Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, drduncan said:

I think you are right to draw a distinction between a through coach and a through portion (2 or more coaches). I also think there should be a distinction between WNR through services and foreign though services coming into the WNR. I think we’re I the WNR financial comptroller I’d be aghast at providing specialist coaching stock for internal (ie WNR only)  through services. I’d insist the operating dept cobble together the required number of seats (1/2/3) from standard coaches, so a through portion might be a 2 or 3 compt brk 3rd to give lots of parcel/luggage space with a 4 compt 1/2 composite. 
 

For foreign through workings the destination companies (in each direction) would often alternate who provided the through coach(es). This would provide the WNR with a rationale to have a bogie brake tri comp design (say 40 or 48 ft) to match that provided by the foreign company - which might mean the chief bean counter might have been put in his place!

D

 

Yes, we would probably to looking at through portions for trips off system. As many or most such workings would cross to the GER, they would need to be dual fitted.  

[Caley Jim]

1 hour ago, webbcompound said:

 The LNWR had several of these type of carriage.

As did the CR. 

 

Jim 

[Edwardian]

Fun idea, a WNR dual fitted 'portion' to go foreign.

 

What might this be?

 

Bogie coaches have been suggested and had crossed my mind, but sticking, for the moment, to 6-wheelers, would something like Luggage Brake - Lav. Third (5)* - Lav First (1)/ Second (2) Brake** work? 

 

*  3 / 3 / Lav / 3 / 3 / 3 

** 2 / 2 / Lav / 1 / Luggage / Guard

 

(choose your compartment carefully)

 

A GER Lav Third:

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Edwardian
Picture

[Annie]

43 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

A GER Lav Third:

 

Yes the notorious GER 'Lav' 6 wheelers without corridor access to the loo.

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

 

Yes the notorious GER 'Lav' 6 wheelers without corridor access to the loo.

 

Yes, indeed.

 

While influence and inspiration for WNR practice is drawn from far afield, my default position is to look at what the GER was doing, assuming the WNR to be a few years behind the GER (which was often a few years behind everyone else!)

[Nearholmer]

Weren’t the GWR through coaches for Dover and Folkestone vaguely saloon-like? I thought they looked like a very pleasant way to travel, perambulating around England in your own sitting-room, with a good picnic, effectively.

[uax6]

The Highland had a couple of 6wh coupe's for through working, interestingly without brake facilities, presuambly the through portion was a 6wh coupe and a 6wh full brake? Interestingly these were in two designs, Jones flat sided, with chariot ends, or later Drummond three layer versions. Or you might be able to do it with a 6wh luggage compo. Theres no need for a guard to travel through, so why provide a full brake van? 

 

The Highland had a lot of luggage compo, mainly in bogie format, the early ones had simple bogies, flat sides amd chariot ends, so there are various ways forward!

 

Andy G

[Compound2632]

8 hours ago, drduncan said:

James,

Just a point of pedantry wrt through coaches - normally (I won’t say exclusively because someone will find exceptions) through coaches were brake composites not ‘normal’ composites. To add to the modellers woes in sourcing such vehicles, unless second class had been abolished by the owning railway they would be brake tri-comps to boot. 
Duncan

 

A single through coach would be a composite with a luggage compartment but not necessarily a brake compartment. Vide the Midland's D508 48 ft clerestory lavatory composites*, which came in roughly equal numbers of composite and brake composite versions; also the 50 ft corridor version built for through working to Scotland - M&GSW and M&NB Joint Stock D468. Equally possible as a through portion is a composite plus 4- or 6-wheel brake van, especially on routes where passengers were likely to have a large amount of luggage, such as to seaside resorts. The Victorians and Edwardians did not travel light!

 

*Of the family of carriages done by Ratio, but alas not included in their range, though Branchlines do a kit with etched sides using the Ratio underframe and roof, but only of the brake composite version.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Compound2632

[Edwardian]

Do Hattons do a 6W luggage Comp?  I think not, only a lav comp. 

 

Cutting and shutting double luggage doors  from one of the Hattons coaches into one would probably result in a nice WNR 1890s Luggage Comp.  

 

 

I plan to cut and shut Hattons' coaches anyway, using 2 6W Brake Thirds to produce one 6-compartment Third and one 4W Luggage Brake.   

 

 

My mainline 6-wheelers will be gas-lit, BTW (and these are early images showing the long-since abandoned Westinghouse cylinders, I note).

 

The freelance 1880s WNR 6-wheelers, which are next on the design menu after the 1870s M&CWR 4-wheelers, are also intended to feature a Luggage Comp. 

 

These, Parishioners may recall, are intended to have large radius upper panel and lights corners and square bottom corners, placing them stylistically between the 1870s and 1890s coaches. 

 

That would make them scarily similar to this HR 'Locker' Composite, which I had not realised as I was planning them:

 

 

However, here we are talking about WNR 1st/2nd Composites.  A single through coach would need all three classes (or would it if travelling along a foreign line that did not recognise Second Class, e.g. the Midland?).  Anyway, something like 3 / 3 / Luggage / 1 / 2 could be cut and shut from a Hattons 6W Brake Third and 6W 5 compt. coach, and could probably end up near enough the 31' body Hattons intended for their chassis. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Edwardian said:

Do Hattons do a 6W luggage Comp?  I think not, only a lav comp. 

