Hornby's financial updates to the Stock Market

[Mike Storey]

Interesting that the Hornby Junior big adverts show Toys'R'Us as a key retailer (whether their Chapter 11 causes their UK demise or not). I do not recall seeing any Hornby in their shops for years, Looks like their marketing/sales technique is improving, allied to a product which really suits TRU.

[Gerald Henriksen]

Interesting that the Hornby Junior big adverts show Toys'R'Us as a key retailer (whether their Chapter 11 causes their UK demise or not). I do not recall seeing any Hornby in their shops for years, Looks like their marketing/sales technique is improving, allied to a product which really suits TRU.

 

Stores outside of the US and Canada are not part of the bankrupcty process, which is mainly a way to try and deal with the excessive debt created by the leveraged buy out orchestrated 10 or so years ago.

 

Not related to Hornby at all, but for those interested an article on why the big toy companies (Mattel, Hasbro) won't / can't allow Toys'R'Us to go under:

 

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/7570734-toys-r-us-lives-on-because-mattel-can-t-let-it-die/

[jjb1970]

Our local TUS tends to stock a small number of Hornby trainsets, but not accessories or anything else. So even if you buy a trainset there you'll have to go somewhere else for anything else you want. Similarly they stock a small selection of Airfix kits but no paints, adhesives or tools.

Hobby craft sell a good selection of Airfix, Revell and Tamiya kits and an excellent range of paints, tools, adhesives etc but very little Hornby. In some ways Hobby craft would seem a better candidate than TUS if Hornby want to get their products into a well known shop with a physical presence as they do offer most of the things you need to turn a transept into a hobby including some excellent scenic materials.

Edited September 23, 2017 by jjb1970

[Fenman]

Our local TUS tends to stock a small number of Hornby trainers, but not accessories or anything else. So even if you buy a transept there you'll have to go somewhere else for anything else you want. ... [emphasis added]

 

Took me longer than it should to work out what "TUS" meant (surely it should be "TRUs"?), but then the thought of buying some church architecture there really confused me. I obviously need more sleep.

 

Paul

[Coryton]

Took me longer than it should to work out what "TUS" meant (surely it should be "TRUs"?), but then the thought of buying some church architecture there really confused me. I obviously need more sleep.

 

Paul

 

The wonders of spelling checkers?

 

I once had a version of Word that silently changed "pipework" to "paperwork" which nearly meant a code of practise I was writing come out a bit oddly.

[The Johnster]

Our local TUS tends to stock a small number of Hornby trainsets, but not accessories or anything else. So even if you buy a trainset there you'll have to go somewhere else for anything else you want. Similarly they stock a small selection of Airfix kits but no paints, adhesives or tools.

Hobby craft sell a good selection of Airfix, Revell and Tamiya kits and an excellent range of paints, tools, adhesives etc but very little Hornby. In some ways Hobby craft would seem a better candidate than TUS if Hornby want to get their products into a well known shop with a physical presence as they do offer most of the things you need to turn a transept into a hobby including some excellent scenic materials.

 

 

Agreed.  A visit to Hobbycraft usually has me coming out with stuff I didn't know I needed when I went in!

[Coryton]

Agreed.  A visit to Hobbycraft usually has me coming out with stuff I didn't know I needed when I went in!

 

And the fact the the chain exists suggests there's quite a few people around who still do "real things" rather than spend their life on their phone/tablet/computer.

[Caledonian]

And the fact the the chain exists suggests there's quite a few people around who still do "real things" rather than spend their life on their phone/tablet/computer.

 

Oh yes indeedee, but are Hornby trying to target them rather that hoping the christmas train set will still do the trick many years down the line?

[The Stationmaster]

Our local TUS tends to stock a small number of Hornby trainsets, but not accessories or anything else. So even if you buy a trainset there you'll have to go somewhere else for anything else you want. Similarly they stock a small selection of Airfix kits but no paints, adhesives or tools.

Hobby craft sell a good selection of Airfix, Revell and Tamiya kits and an excellent range of paints, tools, adhesives etc but very little Hornby. In some ways Hobby craft would seem a better candidate than TUS if Hornby want to get their products into a well known shop with a physical presence as they do offer most of the things you need to turn a transept into a hobby including some excellent scenic materials.

