Castle Aching

[Compound2632]

Ha! It was more the way he is looking down at the head and generally rather too skinny to be pulling that van.

[Northroader]

Vell sir, ve seldom takes im ome, on account of is weakness. E always falls down ven he’s taken out, so ven he’s in it, ve bears im up werry tight, and takes im in verry short, so he can’t werry vell fall down, and ve got a pair of precious large wheels on, so ven e does move, they run after im, and he must go on, e can’t help it.

[Hroth]

The RSPCA will be on to you re. that horse.

With a couple of sticks, you could probably get a tune out of the poor things ribs.

 

or

 

[runs as required]

Today I have been thinking of my Grandfather who served in the Great War. He was missing presumed killed before they found him in a coma in a french field hospital. Badly injured with the loss of sight in one eye he was lucky to be invalided out. After the war he found difficulty in getting jobs. He had been a dockhand but the system was you turned up hoping to be taken on by a chargehand, with reduced dock work he often was unselected. So he looked elsewhere but these were difficult times. He went for a job to drive a cart and four and being desperate lied saying he had done so in the war. He was taken on and said it was a blessing that the lead horse knew the delivery routes. He said he was only holding the reins to look good. Not so far from your telepathic driving.

We shared a house with my grandparents and I learned a lot from Grandad. A practical self taught man he taught me not to be afraid of having a go at anything and to be self reliant.

 

Don

Thank you for that post - and cleverly more or less on topic about horses.

My post is (rather more OT) about having had a very moving day of bell ringing commemorating the fallen during WWI from the mining settlements up in our corner of (former) Co Durham. We started in Ryton upon Tyne with 233 on the war memorial just below the church (an 8 bell ring). After a half hour of celebratory ringing, we tolled for every one of the 233 names - this took a further 20 minutes.

We then transferred down to Blaydon (a post-Waterloo Million pound Act minimalist church) and rang the six bells there for another lengthy list of names on the memorial, many from the same families.

In the evening we rang at a small 1880s church up at Winlaton on the plateau with a rarely used 6 bell ring. This was fascinating - unlike Ryton, now an expanded commuter village, this is still the original population of mining families who turned out wearing the Veterans medals and telling their stories to us ringers after the commemorative service. A young musician played The Last Post and other bugle calls on the bugle that is an heirloom from WWI handed down within the family.

There were a couple of pencil lists on the stone walls of the ringers who had rung for the 1918 Armistice - we wondered what their thoughts and mood had been while ringing.

 

I thought to post this because I know a good many of you CA parishioners have military associations.

dh

Edited November 12, 2018 by runs as required

[Donw]

I was rather disappointed not to hear any bells here ( in an area known as five bells too)  We can heratwo churches but neither seemed to be ringing.Nice to no you made a real effort.

 

Don

[Hroth]

The bell ringers at the church down the road are very active (Services, weddings, practice 8pm Tuesdays) so I was glad to hear them ringing a peal yesterday!

[Edwardian]

Note, reins and traces are, of course, not round in profile, but are flat leather strips.

 

Some very thin brass cut narrow for traces and very, very narrow for reins?

 

Fuse wire for coachman's whip?

 

All horse furniture must past muster before the Memsahib, who is a sort of equestrian version of a rivet counter (don't ever tell her I said that).

 

Attractive though the Days Gone model is, I reckon that it might be just as easy to scratch-build one!  Even if close enough to scale, which remains to be seen, it has a sort of Oxford Rail quality about it, i.e. it's entirely clear what it's meant to be, but as soon as one looks closer one realises that the subject has not been properly understood or replicated at all.

 

There is a lot of solid coach-work where there was merely railing - the side to the stairs and the sides to the top deck, where in reality the 'sides' were just boards fixed to the railings, not a solid parapet - and I don't know how you would set about giving the roof/floor the correct curved profile.

 

It's a real Operation Silk Purse challenge.

 

Perhaps all the more fun for that?

[Regularity]

As a narrow gauge modeller I've looked at various scales to fit available tracks to gauges, I tend to come to my senses and return to recognised scales because its harder to scratch build vehicles and figures than it is to make a chassis or pull wheels out.

Well, S Scale and N gauge, or even better, 2mm finescale standard gauge, make a better combination for representing 2’ gauge prototypes than 009. TT track is close to 2’6” gauge for S (¼” over, but 11.9mm gauge is ok), 14.2mm is a scale ¼” under 3’, 16.5mm gauge is routinely used for 3’6” prototypes, and P4 is about ½” under 4’ gauge.