 

I tried, I really tried. I nearly cried.

 

The 6-wheel centre luggage composite was found everywhere, lavatory composites were like hen's teeth. But no, the lavatory composite was proving popular to pre-orders...

[Edwardian]

5 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I tried, I really tried. I nearly cried.

 

The 6-wheel centre luggage composite was found everywhere, lavatory composites were like hen's teeth. But no, the lavatory composite was proving popular to pre-orders...

 

So, what you're saying is, lav. comp not luggage comp was the Will of the People?

 

As I recall, one can't argue with that. 

[uax6]

Well you could, as lets face it, most modellers haven't a clue about carriages! If Hattons had put a lugg comp in the listings, I bet they would have had more orders for that, as it seems odd!

 

So you don't fancy an HR hand-me-down then?

 

Andy G

[Edwardian]

7 minutes ago, uax6 said:

Well you could, as lets face it, most modellers haven't a clue about carriages! If Hattons had put a lugg comp in the listings, I bet they would have had more orders for that, as it seems odd!

 

So you don't fancy an HR hand-me-down then?

 

Andy G

 

I hadn't realised some HR coaches were so close to the chosen style for WNR 1880s coaches (it is a by no means a rare style for the period, e.g. companies as diverse as the GER and NER (as recently discussed) built similar).

 

Give the similarities (and there's nice Third in the same range, spotted while looking for NER coaches), I have now ordered a book on Highland carriages by Tatlow.

 

 

So, yes, I am becoming increasingly interested in this company's coaching stock! 

[uax6]

Well I have been drawing, off and on, the side frets for quite a few of the flat sided Jones ones, and have a air few of the drummond ones drawn as well. I just need to get my mojo in gear and get them actually cut out and then start building them....

If there is any you fancy let me know...

 

Andy G

[Donw]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Weren’t the GWR through coaches for Dover and Folkestone vaguely saloon-like? I thought they looked like a very pleasant way to travel, perambulating around England in your own sitting-room, with a good picnic, effectively.

 

Not sure where the coach came from but we used to have meetings of the gauge 0 guild publications committee in a saloon coach attached to the trains on the Dean Forest Railway, sanwiches were supplied for lunch nicely sat round a table very civilised.

Mike the chairman said in reduced non attendance.

 

Don 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

So, what you're saying is, lav. comp not luggage comp was the Will of the People?

 

As I recall, one can't argue with that. 

 

Well, as we know, the Will of the People can be manipulated by various means. I'm not saying that Hattons are doing lavatory composites rather than luggage composites as a consequence of Putin's interference! Even if I thought it it might be too dangerous to say it. I'm sure Putin is building a large pre-Grouping layout in the basement of the Lubyanka... 

 

Rather, I attribute it to inadequate reporting of the facts and the deficiencies of our education system. But perhaps that's a topic for the Parish Council.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, uax6 said:

Well I have been drawing, off and on, the side frets for quite a few of the flat sided Jones ones, and have a air few of the drummond ones drawn as well. I just need to get my mojo in gear and get them actually cut out and then start building them....

If there is any you fancy let me know...

 

Andy G

 

Brilliant! 

 

Let me get a grip on the basics and I'll be in touch.

 

Thanks muchly.

[Annie]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The 6-wheel centre luggage composite was found everywhere, lavatory composites were like hen's teeth. But no, the lavatory composite was proving popular to pre-orders...

Suddenly I find myself completely vindicated for running centre luggage composites in passenger trains on my Norfolk layout.

This is the Moxbury Barrow Hills & Foxhollow Extension Railway one, but I also did a West Norfolk version that I never finished properly for some unknown reason.

 

[rocor]

16 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Well, as we know, the Will of the People can be manipulated by various means. I'm not saying that Hattons are doing lavatory composites rather than luggage composites as a consequence of Putin's interference! Even if I thought it it might be too dangerous to say it. I'm sure Putin is building a large pre-Grouping layout in the basement of the Lubyanka... 

 

Rather, I attribute it to inadequate reporting of the facts and the deficiencies of our education system. But perhaps that's a topic for the Parish Council.

 

If Vladimir Vladimirovich, wants to run any stock on the layout that is out of period, I am sure that no one will object.

 

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, rocor said:

If Vladimir Vladimirovich, wants to run any stock on the layout that is out of period, I am sure that no one will object.

 

... unless it's a one-way ticket on the Trans-Siberian Railway they're after.

[Edwardian]

Better known for stopping people taking trains ....

 

[Hroth]

3 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Better known for stopping people taking trains ....

 

 

You are Ernest Marples and I claim my £5!

 

[Edwardian]

Ernest Marples  ... somehow the word "spiv" suddenly doesn't seem nasty enough

[Hroth]

I just googled images of him - he reminds me of the sort of character played by Terry-Thomas in 1950s/60s comedies.

 

Marples Wikipedia

 

Terry-Thomas Wikipedia

 

Without the humour.

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Hroth
Clarification...

[Nearholmer]

I actually thought that was Terry Thomas.