Castle Aching

[corneliuslundie]

That wagon does seem to have corner plates and an iron or steel underframe. I am not sure about diagonals and there is so little of the underpinnings visible that one cannot draw any useful deductions.  The GWR was using channel underframes for four plank opens from 1886. Others were later but for example the LB&SCR was using steel underframes in 1920. And regarding the LNWR wagon, such wagons became common user in January 1917.

Jonathan

[Northroader]

That wagon could be a private owner wagon? They carried sand too.

[Hroth]

Dodgy.  I read somewhere that Legio IX Hispana tried that and never came back.  Mind you, with Jim leaping about dressed only in woad, limescale was probably the least of their problems.

They probably got lost in one of those infamous Scotch Mists.

 

Perhaps Jim is a Pictsie, or at least one of the Nac Mac Feegle?

 

I surmise his full name is something along the lines of "No'-as-big-as-Medium-Sized-Jim-but-bigger-than-Wee-Jim Jim"

 

Or not.... 

 

 

Spelins letting me down again....

Edited September 18, 2018 by Hroth

[Caley Jim]

I surmise his full name is something along the lines of "No'-as-big-as-Medium-Sized-Jim-but-bigger-than-Wee-Jim Jim"

I'm actually on the tall side, but not as tall a my 19 yr old grandson.  I share my name with a well know Victorian Engineer, in fact you could say he started all this!

 

Jim

[Caley Jim]

Yes – if you include iron bodied – they've been around since at least 1850 as the London & Birmingham had some. But the 3rd wagon in the photo is a GWR 4 plank (wooden) open.

The Cr had 30ton steel bodied  bogie opens (dia. 54) and some 40T bogie hopper coke wagons (dia. 66).  I'm in the middle of reading Mike William's 'More on Caledonian Wagons' a supplement to his earlier book, and it gives details of proposed 15T and 20t 4 wheeled steel bodied mineral wagons as well as 25T and 40T bogie versions.  These were an attempt to improve the payload to total weight ratio of mineral wagons. Metal bodied wagons were also cheaper to build than their wooden equivalents.  The book goes into some detail around the investigations by the GER into high capacity wagons which were instigated by drawings of the CR proposals, including the hiring from Leeds Forge of a 30T wagon.

 

Jim

[ChrisN]

Two topics in one post and neither really relate to here but have been inspired by this topic.  On Station Road in Traeth Mawr there is a parade.  I had assumed/ previously thought/ investigated and found out that it is a detachment of the 3rd Battalion Royal Welch Fusiliers.  Now I thought this because there are only two regular battalions so an imaginary 3rd would be fine.  All this talk of volunteers made me think and further investigation, quite quickly led me to the fact that there was a 3rd Battalion in 1895, it was the 3rd Militia Battalion, so it could be them.  Interesting.  Riding at the front is what I assumed was the Regimental Colonel, Viscount Deudraeth.  Would they have such an exalted figure in charge of a militia battalion, or would he be the regimental colonel come to add support?  I will happily move this back to my thread but thought folks here might be interested.

 

Following on from Don's post, he probably realises that if he models Dolgelley in 1895 or there abouts, I think, the only locos were saddle tanks, 645s?

[St Enodoc]

I'm actually on the tall side, but not as tall a my 19 yr old grandson.  I share my name with a well know Victorian Engineer, in fact you could say he started all this!

 

Jim

Wot? Victorian? Shome mishtake shurely...

[Compound2632]

The torrent of diverse subjects coming pel-mel one on top of another - fugally - here on CA brings to mind John Keats' account of his walk over Hampstead Heath with S.T. Coleridge: "After enquiring by a look whether it would be agreeable, I walked with him at his alderman-afterdinner pace for nearly two miles, I suppose. In those two miles he broached 1,000 things - let me see if I can give you a list - Nightingales-poetry-on poetic sensation-Metaphysics-Different genera and species of Dreams-Nightmare-a dream accompanied by a sense of touch-single and double touch-a dream related-first and second consciousness-The difference between Will and Volition-so my (many) metaphysicians from a want of smoking the second consciousness-monsters-The Kraken-Mermaids-Southey believes in them-Southey's belief too much diluted-a Ghost story-Good morning- I heard his voice as he came towards me- I heard it as he moved away- I heard it all the interval- if it may be called so." 

