Castle Aching

[Hroth]

6 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Blossom still slowly emerging here

 

Amazing how over 150 miles north and east can affect plant growth.  Apart from it being coldish again, you could almost think it was summer here already!

 

[Andy Hayter]

Lucky you.  Several hundred miles to the South and the cherries are just about in blossom.  Almost all trees are still leafless (although the buds are about to break) and the Forsythia is still in flower.  

[Donw]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

Lucky you.  Several hundred miles to the South and the cherries are just about in blossom.  Almost all trees are still leafless (although the buds are about to break) and the Forsythia is still in flower.  

 

I think it might be the hundreds of feet up that is your problem if I remember correctly.

 

I remember Maypole dancing in junior school more fun than most lessons

 

Don

 

 

[Klaus ojo]

On 30/04/2021 at 10:50, Compound2632 said:

 

I read that the Plymouth & Dartmoor Railway was originally (1823) laid on stone blocks, though there's no statement as to what was used on the Lee Moor extension, opened in 1855. That bridge has much more of a look of the early 1850s than the early 1820s about it, to me. So I suppos it's a possibility, though it seems unlikely: the rest of the stone for the bridge would have been quarried locally, so why carry these blocks up the hill? They also look to me to be the wrong shape (curved top) and size, but I've no information on the chair-bearing blocks to compare with.

 

But this does raise the question of how the chairs were secured to the blocks. With wooden sleepers, chairs are secured by through bolts, sometimes supplemented by screw bolts. I suppose I would assume that through bolts would be used for stone sleepers but having now read up on lewises I wonder if the St Peter's keys would have been the solution that would have come most naturally to stonemasons. 

 

How was the hole in the block undercut? Or does a lewis rely solely on the friction between the metal and the rough stone surface? 

 

 

... if you are interested in how securing the chairs: most likely wooden dowels and nails or screws

https://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=2870&forum_id=11

lead - as suggested there as well - is not really suitable.

 

cheers

[Caley Jim]

6 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Blossom still slowly emerging here

Not here it's not!!

 

Jim

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Klaus ojo said:

... if you are interested in how securing the chairs: most likely wooden dowels and nails or screws

https://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=2870&forum_id=11

lead - as suggested there as well - is not really suitable.

 

cheers

 

The wood dowel being the ancestor of the rawlplug. 

[PaulG]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

So I probably can get round the absurd restrictions, but, given the Society's apparent insistence on absurd rules, even after that's pointed out to them, I'm currently thinking more along the lines of 'F- 'em!'. 

 

 

 

Paul the GERS modelling Co-ordinator is not on RMweb, but I've passed on your comments above.

 

Paul

[Schooner]

Better to be present with ten men than absent with ten thousand, said a bloke who knew a bit about Effingham*:

 

 

Can't see why the same shouldn't apply to wagons and the GERS respectively.

 

*It's possible I've misunderstood, being LSWR...

[Regularity]

4 hours ago, Edwardian said:

given the Society's apparent insistence on absurd rules, even after that's pointed out to them, I'm currently thinking more along the lines of 'F- 'em!'

Whilst I understand your frustration, I feel obliged to point out that such comments are less than edifying: given the fuss you are raising on here about them, I would understand if the GERS committee took a similar view of you and showed you the boot. 
Personally, I have found the Society to be nothing other than courteous and helpful - just as I believe the GER generally behaved.

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

Not here it's not!!

 

Jim

Nor here...

[uax6]

Tree nails seem to be the way the chairs were held to stone blocks, and it appears that tree nails were wooden. Dow’s The Railway, british track since 1804 (that’s almost five past 6!) is very informative on theses sorts of things, but sadly there isn’t main photos of early stuff in stone block sleepers. 
 

Andy g

[Hroth]

5 hours ago, uax6 said:

Tree nails seem to be the way the chairs were held to stone blocks, and it appears that tree nails were wooden. Dow’s The Railway, british track since 1804 (that’s almost five past 6!) is very informative on theses sorts of things, but sadly there isn’t main photos of early stuff in stone block sleepers. 
 

Andy g

 

A bit difficult to get photographs of the track in use.

 

A Brief History of Photographic Development

or

A Pre-Grouping History of the Photographic Image

...

 

Mid-1820s:        Niépce produced images that took up to several days of daylight to capture.

