Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

A good Norfolk Fourteenth or Fifteenth Century East Window would be helpful. 

[Nearholmer]

It would be interesting to see what a ‘full on’ English church interior, with windows, looked like pre-reformation. A service, in a ‘foreign language’, in a ‘jewel box’ must have been a seriously different experience.

[Shadow]

A good Norfolk Fourteenth or Fifteenth Century East Window would be helpful. 

 

 

Have a look here :- http://www.norfolkstainedglass.co.uk/east_harling/home.shtm

 

and here :- http://www.tournorfolk.co.uk/stainedglass.html

Edited January 4, 2019 by Shadow

[Martin S-C]

If you want painted churches, go no further than a local one to me, Sistine Chapel English Martyrs

 

and http://www.sistinechapeluk.co.uk/

 

I'm assuming James will be painting that in 4mm scale as the roof of his station waiting room.

[Donw]

Indexing works well when there is a logical sequence to something so there will only be a couple of reference pages listed for any topic and can get you to the right space. Here things move at such a pace that any response to something can be two or three pages back so looking up anything needs a bit of determination a topic may run for a bit then it switched to omething else but post refering to the original topic appears now and then and may lead to another flowering of the original topic. Fortunately there are some on here will seemingly encyclopedic knowledge an a question "Can anyone remember discussing xxxxxx?" will elict a suitable response.

To me this thread is like the after dinner and speech chatter of a knowledgeable society. The members will often talk about the speech just given but equally will wander off on other topics. In such a meeting you may mis much as there will be different conversations all ove the place. Here it is as though you could clearly hear all the conversations jumbled together. I like it. There is a lot to which I dont respond, as I feel I cannot add anything worth while but I can do whenever I feel I have something to say.

 

Don

[Martin S-C]

I see it more as a bunch of mates chatting in a pub! One of them is building a model railway and keeps getting out his phone to show images of his modelling and related photos off the internet while half the group respond to that and the other half are off nattering about everything else under the sun. On my thread I am copy-pasting the useful replies into a Word document (or several Word documents listed under different headings such as baseboards, signalling, etc) and saving them that way. I can't think of a better way to retain access to so much knowledge and information spewing out so rapidly.

 

Though I only have about 25 pages to go through and select the wheat from the chaff - and not 600+

Edited January 4, 2019 by Martin S-C

[Edwardian]

Have a look here :- http://www.norfolkstainedglass.co.uk/east_harling/home.shtm

 

and here :- http://www.tournorfolk.co.uk/stainedglass.html

 

Excellent, thanks.  The East Window of St Peter & St Paul, East Harling, very much looks the business:

 

... the five-light E. window ... - which, remarkably, retains much of its fifteenth century glass - ... has strong mullions and supermullioned drop tracery, but now there is... a castellated transom at the springing level, a castellated supertransom across the three central lights, higher up, and supermullions that continue all the way to the window head (i.e. without splitting into "Y"s) ...

 

http://www.english-church-architecture.net/norfolk/east%20harling/east_harling.htm

 

Gosh. 

 

And what a magnificent church!

 

My modelling skills will need to improve, however!

[Edwardian]

Since we are in Norfolk that would be at.

https://www.muckleburgh.co.uk/

 

close to the North Norfolk railway

 

Some very interesting models there.  A pre-Grouping selection includes some WW1 stuff, and some beautiful ship models including ironclads of the "black battlefleet" from Warrior to pre-Dreadnought cruisers.

 

Oh, and even some trains ...

[sem34090]

Interesting that, there, LSWR 488 is in WD Black - I was always told it stayed in LSWR livery when owned by the MoM. If not then mine will be getting a repaint!

 

In other news, and cross-posted from the 'Virtual Pre Grouping' thread, I've just bought the beautiful Wherry Lines route, modern one, that depicts Norwich - Great Yarmouth/Lowestoft and captures Norfolk very nicely!

Much nicer than the supplied Class 37 and MK2 coaches!

