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On 02/04/2022 at 20:30, figworthy said:

Towards the end of my working life, I concluded that "management incompetence" was a third certainty.

That’s because the Parkinson principle never fully applies: although people rise to one level above their competency, they don’t drop back to their competency. What they usually do is develop a competency for shifting the blame, which sees them elevated even further beyond their natural ceiling…

 

Then there’s the Government Minister Model, where (with just a few exceptions*) no one is ever in post long enough to do much more that halt or change the previous incumbent’s policies, and moves on before their own limitations are apparent. 
 

* Jack Straw as Home Secretary, a firebrand left-winger in his day who was acknowledged to have been the most illiberal occupant in history. Until Priti Patel. And Theresa May as Home Secretary. So controlling that nothing got done. 

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To be fair to Government Ministers it would be easier to dock a large tanker  at Watchet than to steer the civil service. No Minister can  specify all the details so unless their policy suits their branch of the civil service it will not be properly implemented. Plus if it doesn't suit the treasury funding will be difficult.

 

Don

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1 minute ago, Donw said:

To be fair to Government Ministers it would be easier to dock a large tanker  at Watchet than to steer the civil service. No Minister can  specify all the details so unless their policy suits their branch of the civil service it will not be properly implemented.

I think the major role of the civil service is to prevent Radical Ministerial Intervention, to save the system from the shock of rapid change. This may not always be a bad thing.

Quote

Plus if it doesn't suit the treasury funding will be difficult.

Ah yes. Ultimately, if No. 11 doesn’t like it, it won’t happen.

And you can’t hide it from the Treasury for very long.

 

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41 minutes ago, Regularity said:

That’s because the Parkinson principle never fully applies: although people rise to one level above their competency, they don’t drop back to their competency. What they usually do is develop a competency for shifting the blame, which sees them elevated even further beyond their natural ceiling…

 

Then there’s the Government Minister Model, where (with just a few exceptions*) no one is ever in post long enough to do much more that halt or change the previous incumbent’s policies, and moves on before their own limitations are apparent. 
 

* Jack Straw as Home Secretary, a firebrand left-winger in his day who was acknowledged to have been the most illiberal occupant in history. Until Priti Patel. And Theresa May as Home Secretary. So controlling that nothing got done. 

 

That's similar to the "Boy wonder" principle in engineering and manufacturing 

They come along with a glowing reference for having saved time and money in another business by cutting back on maintenance schedules, minimizing materials and component stock in line with the "Just in time" principles. (which doesn't work in specialist and small volume production scenarios) They then leave for the next post with a glowing reference, about six months before it's realised that their system is unsustainable.

 

Cue missed targets, critical path breakdowns, all the snags of outsourcing and looming redundancies.

 

Meanwhile, as a sweetener in his new job, boy wonder is given an even bigger BMW...

 

 

Edited by MrWolf
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5 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

That's similar to the "Boy wonder" principle in engineering and manufacturing 

Sometimes such people are given glowing references to help move them on from where they are currently employed…

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Sounds awfully like our military managements?

Although retarded now [put out to grass?] as a [UN] civil servant of the non-deskbound variety [I used to work a lot outside]...much of my Establishment's management [and latterly , my own] was  sourced from the Forces...Army,RAF, occasionally the odd RM too....[the place was tri-service]..

The issue was, the length of time they were in post, before moving on [progressing, I think they call it?]...

Much the same sort of scenario would occur, if left unchecked, as mentioned by posters above.

 

As an Establishment, the problems were kept in check by the use of  a 'management-workforce' [me?] committee.

All departments of the Establishment were represented, but the Instructors formed by far the largest body of the workforce...all 'specialists' in military or MoD terms, all pretty irreplaceable too, due to successive Government blanket interventions on recruitment.

Not merely a dozen or so, but actually, [at one time] many many hundreds....most graded at Band D  in Civil Service terms [bloody nuisances, in ministerial terms], the most influential [and numerically represented] on the 'committee' was the local 'union'....[PCS eventually, and again, we were a 'nuisance' due to sheer numbers...]

