Castle Aching

[Nearholmer]

As you drew it, but:

 

- make that cattle dock siding diverge from the warehouse siding; and,

 

- add a crossover between the siding and the run-around, just outside the warehouse.

 

Logic? I think that it was operated by queuing wagons on one road, shunting a couple at a time into the warehouse, then drawing them out onto the adjacent road, an ‘in-bound’ and an ‘out-bound’ road effectively, and the choice seems to be between adding another siding, or using the run-around as the outbound, which is what I’m proposing, because the fixed locations of structures seem to preclude adding another siding.

 

i still smell gravity, or possibly a lot of horse-haulage in the original - I bet the loco pulled the trains no further than the first points, then scuttled off into the shed, only to emerge when a train had been assembled for departure.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Northroader]

I remarked over on Annie’s thread yesterday that Ordnance Survey draughtsman were total yokels when it came to track layouts, and I reckon this is another good example.

Relaxing after a day out, same area, but Conan Doyle, not Jane Austen.

[Nearholmer]

East Dean, or West Dean, I can never remember which ...... they were on my bike ride too.

[Northroader]

East Dean, totally idyllic village green.

[Annie]

36 minutes ago, Northroader said:

I remarked over on Annie’s thread yesterday that Ordnance Survey draughtsman were total yokels when it came to track layouts, and I reckon this is another good example.

 

 

With the the 1880 Truro map all the eastern exit goods yard points melted into a strange fudge that could have been any number of things, but fortunately I was able to figure it out.

[Annie]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

No, but would have a very different look

 

 

Well, I am attempting to rationalise and simplify this plan:

 

 

The prototype station opened 9 July 1856, and was closed to passengers on 1 May 1862.

 

Now, the map is dated 1858. I don't know if I can trust that. In 1858 it was still open as a passenger station and was the only station.  Yet, it is labelled "Old Station". The new station did not open until 1861. 

 

I mention this because, post 1862 it became a goods only station and later Victorian maps show a significantly changed track layout.  This map is clearly at least close to the original arrangement but there are oddities.  look at where you'd expect (and I have put) the end of the run-round loop. 

 

 

Well done. I'm thinking (i) turn of the century (ii) Central Division. So, I am looking at what the arrangement might have been had it remained open to the 1900s. 

 

 

I have little experience in operationally prototypical and practical track layouts, hence opening it up to questions from the floor. 

 

 

It's the sort of plan I'd want to layout on a a digital layout board to make any sense of it.  Some of the trackwork lines are badly blurred together so it's not easy to figure out what's going on with them.

Do you know the overall length of the trackwork shown on the plan at all?

[Northroader]

Just trying to make head or tail of the buildings for the station in that old plan. There’s a couple of photos on the disused stations site, which was this?  Very nice architecture, then there’s the portico which has been carried off, a kind of mini Euston arch, is this the dotted extension to the building at the top, or is it placed somewhere else?

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/barnard_castle/index0.shtml

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

As you drew it, but:

 

- make that cattle dock siding diverge from the warehouse siding; and,

 

- add a crossover between the siding and the run-around, just outside the warehouse.

 

Logic? I think that it was operated by queuing wagons on one road, shunting a couple at a time into the warehouse, then drawing them out onto the adjacent road, an ‘in-bound’ and an ‘out-bound’ road effectively, and the choice seems to be between adding another siding, or using the run-around as the outbound, which is what I’m proposing, because the fixed locations of structures seem to preclude adding another siding.

 

i still smell gravity, or possibly a lot of horse-haulage in the original - I bet the loco pulled the trains no further than the first points, then scuttled off into the shed, only to emerge when a train had been assembled for departure.

 

Thanks, though I might need to press you for a diagram to indicate the location of the crossover.

 

41 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Just trying to make head or tail of the buildings for the station in that old plan. There’s a couple of photos on the disused stations site, which was this?  Very nice architecture, then there’s the portico which has been carried off, a kind of mini Euston arch, is this the dotted extension to the building at the top, or is it placed somewhere else?

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/barnard_castle/index0.shtml

 

There are a number of problems in recreating the 1850s architecture:

 

- The surviving station building is largely as built on the forecourt side, save for the portico being in Saltburn, but the platform face is buried by later accretions. 

 

 

- RCTS has a view of the end of the warehouse (goods shed), but even that is probably an extension.

 

- No views of the engine shed. Barnard Castle (new station) and Kirkby Stephen examples were naturally later (1860s) 

 

 

[uax6]

The thing with maps which is the difficult bit is to find out the date of the base map that was used in its preparation. This is of course used for a very long time with just amendments happening every now and again. It’s likely that the railway features won’t have been amended very often, as track layouts were probably seen to be as important as what crop was growing in a glasshouse. I would always treat os maps as guides only, and use photos as much as you can.

 

andy g

[runs as required]

Wot no portico?

Aha!  But wait ...

Here's the missing article

 

 

masquerading as the Albert Memorial in Saltburn Valley Gardens

Quote

from the listing of Valley Gardens:

In the central part of the park, south of the site of Saltburn Bridge, stands the Albert Temple (listed grade II), formerly the portico of Barnard Castle railway station.

The portico was brought to the Valley Gardens in 1867 to be reused as a memorial to Prince Albert and was incorporated into Newton¿s landscape design. The building has two pairs of Corinthian columns and in its new location is provided with a back wall and apsidal recess.

