Ones that got away

[lanchester]

Ones that got away

 

In my fantasy world, the one where I actually have the time, skill and cash to build a layout, I sometimes think of one based on the Preservation era, but featuring exclusively locomotives (and other rolling stock) that so nearly made it to preservation.

I don’t mean engines that schoolboys tried to reserve but found their pennies wouldn’t add up, nor indeed the difficult choices the forerunners of the Scottish RPS faced (J36, N15, Pickersgill 4-4-0) that have I think been documented elsewhere on this forum.

No, what I am thinking of is the stuff that was officially, or semi-officially, intended for presentation but didn’t ‘make the cut’.

Some are obvious – we all know the tragic tale of the HR 4-4-0 Ben Alder; or in an earlier generation the fate of North Star and Lord of the Isles.

 

Beyond that?

I believe Derby had a 1930s clearout including a Kirtley 2-4-0 (a gap which it was subsequently possible to plug). I think there may have been a NLR 4-4-0T involved? Where there others?

Similarly, I have an idea that Eastleigh pre-war had quite a collection, possibly including some interesting Isle of Wight relics, but that these went in the war-time scrap drive.

I know the last NBR Atlantic, Midlothian, was restored and brought back into limited service around 1939, with an intention towards preservation, but again got cut up in the WWII scrapping.

Earlier, the last NER ‘398’ class 0-6-0, no 991 I think, was retained for preservation in the new York Museum but according to the RCTS Green books was passed over in favour of the GNR single no 1 (and I suppose if you really can only take one, that was the right choice). Around the same time an early GNSR 4-4-0 (by Manson?) was restored for the S&D Centenary show – was this ever intended for preservation?

Were there others that were earmarked and then discarded, or retained ‘in the hope’?  (Not just main line perhaps: I know the NCB at Lambton Engine Works held on to no 27 for some years in the hope of a buyer – it had some claim to an identity going back to around 1846, with a history about as complex as that of Aerolite, happily still with us).

Where there any instances of carriages or wagons similarly being ‘safeguarded’, at least for a while, before meeting the knacker’s yard? Because my fantasy layout will need some rolling stock!

I don’t know whether it is permissible to go OT on my own topic on a first post, but

a)      Was Stanier really responsible for the Derby carnage having brought nasty ideas from Swindon, or is that a gross libel?

b)      Either way, how the heck did Crewe manage to hang on to Columbine and Cornwall (two of the most fascinating, and perhaps most ignored, survivors of all)?

[Marshall5]

The collection at Derby also included a Kirtley 0-6-0 which was subsequently cut up.

Ray.

[31A]

At the same time that Stratford Works restored the LTS 4-4-2T 'Thundersley' (for the LTS Centenary celebrations), they also restored an LTS coach to go with it which was subsequently scrapped, as was a Wisbech & Upwell line coach which was also restored at Stratford around the same time.

[IWCR]

The  Isle  of  Wight  relic  was  Beyer  Peacock  2-4-0T  "Ryde"  supplied  new  to  the  Isle  of  Wight  Railway in 1864

When  withdrawn  in  1932  it  was the Southern  Railways  oldest  engine,  there  was  a  hope  for  peservation  but  no  firm plans,  it  was  stored in  the  Eastleigh  paintshop  along  with  the  LSWR  "Bug"  and two  LSWR  0-6-0 tanks  from  1876.

All  scrapped  early  in  world  war  two partly for  the  metal  but  mainly  to  clear  the paintshop  for  war work.

A  great  pity  this  was  lost  but  understandable in the  circumstances 

 

Pete

[John_Miles]

I believe the Derby collection also included a Johnson 0-4-4T.

[602Squadron]

The GNSR 4-4-0 you refer to was Class D47/2 No. 45A, originally built in 1866 to a design by Cowan, and rebuilt by Manson sometime between 1889 and 1891. It was repainted in GNSR green for the 1925 Railway Centenary procession, in which it hauled a rake of GNSR coaches. According to the RCTS Green Book Volume 4, it was then withdrawn on 31st July 1925, but retained for a short time as Inverurie Works shunter pending possible preservation before being scrapped later the same year.

 

A similar fate befell North British Class J31 0-6-0 No.381 (LNER No. 1114), built in 1868, which was partially restored to an approximate appearance of it's original condition for the procession, but scrapped immediately afterwards. Details are in the RCTS Volume 5.