 

Perhaps our collective polylogue might occasionally approach the brilliance of Coleridge's monologue.

[Compound2632]

I'm with Jonathan on that mystery wagon. I think it is a Great Western 4-plank open of the sort that was built in very large numbers - over 15,000 - between 1887 and 1902. It does seem to have an iron or steel underframe and the pattern of bolts around the perimeter of the corner plate, with none nearer the fold except along the top and bottom, is quite distinctive.

[Hroth]

As I see it, our Duties, as far as the Parish Council is concerned, include:

 

• Appreciating the wonderful nature of Castle Aching, its Railway and Environs.
• Distracting and Encouraging Mr Ed in his attempts to move forward with Castle Aching.
• Exploring the minutiae of Pre-Grouping Locomotive, Passenger and Goods Stock appropriate to the operation of the Railway, and of Connecting Railways, and so on...
• Introducing Topics that inform the Cultural Milieu of Castle Aching in the Edwardian Period.
• Appreciating Art and Ms JA in equal proportion (Providing there are plenty of Urns and Ferns to indicate that it is, indeed, Art).
• AOB.

 

I think that covers the majority of our Duties!

 

As for the Militias, Yeomanry and the Territorials that they became after the late 19th Century Army Reforms, they were often rather looked down on by (particularly) the Officers of the Regular Batallions that they were affiliated to.  Robert Graves, in his memoire "Goodbye To All That" recalled the Regimental frame of mind and attitudes of the Royal Welch Fusiliers in the early months of WW1.

[Nearholmer]

It might (or might not) be interesting to compile a list of the bodies, clubs and societies that exist in CA and its environs.

 

If we are The Parish Council, what Boards of Guardians, School Boards (actually, they’d been superseded by LEAs by 1905) etc, and what operatic, ornithological, etc societies?

 

CA being very small, this question probably ought to span over West Norfolk as a whole, which I’m guessing is an RDC.

[Caley Jim]

It might (or might not) be interesting to compile a list of the bodies, clubs and societies that exist in CA and its environs.

 

If we are The Parish Council, what Boards of Guardians, School Boards (actually, they’d been superseded by LEAs by 1905) etc, and what operatic, ornithological, etc societies?

 

CA being very small, this question probably ought to span over West Norfolk as a whole, which I’m guessing is an RDC.

Surely there will be a branch of the Stevenson Locomotive Society, or at least a Railway Enthusiasts Society?  If not we must start one immediately!  Could the Drill Hall,on its completion, be hired as a suitable venue?  Otherwise we will need to meet in The Dodo.

 

jim

[Hroth]

Surely there will be a branch of the Stevenson Locomotive Society, or at least a Railway Enthusiasts Society?  If not we must start one immediately!  Could the Drill Hall,on its completion, be hired as a suitable venue?  Otherwise we will need to meet in The Dodo.

 

jim

Perhaps the noble and venerable Institute of Ferro-Equinologists might be represented in CA?

[Edwardian]

Surely there will be a branch of the Stevenson Locomotive Society, or at least a Railway Enthusiasts Society?  If not we must start one immediately!  Could the Drill Hall,on its completion, be hired as a suitable venue?  Otherwise we will need to meet in The Dodo.

 

jim

 

 

Perhaps the noble and venerable Institute of Ferro-Equinologists might be represented in CA?

 

An interesting question.  To what extent was the phenomenon of the railway enthusiast developed by 1905?  Is it merely the odd eccentric gentleman with a stop watch, or had the Brethren organised? 