1839 onwards: Daguerre published the daguerreotype process

                            William Henry Fox Talbot published the calotype/salt print process

 

Both the daguerreotype and calotype were heavily laboratory based processes. The daguerreotype can be thought of as a "polaroid" as it produced a single positive image, while the calotype was a negative proess and could be used to produce multiple copies of the image.  Both processes had exposure times that descended from hours to minutes and eventually seconds.

 

1850s:                Frederick Scott Archer invented the collodion process. (Wet plate)

 

A cumbersome process still requiring a darkroom to prepare the nagatives for use. They needed to be exposed and developed whilst still wet. Roger Fenton used this process to photograph elements of the Crimean War. Exposure times were in seconds.

 

1871:                The Dry plate, also known as gelatin process was invented by Dr. Richard L. Maddox

 

Dry plates allowed pre-prepared negative plates to be carried and used at will. Development could be weeks or months afterwards. By 1879 they could be purchased commercially, meaning an enthusiastic snapper could photograph all sorts of things, including railway locomotives...  Exposure times were now in fractions of a second.

 

1884:               George Eastman developed a roll film version of the dry plate .

                         Eastman introduced the "Kodak" 100 shot roll film camera, which was returned for processing

                         In 1901 the Kodak "Brownie" was introduced with removable roll films for local processing.

 

Snapshot cameras used exposures of approximately 1/20th of a second, proper cameras would have a range of shutter speeds from 1 second to 1/200th of a second.  As sensitivity of roll film increased higher shutter speeds became available for capable photographers.

 

What this tells us is that railway companies might have employed professional photographers to create records of locomotives, rolling stock and formations from the late 1850s onwards. They might not want to record obsolete things like stone sleeper track in photographic form as it would be an expensive effort in time and material.   Its only with the coming of easily handled, readily available negative material in the late 1870s that amateur snappers with an interest in railways, who would photograph anything appeared, and they would only photograph the latest and greatest.

 

And we'll not go into the differences in colour rendition between orthochromatic and panchromatic film, though infrared photos of locomotive boilers might be fun!

 

All of which goes to explain why there aren't any early photos of stone sleepered permanent way in daily use.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Hroth
Forgot to insert an important date. Doh! And some later odds and ends. Double-Doh!!

[Edwardian]

9 hours ago, Regularity said:

Whilst I understand your frustration, I feel obliged to point out that such comments are less than edifying: given the fuss you are raising on here about them, I would understand if the GERS committee took a similar view of you and showed you the boot. 
Personally, I have found the Society to be nothing other than courteous and helpful - just as I believe the GER generally behaved.

 

I've been thrown out of better places

[Hroth]

39 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

I've been thrown out of better places

Verging on the Groucho quote, "I sent the club a wire stating, PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER."

 

Hope you can persuade them to come to terms with you!

 

[CKPR]

43 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

I've been thrown out of better places

Taking a Marxist (Groucho Tendency) postion, eh ? 

 

Written at the precise moment that Hroth was posting...

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by CKPR

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

12 hours ago, Schooner said:

Better to be present with ten men than absent with ten thousand, said a bloke who knew a bit about Effingham*:

 

 

 

 

Aaah yes I recall that -  c. 1400, it's the only recorded contemporary image of the fabled takeover of the GWR by Tamerlane. He was seeking a better dividend on his shares it it said....  

[Edwardian]

OK, so, I feel I am now leaving the anger part of the cycle and heading into the despair phase. There is a limit to how remorseful I am, even during the despair phase, so this is as close to an apology as I'm likely to make.

 

First let me say that I am entirely unchanged in my views about how a certain line society is organising its 'showcase'; my critique that it is unnecessarily restrictive, illogical and unhelpful remains. I have said so to them. It's unlikely to work for me.

 

That said, clearly the vehemence of my reaction has been uncontrollable and irrational.  I don't think RMWeb is really the place to exhibit an unfolding mental breakdown, so, for that reason, and because I really don't want to be mean to said line society, who, as I've said, are individually charming even though I think their decision-making on this issue is flawed, I will delete or edit as I can the worst of the ranting. 

 

Sorry everyone had to see that, but it brings home to me. yet again, how every time I try to deal with human beings in private life at any level of complexity beyond small-talk with shop assistants, I fail. I shall try to remember this lesson and stop thinking I can behave normally!  The dogs and I seem to get along, and, most of the time, that's all I need to worry about, so I think I'll stick with the lesser mammals for now.

