runs as required Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) I have to confess – it's good for the soul, they say – that I regard the gothic revival as very much a dead end architecturally speaking, much like Modernism as applied to domestic architecture. Pugin in particular is inclined to induce a migraine despite a former flat-mate of a late girlfriend of mine having written a biography of the man. Plenty of folk agree with you - the Gov has just appointed the Cambridge Philosopher Roger Scruton to Chair the 'Building Better, Building Beautiful Commission', He is an advocate of a return to a Classical vernacular (along with the Prince of Wales) I'd like to post what has always astonished me as a masterpiece of tight street composition. at the right the ground plan is superimposed on the Google satellite view All Saints Margaret St, just behind the north side of Oxford St, exists thanks to a bravura freedom in arranging familiar Gothic building features: Spire; Nave; Porch, Lychgate; Buttresses and Gables spatially on a gap site that would have been well nigh impossible in the Classical - even for Wren with his ingenious Baroque City church rebuilds. I think Pevsner was right in claiming that it was the Gothicists who were able to open the way to the spatial freedom in Modern architecture. I'd also suggest that some of the best house projects in 'Grand Designs' are those on heavily constrained 'brownfield' sites realised as opportunities by owners working closely with good architects - often within tight budgets. dh Edited January 6, 2019 by runs as required 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 This part of Morningside Road in Edinburgh (the road with the tram lines on it) is known as 'Holy Corner', for obvious reasons! Jim 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Plenty of folk agree with you - the Gov has just appointed the Cambridge Philosopher Roger Scruton to Chair the 'Building Better, Building Beautiful Commission', He is an advocate of a return to a Classical vernacular (along with the Prince of Wales) I'd like to post what has always astonished me as a masterpiece of tight street composition. butterfield margaret st.jpg All Saints Margaret St, just behind the north side of Oxford St, exists thanks to a bravura freedom in arranging familiar Gothic building features: Spire; Nave; Porch, Lychgate; Buttresses and Gables spatially on a gap site that would have been well nigh impossible in the Classical - even for Wren with his ingenious Baroque City church rebuilds. I think Pevsner was right in claiming that it was the Gothicists who were able to open the way to the spatial freedom in Modern architecture. I'd also suggest that some of the best house projects in 'Grand Designs' are those on heavily constrained 'brownfield' sites realised as opportunities by owners working closely with good architects - often within tight budgets. dh I'd like to see the shoehorn they used for that! The Zeppelin is an unusual subject. Those involved in early air warfare do not have many memorials. The Saint Saviour's Parish War Memorial near London Bridge has had its Historic England listing upgraded to II* in large part due to the panel on the side of the base depicting WW1 aircraft. The principal figure is an infantryman and there is a panel with naval warfare on the other side of the base. St Saviour's Parish War Memorial air warfare panel.jpg Our neighbouring church, Saint Leonard's, Sutton with Seaford, has a memorial window to the memory of a young man from WW1. I think I remember seeing another, very similar, one in another church. Seaford St Leonard Maurice Galloway memorial window.jpg The War memorial at Port Sunlight in the Wirral also has some unusual panels. I've photos of them but can't find them at the moment, so I've borrowed the Naval one from Wikipedia... 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Plenty of folk agree with you - the Gov has just appointed the Cambridge Philosopher Roger Scruton to Chair the 'Building Better, Building Beautiful Commission', He is an advocate of a return to a Classical vernacular (along with the Prince of Wales) I'd like to post what has always astonished me as a masterpiece of tight street composition. butterfield margaret st.jpg at the right the plan is superimposed on the Google satellite view All Saints Margaret St, just behind the north side of Oxford St, exists thanks to a bravura freedom in arranging familiar Gothic building features: Spire; Nave; Porch, Lychgate; Buttresses and Gables spatially on a gap site that would have been well nigh impossible in the Classical - even for Wren with his ingenious Baroque City church rebuilds. I think Pevsner was right in claiming that it was the Gothicists who were able to open the way to the spatial freedom in Modern architecture. I'd also suggest that some of the best house projects in 'Grand Designs' are those on heavily constrained 'brownfield' sites realised as opportunities by owners working closely with good architects - often within tight budgets. dh The appointment of Scruton betrays an official nostalgia for