 

The SLS was not formed until 1909, "for the study of railways and railway locomotion", which suggests a certain level of informal and unorganised enthusiasm present c.1905.  I can see the slightly quaint backwater WNR attracting enthusiasts even as long ago as that!

 

Could the Drill Hall,on its completion, be hired as a suitable venue?  Otherwise we will need to meet in The Dodo.

 

jim

 

Yes, I think so.  There are several watering holes in CA, but the oldest and grandest is The Dodo, and I assumed that it would furnish "Assembly Rooms" for the local hops.  Since the late 1860s, the parish would have had a large enclosed space in the form of the Drill Hall, and I expect that it would have provided venues for concerts, theatricals and balls.

 

It might (or might not) be interesting to compile a list of the bodies, clubs and societies that exist in CA and its environs.

 

If we are The Parish Council, what Boards of Guardians, School Boards (actually, they’d been superseded by LEAs by 1905) etc, and what operatic, ornithological, etc societies?

 

CA being very small, this question probably ought to span over West Norfolk as a whole, which I’m guessing is an RDC.

 

 

Good plan.  To some extent we can draw upon Kelly's 1904 Norfolk Directory. 

 

Spanning West Norfolk?  Yes, CA has, I think, become something of the size of Rising and Acre combined, but with the fillip of being on the railway, but it is still a fairly small place, and lacks the town-like attributes of Achingham. 

 

I had, indeed, supposed a RDC as appropriate for the period.

 

We may have two conglomerations; the Achings (Castle Aching, Little Aching, Aching Constable etc), and the Birchoverhams (Birchoverham Market, Town, Next the Sea etc). I suppose the original line (late 1850s), before the WN grew branches or extensions, would have been between these two clusters of places. 

 

Then there is Achingham, reached by a branch line by the mid 1860s, which was a place of greater consequence than CA. It would have a livestock market, maltings and, by 1905, gasworks. It's a fantasy Fakenham, obviously, and in layout terms is much more like Buckingham Great Central, in its earlier forms, than the bucolic CA would be.

 

So, perhaps in the immediate vicinity of the layout, we have 3 centres; The Achings, centred on Castle Aching, the Birchoverhams, centred on Birchoverham Market, and Achingham.  Lying between Castle Aching and Birchoveham Market on the mainline we also have Flitchinham (junction for the Bishop's Lynn Tramway and the Wolfringham Branch) and the Massinghams, where the line crosses and forms a junction with the M&GN.   

 

That recap, I hope, sets the scene for various organised activities and institutions.

 

CA institutions so far known include:

 

- Anglican Parish of St Tabitha's

- Primitive Methodist Chapel

- Village School

- Almshouses

- A volunteer platoon

- A reading room

   

The only Am-Dram outfit yet identified is in neighbouring Cambridgeshire, the Eldernell Strollers, but I feel that there must be an operatic society in Castle Aching, as clearly we cannot have too much Gilbert & Sullivan in our lives.

 

We can also have a cycling club, and ornithological society (perhaps they sight a Tawny Pipit?), and perhaps one for antiquaries?

 

EDIT: It emerged recently that Achingham runs to its own newspaper, the Achingham Argus, but perhaps there is also room for the West Norfolk Gazette, published in Birchoverham Market?

 

The question is open to the floor ...

Edited September 19, 2018 by Edwardian

[Hroth]

May I beg to introduce The Aching Thespians as the local amateur dramatic/Light Opera & GS organisation?

 

 

I know it sounds more like a retreat for aged actors, but beggars can't be choosers....

 

 

Perhaps Birchoverham might have a Visiter or Intelligencer, even more wonky titles than a Gazette?

Edited September 19, 2018 by Hroth

[Edwardian]

Examples from various places, according to the Interweb:

 

"In 1866 a group of Spalding Gentlemen formed an Amateur Society for the performance of plays, some of which must have been musical plays as accounts show charges of £5 5s for an orchestra" (Wiki).