[RedGemAlchemist]

Ah, now I never said that I have anything against it! It might not be my sort of thing, admittedly, but I was more curious as to why so many people, especially (as I said) those outside of the mainstream (which many railway modellers are, which is fantastic in itself!). I may have to give it another try at some stage, just out of curiosity. I have seen little bits of it in the past.

I recommend Neon Genesis Evangelion and Full Metal Alchemist. Warning, both are really, really dark.

Or Nichijou and the aforementioned Girls und Panzer if you're just after something light hearted and funny.

Edited January 4, 2019 by RedGemAlchemist

[wagonman]

Of course, this would represent the Victorian restoration of a window vandalised by Puritan iconoclasts in the Seventeenth Century.

 

I was rather hoping that something from the Middle Ages had survived....

 

 

Two outbursts of iconoclasm surely, one in the 1550s and another a century later. Still, it was remarkable what many local people managed to protect, under the 'official' white wash. I don't know as much about Norfolk in the 16th and 17th centuries as I do (if I can still remember my undergraduate dissertation) about two counties further south, but perhaps you could 'discover' some local history. Wall paintings perhaps? Or a window dismantled or boarded over? Or a chantry chapel protected by the local gentry family?

 

(I'm afraid I haven't studied the history of Castle Aching enough to know when the Erstwhiles appeared on the scene.)

 

 

Lakenheath church – okay it's Suffolk not Norfolk, but hey – has had its medieval wall paintings uncovered http://www.lakenheathwallpaintings.co.uk/page2.html

 

Ranworth church – very much Norfolk – has a fine painted rood screen  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranworth_rood_screen. Norfolk has the best collection of rood screens in the country, in various states of repair, some 'restored' by the Victorians.

 

Wiveton church has a recently uncovered small window complete with hole supposedly caused by a Cromwellian musket ball.

 

All very interesting, but mostly modern: in Edwardian times I would think you're looking at plain whitewashed walls and a limited amount of coloured glass. Perhaps including a memorial window dedicated to a scion of the Erstwhiles who fell at Balaclava or Khartoum. Or Aldershot on a Saturday night...

[Edwardian]

It would be interesting to see what a ‘full on’ English church interior, with windows, looked like pre-reformation. A service, in a ‘foreign language’, in a ‘jewel box’ must have been a seriously different experience.

 

Try the early (1830s) Gothic Revival church of St. Mary with St. Peter, Oldham.  Though hardly a facsimile of the Mediaeval style, the vibrant colour of the interior, for me, gives an impression of the intense visual impact of a Parish Church might have offered pre-Reformation. It's pretty full-on.

[Nearholmer]

Fantastic(al).

 

We've just been watching a very interesting programme about King Ludwig II, so its a bit difficult not to find this Oldham interior a bit plain, tastefully under-decorated even, but it is pretty impressive.

[runs as required]

I wonder if it would be possible to index the thread without ending up in some form of Victorian asylum.

The Indexer has this very day just returned from sfoVa - actually Berlin!

 

Now we've both fallen into octogenarianism, the whole family took us aged parents there to celebrate the New Year - coincidentally.

Though I was born in the year of Munich and was set to learn German by a 'Progressive' County Education Authority in 1949 "so there will be no more wars", I'd never ever been to Berlin. Our language text book had been pre 1933 - mainly illustrated with elegant Fraus and exciting S-Bahnhofs.

I found the unified city Haunting - the centre dominated by memorials, museums, and a worrisome pervading State sense of Guilt.

Curiously many of the CA pages since we left on 27/12/18 have dealt with these very issues - militarism, pitch battle warfare, and 'Winning&Losing'.

 

In my work I've had some memorable experiences in ex German colonies - conversing in German with an old Chinese Lutheran priest when on a conservation assignment in Tientsin and building in Tabora for some years, the intended capital of Deutsches Ost Afrika planned to be formally opened by the Kaiser in December 1914.

This railway town is mainly associated by military historians with Von Lettow-Vorbeck the only General not to have surrendered in 1918. He is remembered for tying down large units of the Indian Army, the South Africans under Smuts, and the Kings African Rifles, the Portuguese and the Belgians in asymmetric highly mobile guerrilla warfare in Eastern Africa during an astonishingly innovative - but extremely brutal - campaign.