 

But on the opposite hand the Reading branch of Hobbycraft drastically reduced the range of Hornby it had on offer several years ago  (which is a shame as they were very clever at reducing some prices to a ludicrously low level on lines that didn't sell)

[Gerald Henriksen]

Oh yes indeedee, but are Hornby trying to target them rather that hoping the christmas train set will still do the trick many years down the line?

 

But remember retail is a two way street - what Hornby may want can only be part of the issue if the retailer in question doesn't want to stock Hornby and/or model trains.

 

Just to point out we don't know what has happened, and before jumping on Hornby at least acknowledge while Hornby may be the issue it is also possible the issue is Hobbycraft.

[sp1]

But remember retail is a two way street - what Hornby may want can only be part of the issue if the retailer in question doesn't want to stock Hornby and/or model trains.

 

Just to point out we don't know what has happened, and before jumping on Hornby at least acknowledge while Hornby may be the issue it is also possible the issue is Hobbycraft.

There seem to be some Hornby train sets on eBay at the moment from major retailers- just ordered a Thomas set from a large retailer in London: grandsons Christmas present. Whoopee!

[adb968008]

But on the opposite hand the Reading branch of Hobbycraft drastically reduced the range of Hornby it had on offer several years ago  (which is a shame as they were very clever at reducing some prices to a ludicrously low level on lines that didn't sell)

I'm speculating, but perhaps the second part of your statement,could explain the actions for the first half of your statement.

[jjb1970]

Hobbycraft reduced their Hornby range at their MK branch too. They used to have a bit of rolling stock, sell a wide range of track and a pretty decent selection of Hornby scenic accessories. Now they have trainsets at Christmas and a few smaller items but it is very limited. The fact that they still sell a pretty wide range of plastic kits from three manufacturers (including some very pricey high end kits) indicates that they're willing to stock models if the market is there to buy them. So yes, I think that in their case it probably does say more about demand for model trains. However, they sell Woodland Scenics and a wide range of other stuff to help you build a layout.

Hobby Craft do demonstrate that traditional hobbies are far from dead. My wife goes there a lot as she is into sugar craft and cross stitch and I often end up with a plastic kit when I visit. The MK branch always seems to be busy enough, although the model section is a very small part of a large store and most of their business is in things like drawing and art supplies, needle craft, sugar craft etc.

[Caledonian]

But remember retail is a two way street - what Hornby may want can only be part of the issue if the retailer in question doesn't want to stock Hornby and/or model trains.

 

Just to point out we don't know what has happened, and before jumping on Hornby at least acknowledge while Hornby may be the issue it is also possible the issue is Hobbycraft.

 

You misunderstand me. I was responding to Coryton's point that there are people out there who want to come in from the cold and make things with their hands rather than their thumbs and the Hornby might do better to target them rather than the junior end of the toy market.

[Mike Storey]

Our local TUS tends to stock a small number of Hornby trainsets, but not accessories or anything else. So even if you buy a trainset there you'll have to go somewhere else for anything else you want. Similarly they stock a small selection of Airfix kits but no paints, adhesives or tools.

Hobby craft sell a good selection of Airfix, Revell and Tamiya kits and an excellent range of paints, tools, adhesives etc but very little Hornby. In some ways Hobby craft would seem a better candidate than TUS if Hornby want to get their products into a well known shop with a physical presence as they do offer most of the things you need to turn a transept into a hobby including some excellent scenic materials.

 

The Hobby Craft at West World (? or similar) shopping centre in Thanet (says Broadstairs, but that is a stretch, it is between Ramsgate and Margate) wot I woz in last week, on a cross-channel raiding party, still had a fair range of Hornby, with some locos, rolling stock, track and accessories, but right at the back on the upper floor. I felt like Father Ted trying to find it amongst the cross-stitch......

[Mike Storey]

Stores outside of the US and Canada are not part of the bankrupcty process, which is mainly a way to try and deal with the excessive debt created by the leveraged buy out orchestrated 10 or so years ago.

 

Not related to Hornby at all, but for those interested an article on why the big toy companies (Mattel, Hasbro) won't / can't allow Toys'R'Us to go under:

 

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/7570734-toys-r-us-lives-on-because-mattel-can-t-let-it-die/

 

Very interesting link - thank you - it explains a great deal about their pricing strategy and target markets driven by the supply chains. When you look at the $ numbers involved, especially debt and EBIT, it puts Hornby's problems into much greater perspective! Far and little come to mind. Too much F.Ted? Sorry.

