Castle Aching

[St Enodoc]

33 minutes ago, Hroth said:

Not to comment in ANY way, but I'm going to be completely shellfish - I've never liked crabs AT ALL...

 

(Especially the Lima ones, which wobble sideways, just like their namesakes!)

 

 

Shall I tell the joke about the chap who went to the doctor?

 

No I don't think so...

[Martin S-C]

Did he go into a bar first?

[St Enodoc]

53 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

Did he go into a bar first?

No, that must be a different joke.

Edited March 8, 2019 by St Enodoc

[nick_bastable]

surely these would be available 

 

I recall staying at Great Yarmouth early 1970's and my lovely mother sending a  package home to my Grand Father   ( innocent days)

 

Nick

 

[Hroth]

3 minutes ago, nick_bastable said:

surely these would be available 

 

I recall staying at Great Yarmouth early 1970's and my lovely mother sending a  package home to my Grand Father   ( innocent days)

 

Nick

 

 

They've exploded in transit?

 

Reminds me of the "Cheese" anecdote in "Three Men in a Boat"...

 

[nick_bastable]

9 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

They've exploded in transit?

 

Reminds me of the "Cheese" anecdote in "Three Men in a Boat"...

 

 

 

thank you just reread that chapter another happy memory  https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/j/jerome/jerome_k/three/chapter4.html   last read many years ago on a very idyllic  Greek isle 

 

Nick

[Edwardian]

6 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

They've exploded in transit?

 

Reminds me of the "Cheese" anecdote in "Three Men in a Boat"...

 

 

6 hours ago, nick_bastable said:

surely these would be available 

 

I recall staying at Great Yarmouth early 1970's and my lovely mother sending a  package home to my Grand Father   ( innocent days)

 

Nick

 

 

Why, was she in the Mafia?!?

 

While at university, friends of mine persecuted a pretty unpleasant individual by enrolling him in the Great Fish of the World Club.  All the literature was beautifully faked up; "you have been selected from thousands for free membership of the Great Fish of the World Club.  Every week we will send you - completely free of charge - one of the Great Fish Absolutely Free, collect the set and send away for our bespoke pine-effect display cabinet for No Extra Cost, etc, etc."  One month there was a special promotion for the Mighty Molluscs Club.

 

So, every week he'd find a dead fish in his pgeon hole.

 

Only later, and with a terrible sense of guilt at what they'd done, did my friends see The Godfather .... 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Edwardian
Anecdote

[corneliuslundie]

Back briefly on milk traffic on the SER and LCDR, how much would there have been at that period? A lot of milk cows were kept in the London area to supply local needs, and I have a feeling that long distance shipping of milk would only have been building up prior to the last two decades before the SECR was formed.

And on flour, if the GWR thought sheeted opens were good enough for flour - though Spillers didn't, and that was around the tun of the century - i suspect that smaller companies would have felt the same. also, how many milk cows were there in 'Kent?

Jonathan

[Northroader]

I think farming is subject to fashion as to what’s profitable, for instance you’d never see a field for rape seed in Britain in Victorian times, so I’d agree dairy herds would be slow to build up, and centre on the areas with lush pastures, whilst Kent was busy with hops, orchards, Romney Marsh sheep. You’d see cows there, but more likely for beef?

By the by, Jonathan, I enjoyed your article in the Journal on the BCR Montgomery branch, started me off thinking how much of a track layout would be needed, (not a lot, I think), what loco they would have had, so on and so forth.

Lastly, another not refraining from comment, with a reminder of the little poem that started about how it was no good to stand on the seat.

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

 

Why, was she in the Mafia?!?

 

While at university, friends of mine persecuted a pretty unpleasant individual by enrolling him in the Great Fish of the World Club.  All the literature was beautifully faked up; "you have been selected from thousands for free membership of the Great Fish of the World Club.  Every week we will send you - completely free of charge - one of the Great Fish Absolutely Free, collect the set and send away for our bespoke pine-effect display cabinet for No Extra Cost, etc, etc."  One month there was a special promotion for the Mighty Molluscs Club.

 

So, every week he'd find a dead fish in his pgeon hole.

 

Only later, and with a terrible sense of guilt at what they'd done, did my friends see The Godfather .... 

 

 

 

Similar to an incident in a recent episode of "Endeavour".....

(not the last one with the gunfight at the OK Corral, probably the previous one)

Edited March 8, 2019 by Hroth
Clarification

[corneliuslundie]

I am hoping to get a thread going here on the BCR prototype and model, but I need help from a moderator to start the appropriate section in which to put it. 

The answer to your question in our case is four turnouts. If hat is not minimalist enough for you, how about Scafell?

If you want a laugh, the Newtown Model Railway Society has a Facebook page - and soon we hope a website.

Jonathan

Sorry, Edwardian, normal service can now resume - whatever that is.

[Martin S-C]

There was once a normal service?

[Regularity]

Is it normal, service, or both words together than raise the question?

