Castle Aching

[Nearholmer]

The history of their factory certainly sounds like som thing devised for the WNR.

 

”The brewery was built in 1824 and was the property of John Richard Carter of Spalding, solicitor and brewer, who sold it in 1846 to Henry Bugg the Younger and William Henry Bugg of Spalding, brewers. Later the premises were used as a guano store, and in 1890 were purchased by Lee & Green, mineral water manufacturers.”

[Hroth]

10 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

And said philosophy exists today.  If you make an on line order and look at your order number.  Do you really think that this small emerging company has already taken 11200507 order before yours? Or maybe just 507.

 

I worked for a small software company a couple of decades ago, the serial number of their key product was based on the ages of the directors when the company was founded...

[Donw]

19 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

Burnham and District MRC had a lengthy series of often imaginary PO and company wagons they commissioned as fund-raisers for a variety of charities. They had a pale blue Cromer Crab and Fish van. Their range now no longer available, barring one or two remainders, can be seen on their site, with archived series on the right with rather low-key 'buttons'

 

These were largely the work of John Langley who is still doing some. John is a member of Somerset Railway Modellers. I wonder how much demand there might be for a WNR waggon?

 

Don

[wagonman]

15 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

I have a number of mineral wagons lettered for fictitious companies, mainly fellow members of the 2MM Scale Association.  In doing that I'm taking a leaf out of the late David Jenkinson's book! 

 

I've noticed when looking at photographs of PO wagons owned by small local merchants, who only had one wagon, that it is never numbered '1', but '3' or '5', always an odd number.  Presumably this was to suggest that they were actually a slightly larger concern who could afford to own more than one wagon!

 

Jim

 

Never say 'never' Jim. I can think of quite a few small merchants who were happy to start numbering their wagons at '1'. I can also think of others who used the date, their age or any other strange formula. In Somerset several collieries numbered their wagons in increments of three, mostly.

 

 

[Martin S-C]

3 hours ago, Donw said:

 

These were largely the work of John Langley who is still doing some. John is a member of Somerset Railway Modellers. I wonder how much demand there might be for a WNR waggon?

 

Don

I think the minimum run is around 100 models... we could probably consume a quarter of that here on RMWeb - though if he uses Dapol products as a base he may have fewer customers.

[Dave John]

Out of interest there was a third class of wagon alongside PO and company owned wagons. These were known as "Thirled" wagons, owned by the railway company but for the exclusive use of a particular company and only to be hauled by the particular railway company that supplied them.  The company name was usually added to the wagon in addition to the railway company lettering. Both the NB and CR had such arrangements between 1887 and 1911.

 

Here is an example of a CR D22 thirled to John Watson Ltd. 

 

A good chapter on the subject in "Caledonian Railway wagons" by Mike Williams. 

 

 

 

[wagonman]

The GWR did something similar with their 20T steel "Felix Pole" wagons some of which remained GWR stock but were discreetly branded with the name of the hiree. Fred Bendle of Frome was one such customer. Later they leased wagons to big users and allocated numbers prefixed 'H'.

 

 

 

[Northroader]

Here’s wagons to illustrate the last two posts, the William Baird one having NBR number plate:

[Compound2632]

6 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

I think the minimum run is around 100 models... we could probably consume a quarter of that here on RMWeb - though if he uses Dapol products as a base he may have fewer customers.

 

Depends. They have some 7 and 5 plank wagons that are abysmal antediluvian 10ft wheelbase monstrosities but also some 9ft wheelbase wagons that are moderately passable for 1887 RCH wagons - they even have Ellis type grease axleboxes and brakes one side only - both 7-plank and 5-plank varieties.

 

3 hours ago, Northroader said:

Here’s wagons to illustrate the last two posts, the William Baird one having NBR number plate:

 

 

Are there any known instances of this outside of the Great Western - attempting to encourage larger capacity wagons - and the Scottish central belt coalfields?

 

In England, usual practice was to hire from one of the private wagon building firms - what was different about Scottish conditions that made thirling attractive to the railway companies?

[Edwardian]

7 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Depends. They have some 7 and 5 plank wagons that are abysmal antediluvian 10ft wheelbase monstrosities but also some 9ft wheelbase wagons that are moderately passable for 1887 RCH wagons - they even have Ellis type grease axleboxes and brakes one side only - both 7-plank and 5-plank varieties.

