Castle Aching

[Compound2632]

Point taken.  As I said, I'm not a physicist, nor am I an engineer!

 

Jim

... but a far better modeller than I'll ever be.

[scotcent]

 

Coaches with axleguards outside the solebars are OK if you are building them rigid in 4mm scale, as the journals were in the usual position. Standard pinpoint bearings and axles should work. They are the very devil if you want springing or compensation. The LRM kits for NLR coaches (and for similar LNWR vehicles, like Mansion House stock) have inside bearings with compensation. I've designed, but not yet built, an alternative suspension with inside bearings and springs. I'll post about this when I have it working.

 

MJT  units,  sold  for  compensating  RTR  vehicles,  work  inside  the  wheels,  and  allow  the  axle  to  rock  without  affecting  the  dummy  axleguards / axleboxes / springs.  I  have  designed  and  had  etched  a  unit  to  provide  full  springing  for  these  vehicles  with  outside  axleguards,  but  you  need  to  be  fairly  obsessive  about  springing  to  be  bothered  with  it.......

 

Allan  F

 

P S  My  etcher  is  also  doing  cosmetic  axleguards  in  brass  in  a  number  of  different  shapes.  These  are  of  course  entirely  non - load - bearing  and  are  attached  with  cyano  to  the  plastic  solebars.

Edited September 12, 2017 by scotcent

[laurenceb]

Would it make it easier to change the springs when necessary?

[Londontram]

To give you some idea of the parts that go into a Silhouette cut outside W iron chassis heres the basic bits ready to cut for an 1860s pre diagram book Caledonian cattle wagon with 9ft wheel base.

The dark gray parts to the top are the chassis base/floor and the head stocks which are cut in 20 thou and once doubled up become 40 thou thick. The gap of the sole bars which dictates if it has outside or inside W irons is controlled by the width of the main floor section which is either 23.5mm for outside W irons or 25mm to make room for etched inside W irons.

 

Below these are the components that make up the solebars all cut in 10 thou with four sides laminated together to make them 40 thou thick. There made up of two layers with the springs attached then on top of these two layers with the W irons and to finish it off and to give the out side iron effect a separate W iron on the out side (seen in the middle between the main sole bar sides. The funny looking bits above the solebars are the parts for the single wooden block brake shoe and linkage.

 

The brass bearings are set directly into pre drilled holes in the W irons and the only item not cut on the silhouette is the axle boxes which are from Wizard (though I'm working on that)

 

When drawing a sole bar I start with a strip 4mm deep and as long as is needed for the wheel base of the wagon, I then after working out there position overlay on the W irons of the design required from a selection of pre drawn ones shown here.

Note also the springs which are added the same way. Once the components are in the right position the drawing is set to union which merges everything as one drawing. Its then ready to cut. I keep it simple and add bolt and strapping detail as required when its assembled. Doing it this way means I can alter the length of a chassis and the W iron type in a matter of minutes.

 

If making a sole bar for inside etched W irons I just cut two lengths of 4mm deep 20 thou plasticard and laminate them together adding the crown plates and bolts as required when assembled

 

Hope this gives you some ideas of how to go about it,

                                                                     Steve

Edited September 13, 2017 by Londontram

[Edwardian]

To give you some idea of the parts that go into a Silhouette cut outside W iron chassis heres the basic bits ready to cut for an 1860s pre diagram book Caledonian cattle wagon with 9ft wheel base.

wagon chassis.jpg

The dark gray parts to the top are the chassis base/floor and the head stocks which are cut in 20 thou and once doubled up become 40 thou thick. The gap of the sole bars which dictates if it has outside or inside W irons is controlled by the width of the main floor section which is either 23.5mm for outside W irons or 25mm to make room for etched inside W irons.

 

Below these are the components that make up the solebars all cut in 10 thou with four sides laminated together to make them 40 thou thick. There made up of two layers with the springs attached then on top of these two layers with the W irons and to finish it off and to give the out side iron effect a separate W iron on the out side (seen in the middle between the main sole bar sides. The funny looking bits above the solebars are the parts for the single wooden block brake shoe and linkage.

 

The brass bearings are set directly into pre drilled holes in the W irons and the only item not cut on the silhouette is the axle boxes which are from Wizard (though I'm working on that)

 

When drawing a sole bar I start with a strip 4mm deep and as long as is needed for the wheel base of the wagon, I then after working out there position overlay on the W irons of the design required from a selection of pre drawn ones shown here.

W iron selection.jpg

Note also the springs which are added the same way. Once the components are in the right position the drawing is set to union which merges everything as one drawing. Its then ready to cut. I keep it simple and add bolt and strapping detail as required when its assembled. Doing it this way means I can alter the length of a chassis and the W iron type in a matter of minutes.

