Hornby's financial updates to the Stock Market

[jjb1970]

Only if they earn money on each box (or at least more of them than those they lose money on). When I worked in the retail world (shudders) I always used to have problems explaining to my boss that standing OUTSIDE the shop to sell loss leading special offers defeats the object of having them! My ‘career’ ended shortly after I suggested that I might just as well stand out there throwing money at passing customers. Funnily enough HIS career ended less than a month after mine when the branch went bust.[/size]

I think I've said this before, but I used to have a colleague in power generation who was a degree qualified chartered engineer managing major projects (we're talking telephone number budgets) who swore blind that the toughest, most stressful job he ever had by far was a stint as working for Sainsburys in their graduate store manager scheme. He left pretty quickly and is adamant nothing he's ever done since (including work in nuclear and defence) has been anything like as demanding.

[DonnyRailMan]

That is what Hornby need reps like Mr Cooke getting around the towns and talking to the model shop owners so they can

get feedback . I am sure if they did that the same sort of notes  would be coming from the model shop owners telling what

people where buying / wanted from Hornby.  

[Dunsignalling]

Over the last year I reckon that for every £1 I spent on a model train in a blue box, I've spent £10 on ones in red boxes, so I like to think I've done my bit to restore Hornby to profitability.

For me, as a Southern fan, that's been the case most years, certainly in this century.

 

Now I don't need any more BR Standards or Diesels, nearly everything I buy in a blue box will be a wagon.

 

John

[sp1]

That is what Hornby need reps like Mr Cooke getting around the towns and talking to the model shop owners so they can

get feedback . I am sure if they did that the same sort of notes would be coming from the model shop owners telling what

people where buying / wanted from Hornby.

Well I hope that someone from Hornby visits my local model shop soon. Stocks are noticeably running down since they stopped dealing with Hornby about 12 months ago, and the staff that were there until a few months ago have disappeared. I fear the worst.....

[Deltic]

There has been a communication to Hornby retailers, setting out various changes to come - as of later this month. It is hoped that Hornby has listened to the smaller retailers, as if more decide to ditch the Brand it could lead to larger outlets deciding to also follow suit. For those readers who may suggest that would never happen - consider the past, a certain brand lost its way with the smaller outlets and vanished almost overnight when others pulled the plug too.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Deltic

[Hroth]

Well I hope that someone from Hornby visits my local model shop soon. Stocks are noticeably running down since they stopped dealing with Hornby about 12 months ago, and the staff that were there until a few months ago have disappeared. I fear the worst.....

I know a model shop like that, their once vast Hornby stock is vanishingly low and they seem to be relying on other modelling areas (ie NOT model railways) more and more.

[Mike at C&M]

There has been a communication to Hornby retailers, setting out various changes to come - as of later this month. It is hoped that Hornby has listened to the smaller retailers, as if more decide to ditch the Brand it could lead to larger outlets deciding to also follow suit. For those readers who may suggest that would never happen - consider the past, a certain brand lost its way with the smaller outlets and vanished almost overnight when others pulled the plug too.

Although many of we retailers only received the letter and revised terms of trade yesterday, there has already been plenty of discussion between many of us over the weekend about the implications of the changes we are being asked to sign up to. For some, what is proposed makes very uncomfortable reading, and there are several points requiring clarification from Hornby before we will consider whether or not we are willing, or can afford, to sign up.

Edited October 2, 2016 by 87029

[DonnyRailMan]

Yes Hornby need to look after the small retailer we have lost too many over the years. And when you get a big chain

buying up small retailers and then going bust it dose not help all the shops gone apart from a few may have re-open. .

I hope Hornby come up with a good deal for the small retailer and NOT just for Hornby.

[Fireline]

There has been a communication to Hornby retailers, setting out various changes to come - as of later this month. It is hoped that Hornby has listened to the smaller retailers, as if more decide to ditch the Brand it could lead to larger outlets deciding to also follow suit. For those readers who may suggest that would never happen - consider the past, a certain brand lost its way with the smaller outlets and vanished almost overnight when others pulled the plug too.

 

I rather suspect that if they have stopped dealing with Hornby, they won't be getting a visit. This first effort seems to be to contact existing customers first.

[Adams442T]

Although many of we retailers only received the letter and revised terms of trade yesterday, there has already been plenty of discussion between many of us over the weekend about the implications of the changes we are being asked to sign up to. For some, what is proposed makes very uncomfortable reading, and there are several points requiring clarification from Hornby before we will consider whether or not we are willing, or can afford, to sign up.

It seems to me that Hornby are, again, wanting to have their cake and eat it too.  They apply somewhat draconian measures to shops (sorry, retail opportunity outlets) and are then seemingly surprised when said shops decide they don't want to play.  Are they just aiming for an online presence, and large 'box-shifters' to move their product?

 

If that's so I would warn them that when I worked for Britains in the late 90's they did exactly that, and ended up being sold off, not once, but twice and their presence in the model figure world has dwindled now to almost nothing.  I'm just back from the Chicago Show where Britains formerly had a row of about 10 full sized tables displaying product, and they now have one small stand, and they've gone from a large room with dioramas displaying their latest products to a small room with desultory items spread about to give the impression of progress.   