 

By demonstrating this he depressingly subjected Africa and now the world to such tactics requiring no more than a 4wd pick up truck, a few Kalashkinovs and a rocket launcher.

dh

 

Later edit

Amazing developments on the Drill Hall James!

Was that clerestory roof structure, mentioned above, this one I sent you in a PM (ripped off from Shillong) :

Edited January 5, 2019 by runs as required

[Edwardian]

Fantastic(al).

 

We've just been watching a very interesting programme about King Ludwig II, so its a bit difficult not to find this Oldham interior a bit plain, tastefully under-decorated even, but it is pretty impressive.

 

In my youth I toured all the Mad Ludwig castles and palaces. The really melancholy one was Herrenchiemsee, the unfinished Versailles. Aside from the fact that it was unfinished, it was a beautiful day and we were the only ones there. After having been marsched round the other crowded and bustling sites, that came as a profound shock. 

 

 

The Indexer has this very day just returned from sfoVa - actually Berlin!

 

Now we've both fallen into octogenarianism, the whole family took us aged parents there to celebrate the New Year - coincidentally.

Though I was born in the year of Munich and was set to learn German by a 'Progressive' County Education Authority in 1949 "so there will be no more wars", I'd never ever been to Berlin. Our language text book had been pre 1933 - mainly illustrated with elegant Fraus and exciting S-Bahnhofs.

I found the unified city Haunting - the centre dominated by memorials, museums, and a worrisome pervading State sense of Guilt.

Curiously many of the CA pages since we left on 27/12/18 have dealt with these very issues - militarism, pitch battle warfare, and 'Winning&Losing'.

 

In my work I've had some memorable experiences in ex German colonies - conversing in German with an old Chinese Lutheran priest when on a conservation assignment in Tientsin and building in Tabora for some years, the intended capital of Deutsches Ost Afrika planned to be formally opened by the Kaiser in December 1914.

This railway town is mainly associated by military historians with Von Lettow-Vorbeck the only General not to have surrendered in 1918. He is remembered for tying down large units of the Indian Army, the South Africans under Smuts, and the Kings African Rifles, the Portuguese and the Belgians in asymmetric highly mobile guerrilla warfare in Eastern Africa during an astonishingly innovative - but extremely brutal - campaign.

 

By demonstrating this he depressingly subjected Africa and now the world to such tactics requiring no more than a 4wd pick up truck, a few Kalashkinovs and a rocket launcher.

dh

 

Later edit

Amazing developments on the Drill Hall James!

Was that clerestory roof structure, mentioned above, this one I sent you in a PM (ripped off from Shillong) :

tin church.jpg

 

Welcome back!

 

Hope you had a great Christmas and New Year. Sounds like a great trip. 

 

A poignant and thoughtful post, and thank you for posting the Shillong roof. I searched and searched the topic for it, quite forgetting it was in a PM.  Unable to find it, I have made a start based on the design for the hall at Chapel Field Road, Norwich.  

 

Pictures to follow, and I'd quite like to finish the thing this weekend as I need to get on with some stock. 

 

I think it was the Germans who started beer production in China?

 

Apropos of nothing, fancy seeing if any of the old Brampton Railway can be walked?

[runs as required]

Sorry this may be irrelevant:

I tried dropping the tin church a la Shillong roof onto your photo and decided the straightforward clerestory might be less 'busy' in a quick computer exercise this morning.

Very much up for the Brampton walk - lets drive over the old Duke's railway across to the Alston viaduct on the way back. Excellent Philip Webb church with Burne-Jones windows.

dh

[drmditch]

In relation to the above posts, and being of an age and education and experience to consider the colonial era in most of it's aspects a disaster for both colonised and colonisers, I would like to point out that many eating establishments of Chinese background in England serve an excellent Tsing Tau beer.

 

Some good surviving then, from a particularly brutal episode of European (in this case German) expansionism.

 

And the remains of the East Asian Squadron of SM Kreigsmarine lie fathoms deep in the South Atlantic, together with their Admiral and his two sons.