 

If making a sole bar for inside etched W irons I just cut two lengths of 4mm deep 20 thou plasticard and laminate them together adding the crown plates and bolts as required when assembled

 

Hope this gives you some ideas of how to go about it,

                                                                     Steve

 

Brilliant, Steve.

 

Another reason why Silhouette must ultimately be the way to go for many needs.

 

And, of course, infinitely reproduceable.

 

Apart from my well-known failure to get on with the software, at present I could not contemplate the outlay on a cutter.  It would be a very laborious task without a cutter, and require an both accuracy and a consistency that I would struggle to achieve.

 

In the meantime, I had thought of something like these: http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2292.php.  I would not attempt any form of compensation, as this would be to complicate life unnecessarily. If I can't lay OO track well enough to stop stock falling off it, I will have failed completely.  I would need to be able to pull one wheel off each axle.  Can you do this with Alan Gibson rolling stock wheels, I've never yet had cause to try?

 

My only concern is that, as they are designed for wagons (with 12mm wheels), there might be insufficient clearance for 14mm coach wheels.  At £5 for 4 vehicles, this could be an elegant and cost-effective solution.

 

The external axle-guards, the springs and axle-boxes, would be purely cosmetic.  There would be no need for bearing-cups and, crucially, no need to line these elements up accurately in order to achieve a free running vehicle.

[Compound2632]

In the meantime, I had thought of something like these: http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2292.php.  I would not attempt any form of compensation, as this would be to complicate life unnecessarily. If I can't lay OO track well enough to stop stock falling off it, I will have failed completely.  I would need to be able to pull one wheel off each axle.  Can you do this with Alan Gibson rolling stock wheels, I've never yet had cause to try?

 

My only concern is that, as they are designed for wagons (with 12mm wheels), there might be insufficient clearance for 14mm coach wheels.  At £5 for 4 vehicles, this could be an elegant and cost-effective solution.

 

I used these - or rather the full-height EM/P4 version - in the dim and distant past to compensate P4 wagons (so for one axle only - the other axle used conventional pin-point bearings in the axleboxes). I used them with Alan Gibson wheelsets, removing and replacing one wheel - it doesn't require any specialised equipment (I confess to not even using a back-to-back gauge, just measuring up to another wheelset - even more get-away-with-able in 00). What was a real pain was filing down the pin points of the hard steel axles to give sufficient clearance for the axle to rock. On reflection, this would probably be unnecessary if I'd drilled out the back of the axleboxes as if to take a 2 mm diameter bearing anyway - this would certainly be the way to go for fixed axles, where there's no need to cater for movement.

 

For fixed axles, I'd be tempted to try the taller version 2290 - not using the compensation base saves about 1 mm in height, just right if using 14 mm rather than 12 mm dia wheels. Of course the unit can always be packed to the right height. For a longer-wheelbase 4-wheel carriage, it might be worth compensating one axle anyway - just in case you end up with a slight twist in the floor as much as imperfections in the track.

 

These units will give more rolling resistance than pin-point bearings but that should not matter for short trains. You could open up the holes and use top hat bearings.

[Caley Jim]

Would it make it easier to change the springs when necessary?

That thought occurred to me too.

 

Jim

[Caley Jim]

To give you some idea of the parts that go into a Silhouette cut outside W iron chassis heres the basic bits ready to cut for an 1860s pre diagram book Caledonian cattle wagon with 9ft wheel base.

And here's what the finished article looks like (albeit from an etched kit in 2FS)

 

 

The far one has the later boarded up ends.

 

This what the etch artwork looks like.  I'll leave you to work out how it goes together!

 

 

Jim  (Edited to attach a better image of the etch)

Edited September 13, 2017 by Caley Jim

[Londontram]

Interesting Jim I do admire you doing all this in 2mm I'm struggling with my eyes and fingers in 4mm.

 

This might interest you here's the drawings for the ends and sides of the cattle wagon drawn in Inkscape for the silhouette its surprising how similar they look to yours

 

 

I'm building the first few with the open ends then I might do a couple with the boarded up ends and modified doors with more planking on.

[Caley Jim]

Interesting Jim I do admire you doing all this in 2mm I'm struggling with my eyes and fingers in 4mm.

I have to admit to using magnification for many years now! 

 

This might interest you here's the drawings for the ends and sides of the cattle wagon drawn in Inkscape for the silhouette its surprising how similar they look to yours

 

Why shouldn't they, given that it's the same wagon  truck!

 

Question, when is a wagon not a wagon?  Answer, when it's a truck!  

 

(Now, there's something for discussion on the Pedants thread!)

 

Jim

[Guy Rixon]

 

In the meantime, I had thought of something like these: http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2292.php.  I would not attempt any form of compensation, as this would be to complicate life unnecessarily. If I can't lay OO track well enough to stop stock falling off it, I will have failed completely.  I would need to be able to pull one wheel off each axle.  Can you do this with Alan Gibson rolling stock wheels, I've never yet had cause to try?