HTH 

dh

[nick_bastable]

which brings me to this

 

 

 

Nick

[St Enodoc]

13 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

This thread ....

 

Round
Like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending nor beginning
On an ever-spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain
Or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel that's turning
Running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping
Past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple
Whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind

Now look what you've done. All I can see in my mind's eye now is Hannah Gordon on the Morecambe and Wise Show (not that that's a bad thing at all...).

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Northroader said:

East Dean, totally idyllic village green.

And a very good pub on it.

[Northroader]

The Tiger, I have to confess I was watching the time, so used the Hikers Rest, bottle of beer and a smoked salmon sarnie. Sorry about that.

[Northroader]

And another thing, James, as the station front is so good nd you don’t know what’s behind, why not flip it front to back, station building and portico and the engine shed to the front, goods sidings to the back. Now where have I seen that?

[Compound2632]

8 hours ago, uax6 said:

The thing with maps which is the difficult bit is to find out the date of the base map that was used in its preparation. This is of course used for a very long time with just amendments happening every now and again. It’s likely that the railway features won’t have been amended very often, as track layouts were probably seen to be as important as what crop was growing in a glasshouse. I would always treat os maps as guides only, and use photos as much as you can.

 

andy g

 

There was a topic on this point recently: 

I would say that where I have compared the OS 25" map with other published sources - derived from railway company 2 chain/inch surveys or signal box diagrams - they are a reasonably good representation although they don't distinguish between slips and plain crossings. They're good on the location of signal posts - nice pointy-uppy things easy to pick out with the theodolite. I've mostly been focusing on c. 1900. 

 

That topic included a link to the "Instructions to field examiners", drawing attention to Paragraphs 99-116.

[Donw]

I dont think the Surveyors recognised the importance of the run around as quite a few seem to have missed the cross over out.  Rather than the sidings crosssing the plan reads to me that there was a cross over btween the two sidings this form form a short run around in the goods yard useful when shunting particularly if there was a train standing in the main line blocking a run around.  

 

Don

[Compound2632]

The differences between the 1896 and 1919 surveys are curious enough. Taking these at face value, when the station became goods only, the platform line was cut back to the far end of the coal drops and a couple of extra sidings added alongside the loop on the goods shed line - which still provides the only run-round. By 1919, it's been found convenient to extend the former passenger line to join the outer of these two sidings, giving an unencumbered run-round at last. There's no sign of any signalling, so presumably the goods station was worked as a siding from the new station, in which case trains may have been propelled in. If that's the case, the loop on the goods shed line isn't (and never was) a true run-round, simply a pair of lines, one for wagons waiting to go into the goods shed, the other for wagons taken out.

 

Looking at the modern map and aerial photos, the line of the railway is partly preserved in subsequent boundaries.

 

Sorry, none of this helps with the pre-1862 layout.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Compound2632

[runs as required]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

There was a topic on this point recently: 

 

i have enjoyed nocturnal forays among the NLS 1:500 scale Georeferenced maps of Bristol that shew broad, narrow and mixed gauge:

it is fun tracing it east out of Temple Meads: Dr Day's junction etc.; it looks pretty definitive to me. 

dh

[Edwardian]

21 hours ago, Annie said:

It's the sort of plan I'd want to layout on a a digital layout board to make any sense of it.  Some of the trackwork lines are badly blurred together so it's not easy to figure out what's going on with them.

Do you know the overall length of the trackwork shown on the plan at all?

 

I reckon that the station is probably about 20' in 4mil, so compression is called for. I'd like to get it down to 12'.

 

I'd like to stick to a minimum 4'6" of platform.  This allows for a small 4-coupled tender engine and six 6-wheel coaches to look relatively comfortable, with over a foot of platform spare.

 

So, do we think this is any better?

 

 

 

[Annie]

Looks to be very workable James.  I did a little imaginary shunting in my head and I have to say I like it.  I like the position of the goods yard loop.  Nicely sized too so a little thinking is required when sorting out a rake of mixed goods wagons, but not so small as to be frustrating.

[nick_bastable]

I rather like this and apologies to the council for my late reply but have spent the day digging a ditch and lining it with Punji sticks  followed by extracting  venom from angry cats which actually took the most time

 

Build it in 2mm and its only 10' long

 

Nick

[Edwardian]

This morning's news seems to focus on BREXIT and the situation in Hong Kong, but perhaps we should be more worried about the fate of India's probe in the unexplored polar regions of the Moon.

 

What is out there, I wonder?

 

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

7 hours ago, nick_bastable said:

I rather like this and apologies to the council for my late reply but have spent the day digging a ditch and lining it with Punji sticks  followed by extracting  venom from angry cats which actually took the most time

 

I cannot help feel that some amplification would be both interesting and enlightening. 

 

7 hours ago, nick_bastable said:

Build it in 2mm and its only 10' long

 

 

 

Tempting, however, given how I struggle to achieve satisfactory results in 4mm, that might prove a bridge too far.

[Donw]

It looks good to me. The only question I have is it looks as through the access to the turntable is via a loading dock so I would want to ensure there was sufficient room for the largest vehicle to use the dock and the largest loco likely to run  to both fit in and still allow the turnout to operate.

 

Don