[wagonman]

20 hours ago, nick_bastable said:

surely these would be available 

 

I recall staying at Great Yarmouth early 1970's and my lovely mother sending a  package home to my Grand Father   ( innocent days)

 

Nick

 

 

Nowadays they are sent out in vacuum packed plastic... https://cleysmokehouse.com/bloaters

 

 

[St Enodoc]

54 minutes ago, wagonman said:

 

Nowadays they are sent out in vacuum packed plastic... https://cleysmokehouse.com/bloaters

 

 

How boring.

 

More than 50 years ago I went on a school camp to Walberswick (which is where I discovered the Southwold Railway but that's another story). We had a day in Great Yarmouth and, knowing that my Grandad liked bloaters, I bought some for him.

 

When I got home nearly a week later they were, shall we say, somewhat ripe.

[Annie]

On 08/03/2019 at 11:09, Martin S-C said:

It's ten past ten, G&T number 3 is by my side and I just stumbled on this James... and thought of you.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dapol-Limited-Edition-oo-wagons/264219611861?hash=item3d84b752d5:g:zYYAAOSwKgtceSd3&frcectupt=true

All thoughts of 'personal' discomfort and horrifying infestations aside is that van's livery Dapol's own flight of fancy or is it actually legit?  I run fish trains from Cromer on my huge and meandering M&GNJR-GER-GCR digital layout in good solid no nonsense GNR fish traffic vans and it would be a spot of fun to adapt that PO livery and make a digital model of it.

[Compound2632]

29 minutes ago, Annie said:

All thoughts of 'personal' discomfort and horrifying infestations aside is that van's livery Dapol's own flight of fancy or is it actually legit?  I run fish trains from Cromer on my huge and meandering M&GNJR-GER-GCR digital layout in good solid no nonsense GNR fish traffic vans and it would be a spot of fun to adapt that PO livery and make a digital model of it.

 

You really are tempting me to comment...

 

Stick with those GNR fish vans.

[Edwardian]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

You really are tempting me to comment...

 

Stick with those GNR fish vans.

[Annie]

Too late Stephen the artwork is almost done.........

I needed a little silly wake me up project after being asleep for hours.  

[Shadow]

36 minutes ago, Annie said:

 

 

Found this old cutting in a scrapbook whilst clearing out. Instantly thought of this thread.

 

Edit-not sure why Annie's quote is there. Can't seem to be able to remove it.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Shadow

[Annie]

I get everywhere  

 

Very nice Kirtley well tank by the way.

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

The short answer: a work of fiction.

 

The long answer, to which of course there is inevitably a handful of exceptions:

 

The pre-Grouping railways only tolerated private-owner wagons for coal and some other mineral traffic (stone direct from quarries, either crushed or building stone, tar and oil) because there was a financial advantage to both the railway and the trader (colliery, quarry, factor, merchant). Bill Hudson, Private Owner Wagons (The Oakwood Press, 1996), reports the findings of the 1925 Royal Commission on the Coal Industry that pooling of PO coal wagons, or their purchase by the railway companies, would not lead to any financial saving and would lead to inefficiencies in the coal mining industry - collieries being stopped for shortage of wagons. (The coal owners in the north east complained of exactly this, the North Eastern Railway having resolutely held out against PO wagons.) Once the 1887 RCH standards, including the requirement for inspection and registration by one of the railway companies, were established, the railways were evidently happy with this way of working. They avoided the capital expenditure involved in supplying a fleet of half-a-million wagons and reduced the occasions for acrimony with their customers. (The Midland Railway did put quite a lot of money into buying up old private owner wagons, effectively subsidising their replacement with wagons meeting the RCH specification.) 

 

Fish and other perishable traffic such as soft fruit (along with all merchandise traffic) was conveyed in railway company owned vehicles. I suspect that there were a number of factors at play here. Certainly vehicles for perishable traffic were more expensive to build and maintain than mineral wagons. Many of these types of traffic were seasonal; the traders had no incentive to have valuable assets standing idle. The total volume of traffic was much smaller than for minerals and by-and-large the shipping and receiving customers were much smaller businesses; quite possibly an individual trader would not be consigning a full wagon load. Where there was a steady flow of traffic at the wagon-load level, it was evidently still preferable to use railway company wagons - occasionally the railway would supply bespoke wagons, as in the case of the AVB-fitted, sheet rail equipped wagons the Midland built for biscuit traffic from Carrs of Carlisle. Another Midland vehicle can be seen in biscuit traffic in this c. 1899 Huntley & Palmers photo, along with wagons from several railways more local to Reading; my suspicion is that Huntley & Palmers had entered into a contract with the Midland for shipping of its products to wholesalers in the midlands and north, so one or more empty wagons were sent south from Birmingham or Derby maybe daily.