 

My only concern is that, as they are designed for wagons (with 12mm wheels), there might be insufficient clearance for 14mm coach wheels.  At £5 for 4 vehicles, this could be an elegant and cost-effective solution.

 

 

On that design, the baseplate lies between the wheels, so for 14mm wheels just pack the base out from the coach floor by an extra 1mm.

 

Compensation is inherent with this system: you'd have to do extra work to build it rigid. I suggest that you keep the compensation. While I'm sure that you can get rigid, short-wheelbase wagons to stay on, long-wheelbase coaches are significantly more sensitive to minor track twist, so I think you may benefit from some flexibility.

 

It's easy to get Gibson wheels off their axles if you have a small vice. The jaws of the vice need to be small enough to close between the wheels with the axle vertical. With the top jaw of the vice supporting the top wheel but not quite gripping the axle, tap on the pinpoint of the axle with a small hammer until it starts to retreat into the wheel. That breaks the grip of the plastic on the axle, and you can then hold axle in pliers while you gently twist the wheel off with your fingers.

 

Getting the wheel back on straight is a bit harder. First you need to cut off or file away the pinpoints. On the end where the wheel is to be refitted, it's best to leave a short length of the coned part of the axle. If you cut it back to a sharp, square end then the sharp edges will ruin the wheel's bore as it goes back on. Now you need a block of wood with a 2mm hole in it to push the wheel back on. You could push it with your fingers, but the block gives a better chance to get it on striaight and without twisting the spokes. You also need a back-to-back gauge, and the gauge needs to be shaped so that it fits around the bearings. The wheel can now be pushed into place, with a tiny amount of Loctite 603 retainer to hold it, until the back-to-back is right. The retainer takes a while to set (c.f. cyano glue, also sold by Loctite, which sets 50ms before you're ready for it). If you do this without the retainer, then the wheel might stay where you put it just by friction. Or it might not.

[Talltim]

Some humour in the context of a grim subject. On R4's PM programme earlier this evening was a report on the 3 individuals prosecuted for belonging to a proscribed far-right organisation. 2 of them were servicemen; 1 of whom was a member of "the Royal Anglican Regiment".

 

Nearly crashed the car.

 

I've heard of the concept of the Church Militant, of course, but the idea of the Church of England having an armed wing ....

 

It's the equivalent of suggesting that John Betjeman planned the modern motorway network.

Royal Anglican Regiment, Jesus Army?

[Edwardian]

Royal Anglican Regiment, Jesus Army?

 

Might be a problem there in the absence of apostolic succession!

 

And now for something completely different ...

 

Earlier this year I was laid up in bed with a debilitating bug.  When I got to the stage of being conscious for much of the day, I took to watching old black and white films of the '30s and '40s. These days, many are to be found on Youtube, and the wonderful thing about Youtube is that similar content is displayed, and many happy discoveries are made that way.

 

I was actually going through a series of Conrad Veidt films when I came across Knight without Armour (1937), which stars Marlene Dietrich and Robert Donat and is set against the background of the Russian Revolution/Civil War. 

 

While no doubt still slightly delirious, I really enjoyed it.  Do you know when you see a film and thing "that is a really good film, I can't believe I'd never heard of it"?  Well, for me, Knight without Armour was one such.

 

There is a poignant portrayal of a station master, his mind deranged by the effect of war and revolution on the workings of the railway, who still believes that trains are arriving and departing from his station, but there are a number of scenes featuring trains.

 

This month's Great Eastern Journal opened with the following article:

 

In September 1936,the LNER withdrew two of its J-15 0-6-0s Nos. 7835 and 7541 and sold them to London Film Productions for the filming, at their Denham studios, of Alexanda Korda's film Knights [sic] with Armour.

 

And, to answer my question "why had I never heard of this excellent film?", the article states that the film was: 

 

a critical, though not financial, success.

 

Filming was undertaken at Longmoor, and the locomotives sold on to the War Department, seeing service on the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire, and were scrapped in 1944.   

 

Here is one of the 'Russian' J15s: http://c8.alamy.com/comp/DD5WH5/knight-without-armour-1937-knight-without-armor-alt-jacques-feyder-DD5WH5.jpg

[wagonman]

Might be a problem there in the absence of apostolic succession!

 

And now for something completely different ...

 

Earlier this year I was laid up in bed with a debilitating bug.  When I got to the stage of being conscious for much of the day, I took to watching old black and white films of the '30s and '40s. These days, many are to be found on Youtube, and the wonderful thing about Youtube is that similar content is displayed, and many happy discoveries are made that way.