 

Perhaps human beings should stick to what we're good at. Beer and Railways would be a good start.

 

(Although of course railways built by the 'colonial masters' may be viewed differently, and what human beings are undoubtedly best at is making more human beings which gives the planet many of its current problems.)

 

So much for the broad view.

 

Back to Railways in a carefully selected Historical Place and Period.

(and never mind if mine is some distance north of and some years later than CA and that I'm not allowed beer at the moment.)  

Edited January 5, 2019 by drmditch

[Compound2632]

Beer and Railways would be a good start.

 

 

Say, for what were hop-yards meant, or why was Burton built on Trent?

[wagonman]

Try the early (1830s) Gothic Revival church of St. Mary with St. Peter, Oldham.  Though hardly a facsimile of the Mediaeval style, the vibrant colour of the interior, for me, gives an impression of the intense visual impact of a Parish Church might have offered pre-Reformation. It's pretty full-on.

 

 

Looks like the sort of eye-watering stuff young Pugin used to come up with!

[Nearholmer]

Edwardian

 

The programme is available on iPlayer, and Dan Cruikshank gives major billing to the mini-Versailles. Only odd bit is Mr C’s pronunciations, which don’t seem quite right to me, but then maybe I know nuffink.

 

K

[runs as required]

To my eye the church of St Mary with St Peter Oldham "designed in the Gothic Revival Style by  Richard Lane,a Manchester-based Architect"  

 is interesting because it is still at the point in pre-Victorian Britain where architects prided themselves in being able to deliver in any style they and the client considered appropriate. Wyatt was the prime example of a theatrical designer in stone (and wrought iron for Brunel at Paddington).

 

Oldham's exterior still has the look of a 'Million Pound Church' - a minimalist nominally spiky Gothic job, the Post Waterloo outcome of squeezing as many churches as possible out of the sum allocated in the Acts to 'saving' the terrifying mobs up in the industrial areas from 'Godless Revolution'.

 

The Oxford Revolution and the true Battle of the Styles lay just around the corner. 

My heroes are Pugin, Butterfield, Waterhouse and Scott, who, Pevsner argued, were the true adventurers. Delivering new building types for industrialising Britain they broke all the Classical rules - opening the way to modern architectural design.

dh

[DonB]

While we have churches and style in mind you might like to look at a couple of links to Two churches fairly near to me, and both built in the Cromwell Period,

The Foremark church being plain and undecorated with a triple deck pulpit and box pews, the only stained glass being in the East window. 

 

https://derbyshirechurches.org/church/foremark-st-saviour

 

At Staunton Harold (perhaps 4 miles away from Foremark as the crow flies)

Built by a young Cavalier, Who lost his head for upsetting Cromwell in doing so.

Decorated and worth a visit 

 

www.nationaltrust.org.uk/staunton-harold-church

 

The difference between the two is remarkable.

[DonB]

While contemplating Church styles , you might like to compare two churches fairly near to me

 

https://derbyshirechurches.org/church/foremark-st-saviour

A stark interior with triple decker pulpit The only stained glass is in the East window

 

www.nationaltrust.org.uk/staunton-harold-church/features/the-chapel-of-the-holy-trinity-at-staunton-harold

Decorated, built by a young Cavalier who lost his head for upsetting Cromwell in doing so.

 

Both are of modest size and easily visited in one day.

 

Edit... having problems with internet and newly repaired computer hence second post on same topic... Sorry!

Edited January 5, 2019 by DonB

[drmditch]

DY11707 H&B No. 2322 showing correct method of loading casks.jpg

 

Say, for what were hop-yards meant, or why was Burton built on Trent?

 

Not sure about the stowage of those (empty?) barrels. Will have to look that up.

Wasn't Burton built for the water?

[Compound2632]

Not sure about the stowage of those (empty?) barrels. Will have to look that up.

Wasn't Burton built for the water?

 

The Derby Registers caption says "showing correct method of loading casks". This photo was taken on 12 November 1920; the method of loading more-or-less tallies with a BR document of 1957 - see fig. 2 in section 7.