 

There are a few cases of railway-owned wagons being painted in the customer's livery, the best-known being some LMS and SR vans painted up for Express Dairy Co. egg traffic in the 1930s - these come the closest to the sort of fictional van livery to which the RTR manufacturers are addicted. (They sell, so who's to blame them? - it's a long-standing tradition in the industry and after all they're commercial firms not educational charities.) From pre-Grouping days, there are the PO covered goods wagons of several, chiefly Kentish, breweries, the purpose of which does not seem yet to have been adequately explained, at least within the orbit of the CA thread. Then there's the case of the Colman's of Norwich wagons, which were possibly dedicated to block trains of mustard seed (presumably in sacks) from port to factory.

 

True answer: £sd, for both prototype and model. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Compound2632

[Martin S-C]

13 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

How boring.

 

More than 50 years ago I went on a school camp to Walberswick (which is where I discovered the Southwold Railway but that's another story). We had a day in Great Yarmouth and, knowing that my Grandad liked bloaters, I bought some for him.

 

When I got home nearly a week later they were, shall we say, somewhat ripe.

When I was about 12 I went to France for a week with a school trip. I wanted to get my family something as a gift but had only schoolboy money at my disposal but hit upon the idea of getting them a croissant each. I was so proud of myself when I went into a local boulangerie and managed "Bonjour, cinque croissant sil vous plais; merci beaucoups". When I got them home a few days later everyone wore a fixed smile of enjoyment as they chewed through the stale leathery things...

At least after 4 or 5 days croissants don't pong.

[Martin S-C]

30 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

The pre-Grouping railways only tolerated private-owner wagons for coal and some other mineral traffic (stone direct from quarries, either crushed or building stone, tar and oil) because there was a financial advantage to both the railway and the trader (colliery, quarry, factor, merchant). Bill Hudson, Private Owner Wagons (The Oakwood Press, 1996), reports the findings of the 1925 Royal Commission on the Coal Industry that pooling of PO coal wagons, or their purchase by the railway companies, would not lead to any financial saving and would lead to inefficiencies in the coal mining industry - collieries being stopped for shortage of wagons. (The coal owners in the north east complained of exactly this, the North Eastern Railway having resolutely held out against PO wagons.) Once the 1887 RCH standards, including the requirement for inspection and registration by one of the railway companies, were established, the railways were evidently happy with this way of working. They avoided the capital expenditure involved in supplying a fleet of half-a-million wagons and reduced the occasions for acrimony with their customers. (The Midland Railway did put quite a lot of money into buying up old private owner wagons, effectively subsidising their replacement with wagons meeting the RCH specification.) 

 

Fish and other perishable traffic such as soft fruit (along with all merchandise traffic) was conveyed in railway company owned vehicles. I suspect that there were a number of factors at play here. Certainly vehicles for perishable traffic were more expensive to build and maintain than mineral wagons. Many of these types of traffic were seasonal; the traders had no incentive to have valuable assets standing idle. The total volume of traffic was much smaller than for minerals and by-and-large the shipping and receiving customers were much smaller businesses; quite possibly an individual trader would not be consigning a full wagon load. Where there was a steady flow of traffic at the wagon-load level, it was evidently still preferable to use railway company wagons - occasionally the railway would supply bespoke wagons, as in the case of the AVB-fitted, sheet rail equipped wagons the Midland built for biscuit traffic from Carrs of Carlisle. Another Midland vehicle can be seen in biscuit traffic in this c. 1899 Huntley & Palmers photo, along with wagons from several railways more local to Reading; my suspicion is that Huntley & Palmers had entered into a contract with the Midland for shipping of its products to wholesalers in the midlands and north, so one or more empty wagons were sent south from Birmingham maybe daily.

 

There are a few cases of railway-owned wagons being painted in the customer's livery, the best-known being some LMS and SR vans painted up for Express Dairy Co. egg traffic in the 1930s - these come the closes to the sort of fictional van livery to which the RTR manufacturers are addicted. (They sell, so who's to blame them? - it's a long-standing tradition in the industry and after all they're commercial firms not educational charities.) From pre-Grouping days, there are the PO covered goods wagons of several, chiefly Kentish, breweries, the purpose of which does not seem yet to have been adequately explained, at least within the orbit of the CA thread. Then there's the case of the Colman's of Norwich wagons, which were possibly dedicated to block trains of mustard seed (presumably in sacks) from port to factory.

 

How did the well-known legal issue between the GWR and Spillers flour with their PO painted iron mink flour vans fit into this?

Be aware however that a number of breweries had their own vans, notably in Kent, probably because the traffic was not seasonal. Or were these railway company owned vehicles bearing the customer's livery as referenced above?

 

There were a number of cement vans bearing PO liveries as well.

There's always an exception one has to be (annoyingly) aware of.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Martin S-C

[Fat Controller]

7 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

When I was about 12 I went to France for a week with a school trip. I wanted to get my family something as a gift but had only schoolboy money at my disposal but hit upon the idea of getting them a croissant each. I was so proud of myself when I went into a local boulangerie and managed "Bonjour, cinque croissant sil vous plais; merci beaucoups". When I got them home a few days later everyone wore a fixed smile of enjoyment as they chewed through the stale leathery things...

At least after 4 or 5 days croissants don't pong.

You can make a nice bread and butter pudding with stale croissants....