Castle Aching

[Hroth]

Or the bottom shelf could be less deep so it would extend over the double wall socket, allowing for a pair of 3 pin plugs to be inserted in the socket and wired to a double socket in the side of the bookcase.

 

A bit tidier than a hole in the back, with wires trailing amongst the books!

 

[Annie]

What a wonderful set of bookshelves.  Very nice, very nice indeed.

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

What a wonderful set of bookshelves.  Very nice, very nice indeed.

 

Agreed. I was being distracted into commenting on a minor point before.

 

Now James can call the plasterers and fresco-painters in to do the ceiling:

 

 

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Agreed. I was being distracted into commenting on a minor point before.

 

Now James can call the plasterers and fresco-painters in to do the ceiling:

 

 

 

There's so much wasted space in that room.

 

Where's the model railway?

 

You could probably get an accurate model of the WCML in there!

 

[Caley Jim]

37 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

There's so much wasted space in that room.

 

Where's the model railway?

 

You could probably get an accurate model of the WCML in there!

 

Certainly in 2FS! 😆

 

Jim (Sorry, couldn't resist a plug!  Windae picked!)

[Hroth]

8 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

Certainly in 2FS! 😆

 

Jim (Sorry, couldn't resist a plug!  Windae picked!)

 

In 2FS you'd never get finished, better stick to bog standard N gauge....  :-)

[Compound2632]

I was thinking oodles of tinplate laid out on the floor...

[Michael Crofts]

Hello from a long-term lurker, inspired by all the recent talk of Durham to request that if your path takes you that way you consider visiting the Durham Indoor Market in our cherished 19th century Market Hall where we have recently installed a 45mm gauge model railway (which the Manager used to call a train set). This is an attempt to entice children into the place and it is working. It was constructed in sections at my home (but not by me) and taken up in vans.

 

My family has been part of the Markets Company for 171 years (of which the last 32 years has been my stint, most recently as Chairman) and we have to keep thinking of ways to reinvent the place so that it stands a fighting chance of lasting another 171 years, hence the model railway. Anyway, this is a shameless plug and should be treated with the disdain it deserves, but hopefully it won't be declared ultra vires and deleted by the Committee.

 

By the way, I think the best value hotel in Durham at the moment is the Bannatyne. I'm just a customer - no connection. I have gone right off Premier Inns.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Michael Crofts

[Edwardian]

5 minutes ago, Michael Crofts said:

Hello from a long-term lurker, inspired by all the recent talk of Durham to request that if your path takes you that way you consider visiting the Durham Indoor Market in our cherished 19th century Market Hall where we have recently installed a 45mm gauge model railway (which the Manager insists on calling a train set). This is an attempt to entice children into the place and it is working. It was constructed in sections at my home (but not by me) and taken up in vans.

 

My family has been part of the Markets Company for 171 years (of which the last 32 years has been my stint, most recently as Chairman) and we have to keep thinking of ways to reinvent the place so that it stands a fighting chance of lasting another 171 years, hence the model railway. Anyway, this is a shameless plug and should be treated with the disdain it deserves, but hopefully it won't be declared ultra vires and deleted by the Committee.

 

By the way, I think the best value hotel in Durham at the moment is the Bannatyne. I'm just a customer - no connection. I have gone right off Premier Inns.

 

 

Plug away and more strength to your elbow.

 

And thank you for lurking and posting.

 

So, this most excellent building (that I have long craved to model)?

 

 

I will be sure to look in.

[Compound2632]

Alas the current prognosis is for no further excuses to visit Durham as No. 1 Son moves elsewhere.

[Edwardian]

5 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Alas the current prognosis is for no further excuses to visit Durham as No. 1 Son moves elsewhere.

 

Time to send No.2?

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Time to send No.2?

 

He's just started his second year at Oxford. This has the advantage of being very much nearer, especially as he's a musician - president of his college music society this year - so we can get to his concerts. 

[Michael Crofts]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

 

Plug away and more strength to your elbow.

 

And thank you for lurking and posting.

 

So, this most excellent building (that I have long craved to model)?

 

 

I will be sure to look in.

Yes, that's it. Well, parts of it. If you let me know when you would like to visit I will try and arrange a short guided tour. I live 280 miles away so it probably won't be me that shows you round.