 

 

Are there any known instances of this outside of the Great Western - attempting to encourage larger capacity wagons - and the Scottish central belt coalfields?

 

In England, usual practice was to hire from one of the private wagon building firms - what was different about Scottish conditions that made thirling attractive to the railway companies?

 

Those 5-planks (Link) would have been perfect for the WNR 5-planks, but I've bought in Cambrian Kits equivalents!

 

Wonder what Dapol's minimum order would be?!?

[Martin S-C]

19 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Depends. They have some 7 and 5 plank wagons that are abysmal antediluvian 10ft wheelbase monstrosities but also some 9ft wheelbase wagons that are moderately passable for 1887 RCH wagons - they even have Ellis type grease axleboxes and brakes one side only - both 7-plank and 5-plank varieties.

The 9ft wb 5-plank single sided brakes model does have potential. I had completely forgotten that Dapol had this tooling. You could do a lot with that from 1900ish to 1920.

[Martin S-C]

11 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Those 5-planks (Link) would have been perfect for the WNR 5-planks, but I've bought in Cambrian Kits equivalents!

 

Wonder what Dapol's minimum order would be?!?

I wonder. They would suit the NMR and GSR fleet as well.

 

From the limited edition vans I've come across on e-Bay, James, about 105 seems to be the minimum livery run (the insert cards in the boxes state that the wagon is "number XXX of (run number) so many" and the lowest "so many" I've seen is about 105. Odd number but there you go. I do not know what level of up-front investment they'd need.

[Donw]

7 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

I think the minimum run is around 100 models... we could probably consume a quarter of that here on RMWeb - though if he uses Dapol products as a base he may have fewer customers.

 

I will have a word with John if I see himon Wednesday just to get some info.

 

Don

[Shadow]

15 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

I wonder. They would suit the NMR and GSR fleet as well.

 

From the limited edition vans I've come across on e-Bay, James, about 105 seems to be the minimum livery run (the insert cards in the boxes state that the wagon is "number XXX of (run number) so many" and the lowest "so many" I've seen is about 105. Odd number but there you go. I do not know what level of up-front investment they'd need.

 

Guess there would be more in a run. That would allow for rejects, paint/printing testing,  QA checking, etc.

 

 

[Argos]

10 hours ago, wagonman said:

 

Never say 'never' Jim. I can think of quite a few small merchants who were happy to start numbering their wagons at '1'. I can also think of others who used the date, their age or any other strange formula. In Somerset several collieries numbered their wagons in increments of three, mostly.

 

 

 

Indeed, exceptions to every rule.

 

 

Also, whilst I don't know if was a practice adopted by other railway companies, but the LNWR ran a series of CCT vans with sign writing for various motor manufactures and garages. They also had Bicycle vans similarly sign written.

More famously they also ran a WH Smith newspaper train made up of 6w parcel vans in standard LNWR livery but sign written with WH Smith on the side.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Argos

[Nearholmer]

The earliest Palethorpes vans were similar, also LNWR, the identification being confined to a rather florid roof-board on each side IIRC.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

Those 5-planks (Link) would have been perfect for the WNR 5-planks, but I've bought in Cambrian Kits equivalents!

 

 

I wouldn't really go near them if there is a kit alternative. Where's the fun?

[phil_sutters]

14 hours ago, Argos said:

 

Indeed, exceptions to every rule.

 

 

Also, whilst I don't know if was a practice adopted by other railway companies, but the LNWR ran a series of CCT vans with sign writing for various motor manufactures and garages. They also had Bicycle vans similarly sign written.

More famously they also ran a WH Smith newspaper train made up of 6w parcel vans in standard LNWR livery but sign written with WH Smith on the side.

The LNWR weren't the only ones. This is one that I have started to develop from a photo in PO wagons of Somerset by Richard Kelham, using a shortened Parkside LMS CCT as the basis. The drawing under the blue has been adapted from one in Peter Tatlow's Historic Railway Carriages - Vol.3. I have made one false start and am making some revisions to the construction. Any member of the gentry, landed or otherwise could order a car with custom-built body work from any builder anywhere in the country, so this could turn up on any pre-1924 layout. The van was built by the S&DJR in 1908/9 and Fuller's stopped making custom bodies in 1924, although they continued as a motor car distributor. The S&DJR built it on the basis that they could use it when not needed by Fullers.