 

1:64 scale has a lot to offer the dedicated narrow gauge modeller who doesn’t want to rely on kits and RTR, but would never take off commercially as 4mm scale narrow gauge is dominated by being able to put a “feeder” line onto a 4mm layout, thus increasing sales potential.

 

If you ever saw Trevor Hughes’ “Tan-y-Grisiau” in Sn2, you will recall how effective it can be. (Although I do have to say that it was rather boring to operate!)

[Edwardian]

Well, S Scale and N gauge, or even better, 2mm finescale standard gauge, make a better combination for representing 2’ gauge prototypes than 009. TT track is close to 2’6” gauge for S (¼” over, but 11.9mm gauge is ok), 14.2mm is a scale ¼” under 3’, 16.5mm gauge is routinely used for 3’6” prototypes, and P4 is about ½” under 4’ gauge.

 

1:64 scale has a lot to offer the dedicated narrow gauge modeller who doesn’t want to rely on kits and RTR, but would never take off commercially as 4mm scale narrow gauge is dominated by being able to put a “feeder” line onto a 4mm layout, thus increasing sales potential.

 

If you ever saw Trevor Hughes’ “Tan-y-Grisiau” in Sn2, you will recall how effective it can be. (Although I do have to say that it was rather boring to operate!)

 

This might be of some interest in relating railway modelling scales to wargaming terminology: http://theminiaturespage.com/ref/scales.html

[Nearholmer]

“1:64 scale has a lot to offer the dedicated narrow gauge modeller who doesn’t want to rely on kits and RTR, but would never take off commercially as 4mm scale narrow gauge is dominated by being able to put a “feeder” line onto a 4mm layout, thus increasing sales potential.”

 

Evidence for that assertion?

 

I spent many years as a 009 modeller and participating member of the 009 Society, and a good friend has remained true to 009 for c45 years, and I’ve never seen a heavy emphasis on ‘feeder lines’. Yes, CJF and successors have often sketched one in on plans, often rather obviously without much narrow gauge knowledge, but the vast majority of the modelling i’ve seen puts the ng front and centre, with perhaps a sprig of sg at an interchange.

 

S does offer some good ng possibilities, and is popular in some countries, but most by modellers stick to common scales to make it simpler to deal with model people, road vehicles, etc etc etc.

 

Those who want to get the gauge exactly right tend to gravitate to combinations like 0n14 (Britain).

 

It’s like many other things, a question of whether or not life is long enough. Some people conclude that it is long enough for lots of scratch building, but many, most I think, conclude otherwise.

[RedGemAlchemist]

“1:64 scale has a lot to offer the dedicated narrow gauge modeller who doesn’t want to rely on kits and RTR, but would never take off commercially as 4mm scale narrow gauge is dominated by being able to put a “feeder” line onto a 4mm layout, thus increasing sales potential.”

 

Evidence for that assertion?

 

I spent many years as a 009 modeller and participating member of the 009 Society, and a good friend has remained true to 009 for c45 years, and I’ve never seen a heavy emphasis on ‘feeder lines’. Yes, CJF and successors have often sketched one in on plans, often rather obviously without much narrow gauge knowledge, but the vast majority of the modelling i’ve seen puts the ng front and centre, with perhaps a sprig of sg at an interchange.

 

S does offer some good ng possibilities, and is popular in some countries, but most by modellers stick to common scales to make it simpler to deal with model people, road vehicles, etc etc etc.

 

Those who want to get the gauge exactly right tend to gravitate to combinations like 0n14 (Britain).

 

It’s like many other things, a question of whether or not life is long enough. Some people conclude that it is long enough for lots of scratch building, but many, most I think, conclude otherwise.

Hmm. That's definitely food for thought. Edited November 12, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Edwardian]

I confess, my impression is that most 009 on layouts is on pure 009 layouts.  Some have a token standard gauge siding (not always powered).

 

There was the freelance Craig, and no doubt a number since, but my impression is that the interchange station is generally an under-exploited layout scheme.

  

There are many layouts of, and derived from, well-known prototype NG railways, but, for example, I have never seen a model of Chirk, the one representation of Barnstaple Town I have seen has only a perfunctory and static standard gauge presence, and I am not sure Blaenau Festiniog has been done, though I'd be glad to see that it had.  

 

One might surely expect more interchange layouts based upon these and other prototypes, and forming part of many freelance or what-if derivatives?

[Hroth]

Another interesting SG/NG interchange would be Aberystwyth. Loads of GWR on both sides.... 

 

If you were of a hair-shirt nature, it could even be extended to BR Blue, though the ng side would outshine the rest!

