everee spirit toa 'is full 'eeight. on, on, theur noblest English. whose blood is fet fra fathers o' war-proof! fathers 'a', li' sa menny Alexanders, hev i' these parts fra morn while even fought an' sheythed thea swords for lack o' argument: dishonour not thy mothers; naw attest tha' those wha theur call'd fathers did beget theur.  Be copy naw ta men o' grossa blood, an' lern 'em 'a ta war. 'n theur, gran' yeoman, whose limbs wor made i' Englan', sha wee 'ere the mettle o' thy pasture; let wee swear tha' theur are worth thy breeding; which ah doubt not; for ther's none o' theur sa mean 'n base, tha' 'ath not noble lustre i' thy een.  I sithee stan' li' greyhounds int' slips, strainin upon t' start. t' game's afoot: folla thy spirit, 'n upon dis charge cry 'god for wee Harry, Englan', 'n Saint George!

By ‘eck thats champion. Tha’s just abart reet..

Derek

[Edwardian]

S W Johnson’s GER Coaches at Castle Aching

 

These are coaches dating from 1866-1870 that John Watling categorises as Type 2A; https://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php/rolling-stock/carriages/types-1-4

 

I quote:

 

Samuel Johnson arrived at Stratford in July 1866 … He introduced plain recessed top panels, with bulbous vents set above the door drop lights, window heads had 3 centre radius curves and the waist had applied beading of a more robust section to that used by Sinclair. The body side turn under was more pronounced although the ends remained flat. Underframes, wheels and lighting remained much the same.

 

The first Johnson carriage was a type new to the GER but destined to become very common indeed, the 'brake composite' best known to us today as the brake 3rd. They were to the odd length of 21ft 8ins, a dimension later increased to 22ft 8ins (D501). The late 1860's were troubled years financially for the GER and carriage building was very restrained but quantities of 5 compartment 3rd's (D400), 24ft 3ins long appeared together with four compartment 1st's 24ft in length and a small batch of 2nd's with 21ft bodies.

 

Around 1900, the GER disposed of a number of elderly 4-wheel coaches to various minor railways, including the Rother Valley, which took three; a 4-compartment first, and 2 and 3-compartment brake thirds.

 

In a Model Railway Constructor article in June 1987, R M Jones of the Colonel Stephens Society identified the brake thirds as 21’8” vehicles dating from 1867, and provided drawings.  I hope I'm right in acknowledging Andy G as the supplier of the article, but forgive me if it was some other's kindness.

 

R W Kidner (Carriage Stock of Minor Standard Gauge Railways, Oakwood Press, 1978) gives the RVR carriage livery as “polished teak”, but reckons the ex-GER coaches were probably brown. I reckon he’s right. When GER coaches could no longer scrub up with a fresh coat of varnish, they were painted a slightly reddish “coach brown”.

 

 

What has any of this to do with Castle Aching?

 

Coaches of this vintage, where still extant in the early 1900s, would no doubt have been painted over.  If modelled at the time of their disposal, these RVR/K&ESR coaches would do just as well running on CA as GE coaches.

 

Moreover, it has long been my plan for the WNR to have acquired some of these GER coaches.  The WN invested heavily in the 1890s in new coaching stock, relaying the mainlines to bullhead and attempting to develop Wolfringham into a resort, much as it had earlier succeeded in doing with Birchoverham Next the Sea, creating a second Cromer. The Wolfringham venture failed, and the WN’s various second-hand purchases of locomotives and stock around the turn of the century reflected the need for retrenchment. Fortunately, the company’s fortunes had recovered by 1905.

The Wolfringham branch was downgraded to a Light Railway and left in the charge of a little Fox Walker saddle tank, its sparse passenger traffic conveyed in three elderly second-hand coaches.  Two of these will be the same 1867-vintage brake thirds as the RVR acquired.  

 

This weekend, I've made a start.  It's slow work, but I have got some way with the 2-compartment brake third. 

 

[Annie]

Ooooooo I need to find a copy of that book.

 

Nice work with that brake third James.  Gosh I can remember doing that kind of thing, tricky and painstaking, but oh so very satisfying.  Almost a lost art in these days of etched kits, laser cutting and 3d printing.  A lot easier to do in 'O' gauge though.

[Donw]

Excellent work on the coach James.

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

I like it a lot: old-fashioned doily-cutting; K&ESR references; for the Wolfringham Branch.

 

All boxes ticked.

 

K

[Northroader]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

Ooooooo I need to find a copy of that book.

 

Nice work with that brake third James.  Gosh I can remember doing that kind of thing, tricky and painstaking, but oh so very satisfying.  Almost a lost art in these days of etched kits, laser cutting and 3d printing.  A lot easier to do in 'O' gauge though.

And in brass, too.