I have had the sides and ends printed as standard 7.5" x 5" photo prints. The shade and scale were my notations to gauge how the size and colour were printed. I know that I have to brighten my photos before printing because my current screen is brighter than my previous one and what I send to the printers (Photobox) comes out darker than I see it on screen. I sent off several variations of size and colour to assess the best one. Detailing will be added on top of the printed surfaces - e.g. door furniture, strapping on the end doors and handrails. There are rivets through the side panels, just above and between the two lower lines of lettering. I haven't shown these, although there are one or two black dots which I think come from the origial drawing and don't correspond with those on this vehicle.

Edited March 12, 2019 by phil_sutters
Additional info

[Nearholmer]

And, it can be printed to 0 scale...... pleeeease!

[Annie]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Those 5-planks (Link) would have been perfect for the WNR 5-planks, but I've bought in Cambrian Kits equivalents!

 

Wonder what Dapol's minimum order would be?!?

Looks Midland Railwayish (prods at it with walking stick).  Need some of those for the M&GN.  If I have 10 goods yards that means I need to draw up 10 of them...........

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, Annie said:

Looks Midland Railwayish (prods at it with walking stick).  

 

I'd use a bargepole myself. Why, when there's a much better (if not ideal) kit available. I'll give you the inside diagonal ironwork is nicely observed, with bolt heads on the sheeting and the tail ends on the solebar. But those great square-section channels to represent the top chamfer on each plank? I'm regretting drawing attention to this. I said "moderately passable" ... in the dark with the light behind her.

[Annie]

True enough the wagon almost looks like it has slatted sides with those great square section gaps between the planks.

[Edwardian]

9 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I'd use a bargepole myself. Why, when there's a much better (if not ideal) kit available. I'll give you the inside diagonal ironwork is nicely observed, with bolt heads on the sheeting and the tail ends on the solebar. But those great square-section channels to represent the top chamfer on each plank? I'm regretting drawing attention to this. I said "moderately passable" ... in the dark with the light behind her.

 

Old school, though surely even that tooling is not more than 43 years old!

[phil_sutters]

11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

And, it can be printed to 0 scale...... pleeeease!

As I have drafted it using the sources I declared as a starting point, I guess I own the copyright, although when one uses someone else's work in the mix, as with Peter Tatlow's original drawing, it is difficult to know what the legal status is.  I have no objection to its use. I do have versions without the drawing underneath it should that be needed. The blue may well need to be darkened for printing. This shade gets darkened when printed by my online photo processor. How it looks to you depends on the brightness of your computer screen.

[Martin S-C]

16 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

The LNWR weren't the only ones. This is one that I have started to develop from a photo in PO wagons of Somerset by Richard Kelham, using a shortened Parkside LMS CCT as the basis. The drawing under the blue has been adapted from one in Peter Tatlow's Historic Railway Carriages - Vol.3. I have made one false start and am making some revisions to the construction. Any member of the gentry, landed or otherwise could order a car with custom-built body work from any builder anywhere in the country, so this could turn up on any pre-1924 layout. The van was built by the S&DJR in 1908/9 and Fuller's stopped making custom bodies in 1924, although they continued as a motor car distributor. The S&DJR built it on the basis that they could use it when not needed by Fullers.

I have had the sides and ends printed as standard 7.5" x 5" photo prints. The shade and scale were my notations to gauge how the size and colour were printed. I know that I have to brighten my photos before printing because my current screen is brighter than my previous one and what I send to the printers (Photobox) comes out darker than I see it on screen. I sent off several variations of size and colour to assess the best one. Detailing will be added on top of the printed surfaces - e.g. door furniture, strapping on the end doors and handrails. There are rivets through the side panels, just above and between the two lower lines of lettering. I haven't shown these, although there are one or two black dots which I think come from the origial drawing and don't correspond with those on this vehicle.

Had you thought of approaching POWsides for a transfer set of this? I would imagine adding transfers to a model would be easier than adding 3D detail over a printed side/ends.