 

I've always supported Hornby, particularly when they get things right, Adams Radial, Hunslett, LSWR coaches, etc. but don't think they couldn't disappear.........in my experience they could do just that, and sooner than we might think.

[Crantock]

On a wander round the trade at Wigan Exhibition on a Sunday, I felt that Blue boxes were thin on the ground and Reds predominated.  That's all small traders.

[Monkey28]

I hope the new terms of trade are not bad for retailers Hornby need them as much as the end as the end customers . 

 

we had all this a few years ago Hornby wanting everyone to buy from there website .

Edited October 3, 2016 by Monkey28

[Monkey28]

On a wander round the trade at Wigan Exhibition on a Sunday, I felt that Blue boxes were thin on the ground and Reds predominated.  That's all small traders.

yes theres not many blue boxes about .but Hornby need to support the trade and the customer . 

 

what 87029 says that what is proposed makes very uncomfortable reading doesn't sound good.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Monkey28

[caradoc]

On a wander round the trade at Wigan Exhibition on a Sunday, I felt that Blue boxes were thin on the ground and Reds predominated.  That's all small traders.

 

Might that just mean that Blue boxes are selling well and Red boxes are not.....There are certainly still a lot of Red box bargains on Hattons website.

[Mike at C&M]

Today we were given the price lists which come into effect from Monday 10th October (next week). You are warned that there are some large increases in RRP on their way. Bachmann no longer stand alone on this front.

 

Changes to percentage margins, and a request for a low ceiling on the amount of discount we can offer mean that there is likely to be a large reduction in the amount of bargain prices around. Also, many of the basics across all the Hornby ranges where we have enjoyed a better margin in the past few years, have been brought into line, so increases will result here too, across the board.

 

The changes ahead are as a result of revised terms by Hornby, and are not the result of decisions taken by retailers. So please do not direct any negative thoughts on this to your retailer - this is beyond our control. Thank you.

[Mike at C&M]

There are certainly still a lot of Red box bargains on Hattons website.

The result of a Hornby clear-out of mammoth proportions. Don't mention this within earshot of any other retailer!

[RJS1977]

Today we were given the price lists which come into effect from Monday 10th October (next week). You are warned that there are some large increases in RRP on their way. Bachmann no longer stand alone on this front.

 

 

Pretty much inevitable though given the fall in the pound this year - one of the downsides of overseas production.

[Fireline]

Today we were given the price lists which come into effect from Monday 10th October (next week). You are warned that there are some large increases in RRP on their way. Bachmann no longer stand alone on this front.

 

Changes to percentage margins, and a request for a low ceiling on the amount of discount we can offer mean that there is likely to be a large reduction in the amount of bargain prices around. Also, many of the basics across all the Hornby ranges where we have enjoyed a better margin in the past few years, have been brought into line, so increases will result here too, across the board.

 

The changes ahead are as a result of revised terms by Hornby, and are not the result of decisions taken by retailers. So please do not direct any negative thoughts on this to your retailer - this is beyond our control. Thank you.

 

I thought that the ceiling on discount was only for a short period of time? If I recall correctly, Bachmann have been doing this for some time, hence even H****ns had to put their prices up. I don't think we can demonise one company for going where others have already gone....

[Bernard Lamb]

I thought that the ceiling on discount was only for a short period of time? If I recall correctly, Bachmann have been doing this for some time, hence even H****ns had to put their prices up. I don't think we can demonise one company for going where others have already gone...

Hornby seem to be so desperate for cash that they are selling of surplus stock not long after the product has been introduced. For how many weeks did the K1 remain at full price?

Bachmann do seem to be trying to hold prices at a certain level for a certain period.

At least with that policy a dealer knows where he stands.

Asking for a level playing field can hardly be called demonizing.

Bernard

[Wicor Models]

Today we were given the price lists which come into effect from Monday 10th October (next week). You are warned that there are some large increases in RRP on their way. Bachmann no longer stand alone on this front.

 

Changes to percentage margins, and a request for a low ceiling on the amount of discount we can offer mean that there is likely to be a large reduction in the amount of bargain prices around. Also, many of the basics across all the Hornby ranges where we have enjoyed a better margin in the past few years, have been brought into line, so increases will result here too, across the board.

 

The changes ahead are as a result of revised terms by Hornby, and are not the result of decisions taken by retailers. So please do not direct any negative thoughts on this to your retailer - this is beyond our control. Thank you.

Having looked through the new prices I am grateful that the increases are as low as they are, around 12 to 15%, the camera trade has endured 25% and more on their prices.  It still brings Hornby prices in below some of Bachmann's so while none us wanted this we should not be surprised after the referendum vote this year and the dramatic fall in the pound against the dollar.  I have just seen some of Trumpeter's prices for their plastic kits and the make Tamiya look cheap so this, I'm afraid, is the new order.