 

By the way your nice photo is "historic". To the left is the Guild Hall (which is also the Town Hall) and further left, out of shot, is the main entrance to the Indoor Market. The entrance you see with the red canopy is the "Fish Entrance" (because that's where the fishmongers were - and we still have one) which leads to the "Three Day End" which used to be open only 3 days a week. It's all 6 days a week now. And to the right of that is the historic bit, the Tourist Information Centre (TIC). This end (or side) of the market was, when I joined the board, leased from the City Council. We managed to purchase the freehold (if we hadn't done that we wouldn't be there now) and the City then leased back the TIC. Oh my word, that caused some raised hackles. Sadly the TIC then decanted itself to the new development which caused such trouble for the City hierarchy that then existed, and then it closed, so now there is no TIC in Durham.

 

Your photo also shows the surface of the Market Place which was re-laid as part of an extraordinarily expensive scheme using taxpayer money which included a "modern" "hidden" drainage scheme. When it was being put in I looked at it and said 'It won't work'. It doesn't.

 

Under the flagstones to the left is the last public lavatory of Durham City Centre. It's intact, just as it was when the last cistern was flushed, but it's  blocked off and inaccessible, leaving the Market Hall to provide the only available lavatory, which costs a fortune to run, and for which we have to pay all the costs. One thing the Edwardians got right (and the Victorians too in the second half of their epoch) was public toilets. Now they seem to be a thing of the past. Not a very edifying subject but they are an essential component of a civilised society, and they are gradually disappearing everywhere you look, often replaced by signs instructing inhabitants and visitors not to U or D in the street.

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, Michael Crofts said:

Under the flagstones to the left is the last public lavatory of Durham City Centre. 

 

There's one on the corner of Palace Green, though the queue at graduation was a sight to behold.

[Michael Crofts]

43 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

There's one on the corner of Palace Green, though the queue at graduation was a sight to behold.

Well, yes, but Palace Green is the Castle/Cathedral end of the peninsula, not really the City Centre which I would say is the Market Place.

And I'm not surprised there was a queue.

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Michael Crofts said:

Well, yes, but Palace Green is the Castle/Cathedral end of the peninsula, not really the City Centre which I would say is the Market Place.

 

My perception of the geography is coloured by No. 1 Son's first year accommodation being well down the South Bailey, rather further from the Place Green loos than is the Market Place! 

[brumtb]

16 hours ago, Michael Crofts said:

Yes, that's it. Well, parts of it. If you let me know when you would like to visit I will try and arrange a short guided tour. I live 280 miles away so it probably won't be me that shows you round.

 

By the way your nice photo is "historic". To the left is the Guild Hall (which is also the Town Hall) and further left, out of shot, is the main entrance to the Indoor Market. The entrance you see with the red canopy is the "Fish Entrance" (because that's where the fishmongers were - and we still have one) which leads to the "Three Day End" which used to be open only 3 days a week. It's all 6 days a week now. And to the right of that is the historic bit, the Tourist Information Centre (TIC). This end (or side) of the market was, when I joined the board, leased from the City Council. We managed to purchase the freehold (if we hadn't done that we wouldn't be there now) and the City then leased back the TIC. Oh my word, that caused some raised hackles. Sadly the TIC then decanted itself to the new development which caused such trouble for the City hierarchy that then existed, and then it closed, so now there is no TIC in Durham.

 

Your photo also shows the surface of the Market Place which was re-laid as part of an extraordinarily expensive scheme using taxpayer money which included a "modern" "hidden" drainage scheme. When it was being put in I looked at it and said 'It won't work'. It doesn't.

 

Under the flagstones to the left is the last public lavatory of Durham City Centre. It's intact, just as it was when the last cistern was flushed, but it's  blocked off and inaccessible, leaving the Market Hall to provide the only available lavatory, which costs a fortune to run, and for which we have to pay all the costs. One thing the Edwardians got right (and the Victorians too in the second half of their epoch) was public toilets. Now they seem to be a thing of the past. Not a very edifying subject but they are an essential component of a civilised society, and they are gradually disappearing everywhere you look, often replaced by signs instructing inhabitants and visitors not to U or D in the street.

Thank you for the background information, most interesting.   My wife and I visited Durham a couple of weeks ago and really enjoyed our stay.  Whilst in the Market Place a fellow visitor was heard to comment that they had left the tramlines in place but he was advised that the "lines" were part of a drainage system.  Interestingly water was flowing across the surface whist a couple of council workmen looked on!

Tony

[drmditch]

18 hours ago, Michael Crofts said:

Well, yes, but Palace Green is the Castle/Cathedral end of the peninsula, not really the City Centre which I would say is the Market Place.

And I'm not surprised there was a queue.