 

I haven't come across any references to coaching or wagon stock being officially retained for preservation and then scrapped, and, given that apart from Royal Saloons and other "special" vehicles there wasn't much interest in preserving rolling stock until relatively recent times, I think it is unlikely that any vehicles survived in this way as part of company policies. However, withdrawn coaches were often retained for departmental purposes or sold on for other uses. Many have since been rescued and restored from these sources, although many more have been lost, and these may offer a way of populating your layout with rolling stock. For example, there is a picture in the RCTS Volume 10B of Sentinel Steam Railcar Old John Bull in use as a cricket pavilion at Darlington in 1961, and one of the Clayton 4-wheel trailers built to work with the railcars as a summerhouse at Cowden in 1977. Both the National Coal Board and Ministry of Defence used interesting old coaches and wagons for many years after withdrawal and could provide a rich source of "virtual preservation" - see Robert Hendry's British Railway Coaching Stock in Colour for some ideas. The Longmoor Military Railway and the former Shropshire & Montgomeryshire Railway (under MoD control until 1960) are also worth researching. Right up until closure, the S&M possessed eight former London Tilbury and Southend railway open coaches built for the Ealing Broadway to Southend service via the LT District Line - what a shame at least one of these did not survive. 

[BG John]

GWR broad gauge "Lord of the Isles" and "North Star". Some bits of other broad gauge locos survived as stationary engines well into the 20th century too. But I'd rather model the period when they were working, rather than in preservation, although it would be tempting to model a preserved railway converted back to broad gauge!

[John_Miles]

The Derby clearout was ordered by Stanier - shades of the GWR who destroyed their heritage.

[JimC]

The Derby clearout was ordered by Stanier - shades of the GWR who destroyed their heritage.

 

I've just been reading the GWR Locomotive committee minutes. 

 

Breaking up North Star and Lord of the Isles was a decision at Director level, albeit at Churchward's recommendation, and was only done after spending two and a half years trying to find an organisation to give them away to.

 

http://www.devboats.co.uk/gwdrawings/northstarmyth.php

[009 micro modeller]

GWR broad gauge "Lord of the Isles" and "North Star". Some bits of other broad gauge locos survived as stationary engines well into the 20th century too. But I'd rather model the period when they were working, rather than in preservation, although it would be tempting to model a preserved railway converted back to broad gauge!

Now there's an interesting idea. Given the way that some narrow gauge lines are being restored with a lot of new or replica stock (something I approve of even if it isn't preservation in the traditional sense) could a similar approach work for broad gauge? Are there any suitable stretches of trackbed left?

[Londontram]

Wasn't the 0-10-0 licky banker ond one of the Pioneer diesels No. 10000 earmarked at one time but fell through

[rodent279]

GWR broad gauge "Lord of the Isles" and "North Star". Some bits of other broad gauge locos survived as stationary engines well into the 20th century too. But I'd rather model the period when they were working, rather than in preservation, although it would be tempting to model a preserved railway converted back to broad gauge!

It would be rather nice to have a full length preserved railway converted to broad gauge, or at least mixed gauge!

[great central]

Wasn't the 0-10-0 licky banker ond one of the Pioneer diesels No. 10000 earmarked at one time but fell through

I recall reading somewhere, something gives me the idea it was a list in an Ian Allen 'combine' that there were plans to preserve a lot more locos than actually happened?

Amongst others I'm sure 61000 Springbok was mentioned, interestingly around that time it was allocated to Colwick, presumably working out it's last days, often being seen on trip workings.

[TravisM]

Wasn't the 0-10-0 licky banker ond one of the Pioneer diesels No. 10000 earmarked at one time but fell through

 

10000 was offered to the fledgling national railway museum collection but rejected as they were concentrating on steam.  The Lickey banker was put aside for preservation but later scraped though it's rumoured a cylinder was saved but since disappeared, so I think that's urban myth.

[rodent279]

The Lickey banker was put aside for preservation but later scraped though it's rumoured a cylinder was saved but since disappeared, so I think that's urban myth.

Now that would be an interesting "Phoenix" project!

Edited April 20, 2018 by rodent279

[009 micro modeller]

Now that would be an interesting "Phoenix" project!

And of course if it used an original cylinder it could be classed as a 'rebuild'.

[tomparryharry]

Now there's an interesting idea. Given the way that some narrow gauge lines are being restored with a lot of new or replica stock (something I approve of even if it isn't preservation in the traditional sense) could a similar approach work for broad gauge? Are there any suitable stretches of trackbed left?

Off the top of my head, it would be the South Devon Railway, and the Gwili Railway, Camarthen.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

Edited April 20, 2018 by tomparryharry

[009 micro modeller]

Off the top of my head, it would be the South Devon Railway, and the Gwili Railway, Camarthen.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

I was thinking more of sites that were once broad gauge and would now be available, not necessarily existing heritage lines.