[coachmann]

Customers shouldn't be bothering their heads about politics. The best thing they can do is continue putting money in Hornby's pocket. While typing this I am looking at two Railroad GWR Hall locos. I have replaced moulded handrails, smokebox dart and chimney and painted & lined both, but that apart, Hornby has ensured that both locos have different small detail correct for the locos they were modelling........ And these are Railroad models!  I would go so far as to say one cannot beat Hornby for minute detail.

 

It is worth remembering that Bachmann does not go to this trouble. Their GWR Small Prairie with larger side tanks merely uses the original small tank running plate so the detail is wrong, a case of one thing suits all. The same occurred with the GWR Hall and we ended up with a compromised 'Modified Hall' and an old chassis with a half-baked attempt to make it DCC Ready. The Ivatt 2-6-2T is the latest compromise with old body and lousy boiler fittings. On the flip side, Bachmann's GWR 56XX, Dukedog and Ivatt Cl.2 2-6-0 are excellent, to Hornby standard in fact.

 

I take steps to modify models where they are wrong, but most people cannot or will not do this. If you are one of the latter, you better hope Hornby survives. So go out today and buy a red box!  

Edited October 4, 2016 by coachmann

[GordonC]

On a wander round the trade at Wigan Exhibition on a Sunday, I felt that Blue boxes were thin on the ground and Reds predominated.  That's all small traders.

 

There was a lot of both on the Saturday so perhaps a fair amount of blue boxes were sold

[Hroth]

Today we were given the price lists which come into effect from Monday 10th October (next week). You are warned that there are some large increases in RRP on their way. Bachmann no longer stand alone on this front.

 

Changes to percentage margins, and a request for a low ceiling on the amount of discount we can offer mean that there is likely to be a large reduction in the amount of bargain prices around. Also, many of the basics across all the Hornby ranges where we have enjoyed a better margin in the past few years, have been brought into line, so increases will result here too, across the board.

 

The changes ahead are as a result of revised terms by Hornby, and are not the result of decisions taken by retailers. So please do not direct any negative thoughts on this to your retailer - this is beyond our control. Thank you.

The problem is that all of us, as consumers, are battered on all sides by rising prices and static incomes (and I'm not just talking about those on pensions).  I can appreciate that things like Brexit induced drops in the Pound, rises in oil prices, transport and production costs in general mean that Hornby has to look at what it charges the retailer to stock items and thus the customer has to shoulder the burden too.

 

But it gets to the point when the amount of disposable income is so small that the cost of buying X, Y and Z becomes impossible; X (and perhaps Y) may have to be put off.  That X and Y might never be produced again, particularly in a desired livery, only twists the knife. As we look in the shrinking wallet, brushing off the hungry moths, we are reminded that the sages of old declared "You can't get a quart out of a pint pot".

 

No matter how we want to buy things, especially Hornby things, it can't all be done.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Hornby are in luck.  I had three items on pre-order, two Hornby that might appear around Christmas-tide and another that was slated for nowish. The other has now moved to the same time-slot as the Hornby models and given the time of year, I can't support three new locos in a month, so reluctantly I've had to cancel the other pre-order.  WIth luck, into the New Year I may be able to look at that other loco again, if there are any left.

[BG John]

The problem is that all of us, as consumers, are battered on all sides by rising prices and static incomes (and I'm not just talking about those on pensions).  I can appreciate that things like Brexit induced drops in the Pound, rises in oil prices, transport and production costs in general mean that Hornby has to look at what it charges the retailer to stock items and thus the customer has to shoulder the burden too.

 

But it gets to the point when the amount of disposable income is so small that the cost of buying X, Y and Z becomes impossible; X (and perhaps Y) may have to be put off.  That X and Y might never be produced again, particularly in a desired livery, only twists the knife. As we look in the shrinking wallet, brushing off the hungry moths, we are reminded that the sages of old declared "You can't get a quart out of a pint pot".

 

No matter how we want to buy things, especially Hornby things, it can't all be done.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Hornby are in luck.  I had three items on pre-order, two Hornby that might appear around Christmas-tide and another that was slated for nowish. The other has now moved to the same time-slot as the Hornby models and given the time of year, I can't support three new locos in a month, so reluctantly I've had to cancel the other pre-order.  WIth luck, into the New Year I may be able to look at that other loco again, if there are any left.

My Hornby purchases in the last year or so have been three used 2721 panniers (two body only) and a used pannier chassis, two Smokey Joes (one new from a train set), all on eBay, and a new wagon bought cheap at an exhibition. Plus a few ancient wrecks for some serious bashing. I now need to start on a serious economy drive, so will have to cut down on extravagant purchases like this! Modern Hornby locos are most likely to be bought when they get to a similar age, as long as they aren't sold at "collectable" prices, I'm afraid. Maybe more extreme than for many others, but unless things change, my spending spree over the last couple of years was a one off to get me back into the hobby.

[Black 5 Bear]

I wonder whether Hornby will now take the opportunity of addressing the problem with the oversupply of certain models in the range, such as the K1 and the B17. As superb as these model are, they don't seem to sell that well following the initial release....