 

The Cromer Amateur Operatic Society was formed in 1914.

 

"Hawick Amateur Operatic Society was founded in 1910. ... The first production “H.M.S. Pinafore” was staged in the ‘New Theatre’ in Croft Road in the spring of 1911"

 

Studley had a Choral Society in 1903 'They presented such choral works as “St. Cecilia’s Day”, “The Rose Maiden” and “The May Queen”'.  The decision, in 1906, to present a staged version of “The Merry Men of Sherwood Forest” led to the formation of Studley Operatic Society.

 

The Huddersfield Musical Theatre Company Limited, the society was formed in 1896.

 

Sunderland Amateur Operatic Society, formed in 1893.

[Edwardian]

May I beg to introduce The Aching Thespians as the local amateur dramatic/Light Opera & GS organisation?

 

 

 

 

The Aching Thespians I like. 

 

To continue the classical theme, perhaps also the Aching Euterpeans, for amateur operatics?

[Edwardian]

By the way, it's blowing an absolute hoolie outside.

 

The Memsahib has yet to return from the yard, so I hope she is OK. 

 

I wonder how the storm goes for parishioners located points north of the Durham Dales?

[runs as required]

We've just been talking to the fishman who calls in with his van from Prudhoe (on-sea?). We looked up at the sky and hoped the worst would pass further west up the Tyne Valley.

dh

 

Edit

As usual I've been catching up by reading the CA thread upwards i.e. backwards in time.

Admit it! How many others had to look up the word Euterpean ?

Edited September 19, 2018 by runs as required

[Edwardian]

We've just been talking to the fishman who calls in with his van from Prudhoe (on-sea?). We looked up at the sky and hoped the worst would pass further west up the Tyne Valley.

dh

 

Memsahib back, her usual matter of fact self, as if she hasn't just driven down a road with HGVs and trees blowing past her windscreen.  She says it's due to worsen this afternoon.

[Hroth]

By the way, it's blowing an absolute hoolie outside.

 

The Memsahib has yet to return from the yard, so I hope she is OK. 

 

I wonder how the storm goes for parishioners located points north of the Durham Dales?

I noticed that you're in the way of the Met Office Amber zone, which is currently covering the northern Pennines, as well as Northern Ireland and most of the Pictish lands north of you.  It appears to be trudging in an easterly direction...

 

Good Luck!  Glad to hear that the Mem has returned from her expedition unscathed!

 

We're currently experiencing what amounts to a force 8 gale, which is nothing out of the ordinary, in general terms, due to waft off by 6PM, falling to a fresh breeze.

[Hroth]

We've just been talking to the fishman who calls in with his van from Prudhoe (on-sea?). We looked up at the sky and hoped the worst would pass further west up the Tyne Valley.

dh

 

Edit

As usual I've been catching up by reading the CA thread upwards i.e. backwards in time.

Admit it! How many others had to look up the word Euterpean ?

Hands up! I was thinking it was something to do with the EEC......

 

We're beginning to sound like the Master of Ceremonies for "The Good Old Days"!

[Nearholmer]

Euterpean is a new one on me too. It’s not affected by Brexit, is it?

 

Who is the MP for West Norfolk? I’m imagining some deeply back-woodsman type, first elected so long ago that nobody can imagine him not being the MP, knighted for services to longevity, completely out of touch with the last he’s of ordinary people, and everything that has happened since The Great Exhibition. His maiden speech was a rambling diatribe about the plight of the root-crop farmer, and on the very, very few occasions when he speaks in The House, he will always turn the topic to turnips.

 

So, what is his name, and where does he live? And, is there an impatient young man, waiting to succeed him when he eventually expires? And, is that young man, even as we speak, entangling himself in some awful scandal, which will catch-up with him the very day after he has realised his ambition to become an MP?

 

It’s breezy enough here.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Hroth]

Euterpean is a new one on me too. It’s not affected by Brexit, is it?