[Skinnylinny]

Speaking of the Craig and Mertonford, we're lucky enough to have one board of it set up (and operating!) at the Edinburgh and Lothians clubrooms this week - Dundreich station, with its standard gauge at the front and the narrow gauge terminus above. http://www.elmrc.org.uk/dundreich.php
 

If anyone would like any photos of anything specific, please let me know and I'll take them tomorrow when I'm at the club.

[Nearholmer]

Yes, interchanges are not a hugely common feature of 009 layouts, possibly because the nearest equivalent to a space-saving BLT is a very-space-saving common-carrier NG terminus.

 

My pal who remains into 009 owns a portable Lynton & Barnstaple - inspired empire, several stations and interlinking bits of Devon that don't often appear all at once in public, but I don't think he has an interchange, and another friend, sadly now deceased, had a really serious loft-empire plus a string of very good 'portables', and he left the interchange until last, and I don't think ever progressed the SG side of it as far as track-laying.

 

Perhaps there is so much to be fascinated with in NG that one becomes effectively blind to SG; I certainly did from a hobby perspective from c1975-2010.

 

To stay vaguely in-topic, 009 is a very good format for empire layouts and imagined independent companies. Many of the bits of Britain that didn't get a railway, or got a SG light-is railway, could have been well-served by a nice cheap 30" gauge line using transporter-wagons for through goods. Some might even have cut over to diesel traction at an early date and survived until today, which opens-up the possibility of modern independent loft-empires.

[sem34090]

Alright, so I've found one!

[Northroader]

But, I meantersay, OOn9???. Surely On16.5 is a much better route, putting OO loco chassis to what they should be used for. Then you can do it seriously, like the Charmouth /Bridport Town jobbies:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/1956-pictures-of-bridport-town/page-5#ipboard_body. Or you can just indulge in a bit of light hearted whimsicalness....

Edited November 12, 2018 by Northroader

[Edwardian]

Speaking of the Craig and Mertonford, we're lucky enough to have one board of it set up (and operating!) at the Edinburgh and Lothians clubrooms this week - Dundreich station, with its standard gauge at the front and the narrow gauge terminus above. http://www.elmrc.org.uk/dundreich.php

 

If anyone would like any photos of anything specific, please let me know and I'll take them tomorrow when I'm at the club.

 

Please take as many pictures of all of it!

 

I am particularly fond of the older Craig portions, but I seem to recall a lot of that is still missing. 

 

If you can enrich the Pre-Grouping layout topic (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74169-pre-grouping-layouts/page-12&do=findComment&comment=3204308) with any pictures, that would be greatly appreciated..

[Edwardian]

Alright, so I've found one!

IMG_20181112_142127.jpg

IMG_20181112_142154.jpg

[Martin S-C]

Perhaps there is so much to be fascinated with in NG that one becomes effectively blind to SG; I certainly did from a hobby perspective from c1975-2010.

I think both you and James are saying the same thing - that a modeller's interest determines what he or she is most likely to enjoy building and operating. That might be NG or it might be SG but only very very rarely is it both. Lots of SG layouts have a little bit of NG track feeder which in many cases is just a gimmick or another reason to move some freight about while many NG layouts have a token SG exchange siding so as to give the model some kind of reason for traffic, but its extremely unusual to see a modeller or a group of modellers have a wide enough interest to build a layout whose focus is 50/50 on the two gauges.

 

Plus the space consideration for the latter as well.

[Hroth]

I think both you and James are saying the same thing - that a modeller's interest determines what he or she is most likely to enjoy building and operating. That might be NG or it might be SG but only very very rarely is it both. Lots of SG layouts have a little bit of NG track feeder which in many cases is just a gimmick or another reason to move some freight about while many NG layouts have a token SG exchange siding so as to give the model some kind of reason for traffic, but its extremely unusual to see a modeller or a group of modellers have a wide enough interest to build a layout whose focus is 50/50 on the two gauges.

 

Plus the space consideration for the latter as well.

You'd have to be particularly foolhardy to combine the two at 7mm scale!

 

However, I could always do the Midsomer Light Railway exchange sidings at Midsomer Magna, with an "inglenook" style SG portion operated by a Dapol Jinty or Class 08.

 

Then again... 

[Edwardian]

I think both you and James are saying the same thing - that a modeller's interest determines what he or she is most likely to enjoy building and operating. That might be NG or it might be SG but only very very rarely is it both. Lots of SG layouts have a little bit of NG track feeder which in many cases is just a gimmick or another reason to move some freight about while many NG layouts have a token SG exchange siding so as to give the model some kind of reason for traffic, but its extremely unusual to see a modeller or a group of modellers have a wide enough interest to build a layout whose focus is 50/50 on the two gauges.