In actuality, senior military management really welcomed the committee principle. Most didn't initially have a clue how to 'manage' a civilian workforce [imagine trying to herd cats? Nothing in the military management handbook about how to herd cats!], but were guided and aided in their endeavours.

 

Some would have said, we ''civilianised'' too may senior military personnel...but that is purely anecdotal....so to speak.

 

But, the main purpose of the workforce management committee [purely localised] was that, every new 'idea' that spurted from colonels or majors or groupies or whatever, was scrutinized, and often deterred, citing past evidence, and what went wrong.

The results were, that ''innovative'' ideas [change is always good, a military mantra, so it seemed?], were stifled if the eventual outcome, 2 years down the line, would prove detrimental.

The 'workforce ' [as above] were far from short-term in service.....nearly all instructors being 'in it' for the very long haul...think 10, 15, or 20 years-plus....which was unusual for specialists in any Government department.  Most of the turnover resulted from retirement or the falling-off of one's perch.

 

SHifting upwards wasn't an option really, but latterly, folk would get the sack for infringements of Civil Service T&Cs...But this was, & is, right across the CS board nowadays.

BIG culture shock for the grey deskbound types.

 

The advantage of my old Establishment was that, within it there were a multitude of departments, some working world-wide. One could, if so desired, shift from one to another [on merit, usually], as the mood struck......Everybody 'started' off as an Instructor....and their 'careers' were built on that.  Pay usually remained the same [unless one wanted to g for an upgraded post, not so common], but, what one 'did' for a living changed, within the parameters.

For example, departments like 'validation' governed the training conducted throughout the military. [In our field , actually numerically, the largest], which consisted of experienced Instructors doing summat else [and annoying military managements world-wide]...

''Course design'' was another.....again the remit was world-wide, not just our Establishment.

Personally, I got to 'play' with a lot of fun stuff....

Everything from circus tricks to serious stuff [all in terms of driving and associated skills]...actually pushing reluctant personnel through their various licences was but a quite small part of  what was available if one wished to have a change. Narrowly escaped being an Examiner...was accepted, courses done,, etc, but decided I wanted to do summat else instead.....

My 2nd line manager was, eventually, a Major....which presented problems since my own line manager [a C2 if that means anything to anyone?] was of the same rank equivalence to a Major....one could not have a line manager of the same rank or grade as oneself.....

However, the MAjor was a skilled individual, militarily, and there wasn't a Lt Colonel available with the same skillset....so we all rubbed along, quite nicely as it happened.

He became quite enthusiastic about his hundred-odd old fart instructors...who had the skill sets to train anybody in anything, so to speak....relevantly, of course. His one big problem was, his workforce was becoming ever older. Which meant, the numbers leaving for retirement, etc etc would exceed the numbers being qualified sufficiently to slide in at the bottom, such were the established military qualifications criteria.  Again, a legacy of short-sighted political  recruitment policies of decades ago [now].

Bless him, I dunno if he's still around  nowadays?  I believe he refused the chance of promotion to take the job originally? Now they have had to 'top up' the workforce with suitably qualified military personnel...which will cost them a fortune when compared to Civil Servants, or, even, contractors [which, when I was there, had proven to be unworkable given the types of training conducted.]   The problem military personnel had wasn't the 'qualifications', but the skills and experience in delivering.   Used to come across that issue all the time when undergoing the various training courses myself....we were often mixed up together on training courses. OK, so I, personally,  would be exempted from a lot of the  'running around' that used to occur....but we 'civvies' brought skills to the table that complemented those of the  military personnel.  Which was useful to everybody.

They all called me 'sir'......oddly, even Colonels......and a lot of the older instructors were known more by their first names, which I had no issues with, regardless of who or what was addressing me.

 

One became 'known'....one was more than just a 'face' to the hundreds and thousands who came through the sausage factory...