I think you may be missing the point - the centre of Durham is the Cathedral (and to a lesser extent the Castle) on the peninsula. The town and market place are just a 'supporting add-on'.

Just because the 21st century judges things from it's own limited perspective doesn't invalidate the work of centuries.

[Compound2632]

Also, I think, a certain town / gown difference in perception.

 

Though arriving from the A1(M), one could be forgiven for thinking that the Prince Bishop's car park was the centre.

 

How many cars does a bishop need, even a princely one?

[Northroader]

South Bailey appears in the shipping forecast, doesn’t it?

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Northroader said:

South Bailey appears in the shipping forecast, doesn’t it?

 

You confound South Utsire, off the Norwegian coast, and Bailey, west of Faeroes. I suspect that Trevor Bailey may be lurking in the recesses of your AM radio memory, too.

[Northroader]

Then there’s a Durham Fitzroy station?

[Compound2632]

5 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Then there’s a Durham Fitzroy station?

 

This is starting to get like one of those daft tube maps...

[Edwardian]

Shildon show this afternoon ....

 

 

The name of this 7mm layout only makes sense if you speak LNER ....

 

 

G15:

 

 

 

Class 209:

 

 

Class K:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dalefoot (Bridge Road), a clever split level design:

 

 

 

 

 

Our own JimFin with Neuburgs (1913 and 2013) (HO), as ever, good to see Jim and good to see the two layouts together. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dunstan Harbour (OO):

 

 

 

 

 

 

Woodcroft (EM):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Edwardian
spelling

[Edwardian]

Some input, please.

 

I'd like to revert to the designer during the course of tomorrow, but the Luggage Brake is going to take more input as it's a freelance vehicle based upon the prototype MC&WCo coaches supplied to the LSWR.

 

 

Above is what the designer has drawn so far, based upon my very crude mock-up below.

 

My thoughts on basic dimensions were:

 

- It could be quite short and as a full brake should probably the shortest of the 4 designs. As these are early 1870s coaches, they are small. Stroudley's classic 26' 4-wheelers were a very modern design in this era, with the MC&WCo designs more typical. The respective body lengths for the other WNR MC&WCo carriages in the set are: Brake Third 25', Third, 23' 8" and 1st-2nd Comp. 24'.  

 

- Considering this and looking at some other prototypes, I thought that I'd aim for a Luggage Brake at 21' over the body.  A suitable w/b seemed to be 12' to 12'3".

 

Translating this and my crude illustration into a scale drawing reveals some issues, and the designers needs to know what adjustments to make:

 

- Let's start with the wheelbase. Even at 12' (48mm) there is some overlap with the spring shoes over the ends of the solebars.  The options would appear to be (i) shorter springs, (ii) a different (shorter) spring shoe design, (iii) a shorter w/b, or, (iv) a combination of the above.

 

- The easiest option would be to reduce the w/b. That would certainly be possible. In relation to, this, I think:

• I need not be too influenced by the Stroudley example. As I not above, his designs were very modern and not typical for the 1870s, for all they had become the by-word for small and old-fashioned by the time of their demise. Stroudley's 4-wheel 1870s brakes were 20' over the body with a 12'3" w/b, in case anyone was wondering.
• Stroudley used shorter springs than the MC&WCo vehicles and more modern short passenger vehicles tend to have shorter springs and longer w/bs.  
• Returning to 1870s practice, for instance,:
  • A HR  brake of 1870 has a 20'6" body and 11'6" w/b
  • A LSWR brake of 1871 has a 22' body and 11'6" w/b.

If reducing the w/b to 11'6" (46mm) fixes the problem, that would seem to be the way to go, but what if it doesn't?

 

- The panel arrangement does not fill the space. My first thought is that, though I could reduce the body length, given the issue with the spring length or w/b, I probably don't want to go under the suggested 21' .  My thoughts are:

• Obviously both eaves and waist panels are extended to the edge of the panels or windows above them and are continuous between the guard's door and the luggage doors.
•  For the vertical blind panels:
  • Between the guard's door and the luggage doors, increase the number of panels from 3 to 4  and extend over the length of the area available;
  • Between the luggage doors and the end, increase the number of panels from 2 to 3  and extend over the length of the area available.

- As the designer has already noted, the oil pot to be over the centre-line of the guard's door.

 

- What about the foot boards?  Bother the LSWR example given above sport separate upper and lower footboards the full length as built, while the HR one has both upper and lower footboards the full length (as rebuilt), thought I should have assumed placing them below the doors only.

.