 

Plus the space consideration for the latter as well.

 

I plan to do Barnstaple Town (1913-4, with the intention of ultimately working backwards by stages to cover 1898 and c.1907-1910 as well).  The intention is to give equal stress on SG and NG. From the turn of the conversation I am realising that this is a surprisingly rare approach. 

 

I need to sell the house and buy a bigger shed, and, of course, get somewhere with CA, but it's lining itself up as the next project.

 

Perhaps surprisingly, the NG side can be almost entirely be replicated using RTR, whereas the SG side has to be entirely kit/scratch built.   

 

And yes, there's even a castle of sorts!

[Caley Jim]

Note, reins and traces are, of course, not round in profile, but are flat leather strips.

I challenge anyone to be able to tell that the reins on my 2mm scale carts are round rather than flat!!  

 

One advantage of using varnished wire is that it is already dark brown!

 

Regarding the events of yesterday. In our church, for the last four years we have read out a Roll of Honour of the names of the 27 from the three parishes who died in WWI.  (The three were united in 1994 to form present parish)  At the same time a yellow rose is brought forward by a member of the congregation and placed in a vase on the chancel.  Yesterday I had the privilege of reading the names, including the dates they died and their regiments.  There are two sets of brothers, one of whom were twins who were killed on the same day.  The other two brothers were the sons of the Minister at Pettinain, officers who were killed 14 days apart. 

 

Jim

Edited November 12, 2018 by Caley Jim

[Donw]

For 2ft lines 1:32 on EM gauge track might be a nice combination. You have all the Britains series of farm animals and equipment plus the soldiers to call on. Trouble with using a smaller scale is getting the right wheels  0 gauge wagon wheels do not look right for 16mm wagons so fortunately the right ones are available. I suspect 009 and 0n14/0n16.5 probably have the right wheels available because enough people chose those scales.

 

I like the idea of an equestrian pedant. I assume the leather for the traces would be no more than 1/4inch thick, if so that would be 4mm/48 somewhere between 3 and 4 thou. Before you rush out to buy a bit of 5 thou brass may I suggest you investigate the following;  Although toothpaste now seems to come in plastic tubes Tomato puree can still be obatain in metal ones (currently two for 90 in Tesco). Once the content has been used for the intended purpose. I cut top and tail off the tube and carefully open it out clean off the residue  and then press or roll the metal flat. I dont know how thick it is but it cuts with a stout pair of scissors ( A thin strip will curl and need re-straightening or lay on a flat surface and repeatedly score with a knife) . It will bend easily to shape. 

Other options might be to either use either some Aluminium ( takeaway dishes?) or perhaps th n card/stiff paper these would need to be given a gentle coating of shellac/knotting once in place to stiffen them.

 

Don

[Regularity]

“1:64 scale has a lot to offer the dedicated narrow gauge modeller who doesn’t want to rely on kits and RTR, but would never take off commercially as 4mm scale narrow gauge is dominated by being able to put a “feeder” line onto a 4mm layout, thus increasing sales potential.”

Evidence for that assertion?

I spent many years as a 009 modeller and participating member of the 009 Society, and a good friend has remained true to 009 for c45 years, and I’ve never seen a heavy emphasis on ‘feeder lines’. Yes, CJF and successors have often sketched one in on plans, often rather obviously without much narrow gauge knowledge, but the vast majority of the modelling i’ve seen puts the ng front and centre, with perhaps a sprig of sg at an interchange.

 

I have been re-reading some 1970s Railway Modellers: was a bit more common then!

 

There is, however, a massive difference between 009 and modelling narrow gauge railways in 4mm scale, even if the model gauge is the same. There is also some overlap.

Same is true for 7mm scale narrow gauge modelling versus 0-16.5.

 

Look at something like Craig or DLT’s Marsh Vale Railway layouts for narrow-gauge railway modelling in 4mm and 7mm scales respectively: the fact that they happen to be “009” and “0-16.5” is irrelevant to the approach, which is to create credible scenes.

Look at an Airfix Pug on a Minitrix 0-6-0 chassis, or a new cab on an H0 4-wheel diesel for the other approach, resulting all too often in models lacking credibility because they look like what they are. (Done well, a “pugbash” is a thing of beauty, but is then narrow gauge modelling to 4mm scale. )

And I did the latter in my teens, with a Mehano 4 wheel switcher, and worked with a friend on a very simple N-gauge based siding on his 00 layout at the same time, so guilty as charged.

 

It’s like anything in the hobby, really: up to individuals to do it as they see fit, but by the same token, I don’t have to view it as serious modelling.