[Andy Hayter]

Stores outside of the US and Canada are not part of the bankrupcty process, which is mainly a way to try and deal with the excessive debt created by the leveraged buy out orchestrated 10 or so years ago.

 

Not related to Hornby at all, but for those interested an article on why the big toy companies (Mattel, Hasbro) won't / can't allow Toys'R'Us to go under:

 

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/7570734-toys-r-us-lives-on-because-mattel-can-t-let-it-die/

 

 

 

You are right Gerald but at the same time wrong.

 

Strictly and legally it is only the US and Canadian companies that are under chapter 11 protection.  However what happens is that suppliers to the group as a whole get cold feet.  If the parents do go into liquidation (which is several steps further on from Chapter 11), then the whole group can fail and so suppliers elsewhere have to take a view - risk that the Chapter 11 will work out and the companies come out of their financial difficulties, or take financial precautions which may be walk away, demand cash before delivery of goods or services, reduce payment terms (from say 90 to 30 days) etc..  All of this can put extra financial pressures on the supposedly non-affected parts of the company.  [i write this as someone who worked for a European company whose US arm filed for Chapter 11 protection.]

 

If Hasbro and Mattel need TRU as much as they need them then that really is to the good of the group as a whole.  Supplies from these companies to European TRU outfits are likely to continue unabated.  Other suppliers may however take fright - and I would not necessarily discount Hornby being one of them.    

Edited September 23, 2017 by Andy Hayter

[rembrow]

Have been to my local model shop today, a Hornby retailer and service agent, which I've shopped in since 1984. The owner told me he'd had a sheaf of documents from Hornby which covers a)changes to the retail trader terms and conditions with Hornby and 2) revised retail prices which come into effect in a weeks time. He could not tell yet if rxisting orders made were price ring fenced.

[Mike at C&M]

Have been to my local model shop today, a Hornby retailer and service agent, which I've shopped in since 1984. The owner told me he'd had a sheaf of documents from Hornby which covers a)changes to the retail trader terms and conditions with Hornby and 2) revised retail prices which come into effect in a weeks time. He could not tell yet if rxisting orders made were price ring fenced.

From the release sent to us by Hornby:

 

All open orders you have placed with us will be honoured at the current pricing. You do not need to take any further action as they will be despatched when the stock becomes available.

 

 

It would seem reasonable that your pre-order will have the price ring-fenced. Ask your local model shop to confirm this.

 

The change in terms and conditions seems to relate to warranty repairs, and how we retailers now need to handle them. Unless I have missed something.

[Andy Y]

My understanding is that all existing orders and those made up to the 6th October by stockists with Hornby will be at the current price and orders made from the 9th October will be at the new prices.

 

Most increases are 0-5% but there are some much larger ones. If you want Sentinels, Q1s, J94s or Terriers it may be worth ordering sooner rather than later.

[phil gollin]

.

 

Why increase the price of Terriers with the P's coming along ?  That's weird.  I know that the Terriers were more numerous and useful in real life, but the P's will compete on the "small, cute Southern loco" front.

 

.

[Legend]

.

 

Why increase the price of Terriers with the P's coming along ? That's weird. I know that the Terriers were more numerous and useful in real life, but the P's will compete on the "small, cute Southern loco" front.

 

.

It's probably more to do with which contractor manufactures them for Hornby and how they are produced rather than terriers competing with Ps. Edited September 28, 2017 by Legend

[phil-b259]

Too much F.Ted? Sorry.

From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Christmassy_Ted

 

"While Christmas shopping, Ted and Dougal accidentally wander into what turns out to be the largest lingerie section in Ireland, prompting Ted to worry that there will be a scandal if they are discovered. As they try to find the exit, they run into six other priests, and Ted ultimately leads their escape in an unusually heroic fashion, after using the speaker system to tell women at the exit the store is about to close"

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=beN7FftWNCM

[Gilbert]

You can never have too much FTed - we've had far too little sadly...

You can never have too much FTed - we've had far too little sadly...

Sorry...a bit off topic....

[Monkey28]

From the release sent to us by Hornby:

 

All open orders you have placed with us will be honoured at the current pricing. You do not need to take any further action as they will be despatched when the stock becomes available.

 

 

 

It would seem reasonable that your pre-order will have the price ring-fenced. Ask your local model shop to confirm this.

 

The change in terms and conditions seems to relate to warranty repairs, and how we retailers now need to handle them. Unless I have missed something.

Can you tell us more about the warranty repairs conditions?