 

Golly gosh, a chap just a few doors up from me in my village, is a serving senior NCO....and remembered having been trained by me years ago, in some aspect or other of my world.  Not forgetting the Powergen pole crane operative who, when we were placed 'underground' last year, got chatting, and 'knew' my face....turned out he was ex-military, and I had taught him to drive off road, amongst other things...

Thankfully, folk have ceased asking me, on a random basis, what time the next bus is....

How the world has changed??

 

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Is there a “school run” involved as well? Anyway, good to hear you’ve moved alright. We want pictures! (If ever they come back, I had a nasty turn this afternoon, logging in after lunch and finding the site was discompooperated, fortunately it was only temporary)

 

p.s. I clicked on what is possibly the “friendly/supportive” emoji, but as they’re currently blank rectangles, I may have inadvertently clicked on the “kiss my a***” one, in which case I hope you don’t take it amiss.

Edited by Northroader
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2 hours ago, Northroader said:

Is there a “school run” involved as well? Anyway, good to hear you’ve moved alright. We want pictures! (If ever they come back, I had a nasty turn this afternoon, logging in after lunch and finding the site was discompooperated, fortunately it was only temporary)

 

The school run is a little longer now we've moved. The choice used to be via a castle or an abbey. Now it's between a castle and an abbey or two castles, so we've move one castle further away from the school.

 

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

p.s. I clicked on what is possibly the “friendly/supportive” emoji, but as they’re currently blank rectangles, I may have inadvertently clicked on the “kiss my a***” one, in which case I hope you don’t take it amiss.

 

Me too!

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31 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

The school run is a little longer now we've moved. The choice used to be via a castle or an abbey. Now it's between a castle and an abbey or two castles, so we've move one castle further away from the school.

 

Life with children is a game of chess. 

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1 minute ago, Nearholmer said:

My youngest daughter, being a child, insists that it is possible to change them at will (her will, not mine) 

 

Sounds like she's ahead of the game, that knowledge will stand her in good stead should she ever decide to marry! 

 

My daughter, who is 14, is the cause of much fatherly anxiety; for whoever she starts dating.

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Really glad to hear you have somewhere wind-, water- and vermin-tight. Moving sounds like it was one of those "Wouldn't have chosen to do it, but it's for the best" things. Besides, if the new home is that much drier, that can only be good for the longevity of Castle Aching and its card buildings.

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Good news on the move, we are also about to move house, similar problems with our rented property.

The only reason why we don't suffer damp is because we live on the first floor, but we do get the occasional ceiling leak from a badly reroofed bay window.

I see that your interior designers were the same cheapskates who did our place. Same paint, same carpet. Fed up unraveling bits of that carpet from the vacuum cleaner!

 

 

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9 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Remember, the Mortham Trustees wanted a 15% rent increase for the privilege of remaining in this property. 

And now I suppose the Mordor Mortham Trustees have suffered a 100% income reduction since it's unlikely they'll get anybody else to live there.

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4 hours ago, Annie said:

And now I suppose the Mordor Mortham Trustees have suffered a 100% income reduction since it's unlikely they'll get anybody else to live there.

 

Do the minimum, patch over cheaply so everything looks superficially fine and then let it to some other mug at an even higher rent would be my guess.

 

Do I see them lining the roof, adding to the mere wisp of rockwool in the attic, replacing the faulty section of the ground floor socket circuit or the several ceiling lights that blow bulbs constantly? Do I see them tackling the fundamental problem of rising damp through the property? Do I foresee them replacing the boiler which is almost as old as I am with one energy efficient or the rusting old radiators that produce very little heat for the money spent on fuel oil?

 

 

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Your new place looks to be a whole lot better by many percentage points so definitely a step up in every way from Rising Damp Farm.  It will be much better for you and your children's health as well.

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20 hours ago, Edwardian said:

You can also see where the rats have burrowed through from the empty property next door. I take a strong line on rats, so apologies to those with tender consciences, but I exterminated them all and they haven't been back.  

 

 

What though of the problem of Zombie rats seeking their revenge?

 

 MV5BMTY5MzI3MDcwNl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwODUw

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