[rocor]

 'F- 'em!'.  That would be a scale of 1:20.3 on 18mm track. This giving a rough approximation for a prototypical gauge of 15". That could suit building a model of Sir Arthur Percival Heywood's miniature railway.

[monkeysarefun]

I have a budgie who is a pretty fast learner and a prolific talker who  a while ago took to saying  "Ba5tards!" at random intervals.

 

He must have picked it up from me but I wasn't aware it was something I habitually did, so it did give me a new awareness of my typical response to most things in life.

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

I think I'll stick with the lesser mammals for now.

 

That's all right. We're here to support you in your time of tribulation.

 

 

[rocor]

16 hours ago, Schooner said:

 

 

*It's possible I've misunderstood, being LSWR...

 

Louisiana Solid Waste Regulations?.

[Andy Hayter]

On 01/05/2021 at 14:49, Donw said:

 

I think it might be the hundreds of feet up that is your problem if I remember correctly.

 

I remember Maypole dancing in junior school more fun than most lessons

 

Don

 

 

 

In part Don you are right that altitude does have an impact, but there is also the impact of a continental climate s opposed to a maritime one.  This year spring has been particularly slow in unfurling and temperatures generally remain several degrees below the average.  

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

... so I think I'll stick with the lesser mammals for now.

 

56 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

That's all right. We're here to support you in your time of tribulation.

 

You don't get lesser than the Etruscan shrew...

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, rocor said:

 

Louisiana Solid Waste Regulations?.

 

I don't know about Louisiana, but Ewwww...

 

[uax6]

7 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

A bit difficult to get photographs of the track in use.

 

A Brief History of Photographic Development

or

A Pre-Grouping History of the Photographic Image

...

 

Mid-1820s:        Niépce produced images that took up to several days of daylight to capture.

1839 onwards: Daguerre published the daguerreotype process

                            William Henry Fox Talbot published the calotype/salt print process

 

Both the daguerreotype and calotype were heavily laboratory based processes. The daguerreotype can be thought of as a "polaroid" as it produced a single positive image, while the calotype was a negative proess and could be used to produce multiple copies of the image.  Both processes had exposure times that descended from hours to minutes and eventually seconds.

 

1850s:                Frederick Scott Archer invented the collodion process. (Wet plate)

 

A cumbersome process still requiring a darkroom to prepare the nagatives for use. They needed to be exposed and developed whilst still wet. Roger Fenton used this process to photograph elements of the Crimean War. Exposure times were in seconds.

 

1871:                The Dry plate, also known as gelatin process was invented by Dr. Richard L. Maddox

 

Dry plates allowed pre-prepared negative plates to be carried and used at will. Development could be weeks or months afterwards. By 1879 they could be purchased commercially, meaning an enthusiastic snapper could photograph all sorts of things, including railway locomotives...  Exposure times were now in fractions of a second.

 

1884:               George Eastman developed a roll film version of the dry plate .

                         Eastman introduced the "Kodak" 100 shot roll film camera, which was returned for processing

                         In 1901 the Kodak "Brownie" was introduced with removable roll films for local processing.

 

Snapshot cameras used exposures of approximately 1/20th of a second, proper cameras would have a range of shutter speeds from 1 second to 1/200th of a second.  As sensitivity of roll film increased higher shutter speeds became available for capable photographers.

 

What this tells us is that railway companies might have employed professional photographers to create records of locomotives, rolling stock and formations from the late 1850s onwards. They might not want to record obsolete things like stone sleeper track in photographic form as it would be an expensive effort in time and material.   Its only with the coming of easily handled, readily available negative material in the late 1870s that amateur snappers with an interest in railways, who would photograph anything appeared, and they would only photograph the latest and greatest.

 

And we'll not go into the differences in colour rendition between orthochromatic and panchromatic film, though infrared photos of locomotive boilers might be fun!

 

All of which goes to explain why there aren't any early photos of stone sleepered permanent way in daily use.

 

 

Ah... I realise that photos from the time would be almost impossible, but there must be examples that still exist that show treenails that could be photo'd now....

 

Andy G

 

 

[Donw]

If we were not allowed to blow our top now and then we would probably all have to be locked up. Personally I like to choose my friends myself and will put up with there behaviour if they put up with mine.

 

Don