the days of Empire that would be risible if it wasn't taken seriously by the Defence Secretary at least, planning to deploy our non-existent navy to non-existent bases in the far east. Politics at present feels like a nightmare it is impossible to wake from... That Margaret Street church reminds me of the north German Backsteingotik churches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) Is this Scruton thing real??!! Have we entirely opted-out of the modern world, in favour of pursuing the new national political philosophy: Highly Selective Nostalgia? Perhaps we have, perhaps thats what That Vote was really all about. "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the 21st Century or leave the 21st Century?" Actually, put like that, its not an easy question to answer! But, it does create a problem, in that a "leave" result doesn't answer the obvious question: "Having left the 21st Century, to which date in the past should the calendar be re-set?". There is clearly some popular favour for "about 1957", or "when I were a Lad/Lass", but among the more privileged "about 1720" seems to have a grip. Thank goodness this thread agrees on "Summer 1905". "To The Tardis!", which sounds almost better than "To the Barricades!". (For The Moderators: The foregoing is not politics; its bitter humour.) Edited January 6, 2019 by Nearholmer 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) Not wanting to sound TOO political*, but if we're dashing for the Tardis, may I suggest that we merely set the date of arrival to the 22nd of June 2016 and round up all the people due to vote "leave", assigning them a simple yet harmless task to occupy them throughout the 23rd June, say litter collecting and environmental rehabilitation on the Outer Hebrides and Shetlands. Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Gove and the Egregious Mogg could be tasked with scrubbing guano off Rockall. The destructive politiking we have endured for the past 29 months would then have been avoided. A good result all round, I think! As for the Scruton Commission, I feel that it should be rebranded the "Design Clever Commission". It would probably just as effective... * If fellow parishioners feel that this is so, I am perfectly happy to replace this post with Edwardian postcards of Fluffy Kittens. Edit: Korekshuns and spelin. Edited January 6, 2019 by Hroth 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmditch Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 I use the 21st century selectively, although how the 21st century will use me is of course another matter. Bywell in the Tyne Valley also has two churches. It can be visited using Stocksfield Station on the N&C, which although not as interesting as it was still has a nice NER footbridge. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Is this Scruton thing real??!! Have we entirely opted-out of the modern world, in favour of pursuing the new national political philosophy: Highly Selective Nostalgia? Perhaps we have, perhaps thats what That Vote was really all about. "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the 21st Century or leave the 21st Century?" Actually, put like that, its not an easy question to answer! But, it does create a problem, in that a "leave" result doesn't answer the obvious question: "Having left the 21st Century, to which date in the past should the calendar be re-set?". There is clearly some popular favour for "about 1957", or "when I were a Lad/Lass", but among the more privileged "about 1720" seems to have a grip. Thank goodness this thread agrees on "Summer 1905". "To The Tardis!", which sounds almost better than "To the Barricades!". (For The Moderators: The foregoing is not politics; its bitter humour.) I generally manage to hover around 1948... Certainly on MHR Rostered days I try and get close! Admittedly I have succumbed to the use of modern technology but that's because it's a requirement in the modern education system and in the world at large! But in other respects one can be nostalgic for a past they never knew and probably wouldn't have coped very well in. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 6, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2019 We spent 3 or so centuries or so invading other countries, and giving them administration that ran rough-shod over their sensibilities: we knew nothing else, and built the world’s largest empire based on insensitive organisation. We knew nothing else. Even after we had more or less officially stopped (because there was nowhere else to stake a claim), we still got a few more after WWI. Then came the “grouping era”, chacterised by the appearance of activity but which actually masked the internal decline, as investment declined. The rot had set in, but it took a generation before we realised this, and nationalised the railways. We had lost our way, and forgot how to be insensitive to other cultures. And then we spent just over the second half of the twentieth century pulling out of our empire with varying degrees of notice - but never enough time to get organised, other than maybe Canada - and leaving behind chaos and disorder. We knew nothing else. But just as gaining an empire has a finite resource, so does dismantling one. We have run out of countries we can disband into chaos, so have been forced to remove ourselves from the only supranational organisation we are involved with, even if it is a union and not an empire. We even got confused about the railways. Unfortunately, we never learned the lesson: it is the leaving country which endures the chaos. It was also thought that railways were better when private, but we messed up with that: a franchise operation with the network centrally owned. Creating chaos by leaving is all we know, nowadays. This has been the case since nationalisation, but arguably all that the Grouping Act did was paper over the cracks. There you go, Brexit explained by correlation with railways. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 This part of Morningside Road in Edinburgh (the road with the tram lines on it) is known as 'Holy Corner', for obvious reasons! Holy corner.JPG Jim Goodness, plenty still the same (and plenty different, too). The bank is still there (and was a bank until last year!). North Morningside Church is still there but has become a community centre, and the cross-hatched building next to the bank (a glasshouse?) is now a Tesco... No trams any more, either! When's that map from, please, Jim? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 Just think if Mr Cameron had did what he promised before the vote and invoke article 50 the next day we would be out by now and if MPs had worked together we might have achieved a reasonable result instead of undermining the governments attempts to negotiate but then pigs flying is probably more likely. To offer a referendum whose verdict you are not willing to accept must be the height of folly. Still which ever side of the argument is your choice we can choose not to fight each other over the issue on here. As for whether life might have been better in earlier days I suspect its the personal circumstances that matter most, health for one thing. I find Edwardian railways interesting but life could be very hard for some. It was a time when railwaymen were fighting for better working conditions but they were quite lucky compared to many. I had the opportunity to stay in a monastery for a few days and could see the attractions of a simple life with no worries but also no freedom the Abbot/Abbess had total control of your life. All lifestyle choices have consequences but you cannot always forsee them. Don 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 I was being facetious, but frivolity aside, Article 50 did not need to be invoked until we had put in place new trade agreements. It was our biggest lever in the whole negotiations, and we gave it away. Article 50 was about initiating the formal withdrawal. We could simply have said, “Not until we have agreed the final terms will we discuss the transition.” 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I was being facetious, but frivolity aside, Article 50 did not need to be invoked until we had put in place new trade agreements. It was our biggest lever in the whole negotiations, and we gave it away. Article 50 was about initiating the formal withdrawal. We could simply have said, “Not until we have agreed the final terms will we discuss the transition.” And as the European Court announced that we could withdraw the Article 50 letter without penalty and revert to the status quo ante referendum, then the possibility exists to grab hold of and exert that lever to the maximum. But the forces that seem insistent on driving through a "no-deal" exit won't countenance such a move. Perhaps we should draw a line under this unpaletable stuff and get back to pre-grouping Norfolk. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) Not wanting to sound TOO political*, but if we're dashing for the Tardis, may I suggest that we merely set the date of arrival to the 22nd of June 2016 and round up all the people due to vote "leave", assigning them a simple yet harmless task to occupy them throughout the 23rd June, say litter collecting and environmental rehabilitation on the Outer Hebrides and Shetlands. Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Gove and the Egregious Mogg could be tasked with scrubbing guano off Rockall. The destructive politiking we have endured for the past 29 months would then have been avoided. A good result all round, I think! As for the Scruton Commission, I feel that it should be rebranded the "Design Clever Commission". It would probably just as effective... * If fellow parishioners feel that this is so, I am perfectly happy to replace this post with Edwardian postcards of Fluffy Kittens. Edit: Korekshuns and spelin. Oiy, please don't use the Hebridies and Sheltands for dumping people of alternative views, The islands are too good for that. If you are going to dump them, please use the USA, they elected a leader over there that they might like... Edited January 7, 2019 by TheQ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Oiy, please don't use the Hebridies and Sheltands for dumping people of alternative views, The islands are too good for that. If you are going to dump them, please use the USA, they elected a leader over there that they might like... It was only a day trip, and they might also provide a boost to the local economy, but the scrubbers on Rockall could stay there for as long as it takes to get clean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Gentlemen, please! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 If your parish church has had some Victorian restoration work, it's quite likely that the the ubiquitous George Gilbert Scott will have been involved - Or, Ewan Christian (1814–95), he of the East Window at St James the Great, Castle Acre. He was Architect to the Ecclesiastical Commissioners from 1851 to 1895. As such, he was responsible for restorations and new-builds all over the country. Such work involved a variety of designs, styles and materials, though I note with pleasure that his design for his own house is in the Queen Anne/ Domestic Revival style that I really enjoy. Anyhow, in the course of my browsing, I discovered that he was responsible for a building of which I am particularly fond, St Marks, Leicester. Leicester has its historic corners and some very fine architecture, but it also has its share of post war "town planning" Ring Road and Roundabout Land, which is apt to seem somewhat soulless. Prominent in one such unpromising location is this large and dominant church, the apse and tower thrusting out defiantly into the traffic. Apparently built as an Evangelical preaching church, it is on a scale resembling the sort of large preaching church built outside the walls of Italian cities by mendicant orders in the Middle Ages. I love the bold and original layout, giving great movement to the prominent eastern end, and the impact of the use of local Charnwood stone-slate and the contrast with limestone. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2019 "Thank goodness this thread agrees on "Summer 1905". Endorsed, though I think Edwardian is thinking of May which is still spring, and perhaps we could broaden it to the period between 1895 and 1912 as that covers Chris N's period and mine, and I think most other pre-anything layouts I know of. And never winter, and autumn could make an attractive layout though painting the individual leaves on the trees different colours could distract seriously from posting on this thread. On congregations - suitable word? - of churches, even here in Newtown, pop 12,000, we have the redundant St Davids glowering over two chapels, one disused and decaying, while there are two other disused chapels within 50 yards. One is offices but the other remains empty. St Davids was bought for £1 to become an activity centre but is empty and unloved after a decade. And there are four others a few minutes walk from the main shopping street one of which is now occupied by a playgroup. More to the point, I think that a similar story could be written about many south Wales valleys towns. Which is why Nantcwmdu will have at least two chapels. And yes, life for many at the end of the 19th century was tough, but the trains were pretty, even if they probably didn't run on time. But let's brighten the day with my favourite railway poster - sorry if we have had it before. Jonathan and one for our host: 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinT Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 But let's brighten the day with my favourite railway poster - sorry if we have had it before. Jonathan Intercity monica.jpg Ah Monica! Where have you been these last 50 (ish) years? Yours wistfully Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2019 Ah Monica! Where have you been these last 50 (ish) years? Yours wistfully Martin Seeing a friend I would imagine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin S-C Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 *peeps cautiously into the thread*"Has the political discussion finished yet?" 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2019 *peeps cautiously into the thread* "Has the political discussion finished yet?" Why was som *peeps cautiously into the thread* "Has the political discussion finished yet?" Why was someone mentioning red banners flying high? at the top of the pages? Oh no they've shrunk to half their size!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 *peeps cautiously into the thread* "Has the political discussion finished yet?" Political? Us? Perish the thort! I need a new mouse, this one has a mind of its own... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Why was someone mentioning red banners flying high? at the top of the pages? DID SOMEONE SAY RED BANNERS? https://youtu.be/7IDmF1O4cNM 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) DID SOMEONE SAY RED BANNERS? As Private Eye once had it: "The Peoples Flag is deepest pink, its stained with spilt New Statesman ink"..... Edited January 7, 2019 by Hroth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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