 

Who is the MP for West Norfolk? I’m imagining some deeply back-woodsman type, first elected so long ago that nobody can imagine him not being the MP, knighted for services to longevity, completely out of touch with the last he’s of ordinary people, and everything that has happened since The Great Exhibition. His maiden speech was a rambling diatribe about the plight of the root-crop farmer, and on the very, very few occasions when he speaks in The House, he will always turn the topic to turnips.

 

So, what is his name, and where does he live? And, is there an impatient young man, waiting to succeed him when he eventually expires? And, is that young man, even as we speak, entangling himself in some awful scandal, which will catch-up with him the very day after he has realised his ambition to become an MP?

 

It’s breezy enough here.

Thing is, MPs, even young backwoods ones, could survive awful scandals, because no-one could compare with Eddie over at Sandringham!

 

The interesting thing would be if the youngster would set an example to his electorate and Join the Colours in 1914, and cause a by-election after the retreat from Mons?

[Edwardian]

Travels up the Aire Valley ...

 

Over on Martin SC's Nether Madder topic, a public spirited soul has posted links to stock drawings and the complete articles relating to the Aire Valley Railway.  I had heard of this layout, and wondered why it had not completed an immortal freelance trilogy with Madder Valley and Craig & Mertonford in my mind.  Looking at the articles, I see that it was all a bit late.  My father's RM collection peters out as we enter the 1960s, with just the odd magazine here and there before ending sometime in '63 with CJF's attempts to put a brave face on Beeching.   

 

The AVR in print only seems to have got going in print in '61, running up to the mid '70s, so before my own RM collection started in the late '70s.  Falling, thus, into a magazine lacuna, the AVR was never an influence, conscious or unconscious, on me, but I shall now enjoy learning all about it.

 

 

Who is the MP for West Norfolk? I’m imagining some deeply back-woodsman type, first elected so long ago that nobody can imagine him not being the MP, knighted for services to longevity, completely out of touch with the last he’s of ordinary people, and everything that has happened since The Great Exhibition. His maiden speech was a rambling diatribe about the plight of the root-crop farmer, and on the very, very few occasions when he speaks in The House, he will always turn the topic to turnips.

So, what is his name, and where does he live? And, is there an impatient young man, waiting to succeed him when he eventually expires? And, is that young man, even as we speak, entangling himself in some awful scandal, which will catch-up with him the very day after he has realised his ambition to become an MP?

 

 

Goodness, a veritable portrait of the late Sir John Stokes MP.

 

We invited him to speak at our scurrilous undergraduate dining and debating society - introduced elsewhere, apropos fountains - as we guessed, rightly as it happens, that he was one of the few Knights of the Shires barmy enough to speak on the motion "This House believes that abroad is unutterably bloody and all foreigners are fiends".  This, by the way, was a quote from Uncle Matt, he of the entrenching tool, in the Nancy Mitford novels, and was meant, yes, to be mischievous, but also firmly tongue in cheek.  I'm afraid it seems less innocently droll post-BREXIT, but there you are.

 

Anyway, my first encounter with Sir John was when I went to meet and greet him.  He looked me up and down with ill-disguised disapproval, before pronouncing, apropos my trousers, "Hmph, moleskins.  Never wear 'em.  Find they don't keep a crease".

 

You cannot make this stuff up, and, I promise you, I'm not.

 

Anyway, his contribution to the House was sporadic and tended towards themes that were dear to him.  In one debate concerning some EEC matter, he stood up and pronounced "The Germans.  Went through their first winter on the Russian Front without greatcoats.  Never underestimated your German". Possibly I paraphrase, but Hansard is not to hand.

 

Anyway, during the war he was in Syria, ranged against the Vichy forces, so was one of the few Englishmen in the Twentieth Century privileged enough to have fought the French ....  

 

Perhaps he did, indeed, have a kindred spirit in Edwardian West Norfolk ...

Edited September 19, 2018 by Edwardian