 

I was actually going through a series of Conrad Veidt films when I came across Knight without Armour (1937), which stars Marlene Dietrich and Robert Donat and is set against the background of the Russian Revolution/Civil War. 

 

While no doubt still slightly delirious, I really enjoyed it.  Do you know when you see a film and thing "that is a really good film, I can't believe I'd never heard of it"?  Well, for me, Knight without Armour was one such.

 

There is a poignant portrayal of a station master, his mind deranged by the effect of war and revolution on the workings of the railway, who still believes that trains are arriving and departing from his station, but there are a number of scenes featuring trains.

 

This month's Great Eastern Journal opened with the following article:

 

In September 1936,the LNER withdrew two of its J-15 0-6-0s Nos. 7835 and 7541 and sold them to London Film Productions for the filming, at their Denham studios, of Alexanda Korda's film Knights [sic] with Armour.

 

And, to answer my question "why had I never heard of this excellent film?", the article states that the film was: 

 

a critical, though not financial, success.

 

Filming was undertaken at Longmoor, and the locomotives sold on to the War Department, seeing service on the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire, and were scrapped in 1944.   

 

Here is one of the 'Russian' J15s: http://c8.alamy.com/comp/DD5WH5/knight-without-armour-1937-knight-without-armor-alt-jacques-feyder-DD5WH5.jpg

 

 

Truly a cast of thousands...well hundreds anyway. A bit of useless information: Denham Studios became Rank's film processing lab.

[Compound2632]

Here is one of the 'Russian' J15s: http://c8.alamy.com/comp/DD5WH5/knight-without-armour-1937-knight-without-armor-alt-jacques-feyder-DD5WH5.jpg

 

So when are Hornby producing this version?

[Edwardian]

So when are Hornby producing this version?

 

Hopefully at some point after they produce a GE Y14 version or two!

 

The built-up roof is removeable and both types of cab-scoops are tooled for, so you could have both the standard goods version, in black, and the Westinghouse fitted version in ultramarine - try convincing me that wouldn't sell!

 

One problem - it's quite clear that even Russianised versions have radially-mounted boiler handrails!

[Northroader]

Think I prefer the "Titfield Thunderbolt"

[Hroth]

...

I've heard of the concept of the Church Militant, of course,  but the idea of the Church of England having an armed wing .... 

 

It's the equivalent of suggesting that John Betjeman planned the modern motorway network.

Perhaps its the provisional offshoot of the Church Army?

 

Nononononononoooooo... so wrong on so many levels.....

 

As for JB, didn't he moonlight for Ernest Marples in the late 50s-early 60s?

 

And the "Russianised" J15 in a later post.  Hattons are selling J15s fairly inexpensively, so it might be fun to do a conversion, with a fully detailed guards van containing a huge samovar!  Btw, is that supposed to be Lenin hanging onto the r/h side of the smokebox?

[Edwardian]

 

As for JB, didn't he moonlight for Ernest Marples in the late 50s-early 60s?

 

 

 

No, that was Tony Hancock

 

 

 

 

And the "Russianised" J15 in a later post.  Hattons are selling J15s fairly inexpensively, so it might be fun to do a conversion, with a fully detailed guards van containing a huge samovar!  Btw, is that supposed to be Lenin hanging onto the r/h side of the smokebox?

 

Probably a character called Axelstein - but, yes, your standard issue Bolshevik rabble-rouser!

[nick_bastable]

Narrow Planets have delivered the nameplates I ordered and very fine they are indeed,  any news on the naming of the Castle Aching locomotives and more importantly will there be a suitable ceremony and banquet ?

 

Nick 

[Edwardian]

Narrow Planets have delivered the nameplates I ordered and very fine they are indeed,  any news on the naming of the Castle Aching locomotives and more importantly will there be a suitable ceremony and banquet ?

 

Nick 

 

Yes, I keep forgetting to check the proofs.

 

Duh!

 

Must try to do so this evening.

[Nearholmer]

That russianised loco isn't a bad attempt - it looks very like some real Russian locos that I've seen pictures of.

 

Do Preiser make a set of 'downtrodden peasantry on the brink of revolution' (revolting peasantry?) in H0 scale?

 

K

[Andy Hayter]

Yes

 

I think they call them football supporters

 

Hat coat gone..................................

[Nearholmer]

I'll bear that in mind next time my son prevails upon me to take him to watch our local 'heroes' suffer a humiliating defeat.

[jcm@gwr]

Royal Anglican Regiment, Jesus Army?

 

 

Perhaps its the provisional offshoot of the Church Army?

 

Nononononononoooooo... so wrong on so many levels.....

 

 

A few (well, quite a few, actually!) years ago, I was out drinking with an old

mate of mine. The Salvation Army came round, rattling the 'donation pot',

he refused to donate, on the grounds that he didn't support 'para-military'

organisations, you should have seen the look on their faces!