Standard 3 2-6-0 using standard 4 chassis? Is it feasible?

[JSpencer]

Regarding the following quote about the Bachmann 4MT, which I assume to be about the Std 4 2-6-0I have to disagree completely about this.I've got 2 Std 4 2-6-0s, both DCC ready. One I've fitted a ZTC258 decoder to, which is the direct plug in 8 pin decoder with the 8 pins on the underside, so no wires. The other has the much bigger Lenz Standard+ fitted. This slots into the front of the smokebox and has an 8 pin plug on the end of wires. I havn't had to remove any weights to do this. There are loads of decoders much smaller than a Lenz Standard (quite a big decoder) which would therefore fit. I used the 2 different makes in the same loco type for comparison purposes.

Fair enough. But others have experienced this http://www.bromsgrovemodels.co.uk/bachmann4mtdccinstr.htm

[Clive Mortimore]

I know it is a long time since this topic last had a post but to answer the original question  "Standard 3 2-6-0 using standard 4 chassis? Is it feasible?"

 

Yes

 

 

I have done a bit more on her since taking these photos.

[Mad McCann]

44 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I know it is a long time since this topic last had a post but to answer the original question  "Standard 3 2-6-0 using standard 4 chassis? Is it feasible?"

 

Yes

 

 

I have done a bit more on her since taking these photos.

I think you've proved the hypothesis quite ably, Clive.

 

Davy.

[DCB]

I will be interested  to see how it looks in black ,   The  real thing looks very anorexic around the boiler region ,  Both std 4 and std 3  2-6-0 are the same height above rail level, the lower boiler centre line and the smaller diameter smokebox is compensated for by the longer chimney. The smokebox in particular looks very minimalistic with the door very nearly the same diameter as the smokebox.   Presumably it was a standard GWR Smokebox door as used on just about everything with a std  1/2/3/4/ 10 etc boiler

[No Decorum]

The pool of unmodelled steam locomotives is almost limitless but there were only twelve BR Standards (although there were quite a few non-standard variations). Here is a gap which could be filled by a helpful RTR manufacturer. It’s an interesting machine in its own right for the reasons given above even though many people have said that the prototype shouldn’t have been built because it turned out that there was no need for it.

[Clive Mortimore]

12 hours ago, DCB said:

I will be interested  to see how it looks in black ,   The  real thing looks very anorexic around the boiler region ,  Both std 4 and std 3  2-6-0 are the same height above rail level, the lower boiler centre line and the smaller diameter smokebox is compensated for by the longer chimney. The smokebox in particular looks very minimalistic with the door very nearly the same diameter as the smokebox.   Presumably it was a standard GWR Smokebox door as used on just about everything with a std  1/2/3/4/ 10 etc boiler

This is the loco I am modelling.

 

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, No Decorum said:

The pool of unmodelled steam locomotives is almost limitless but there were only twelve BR Standards (although there were quite a few non-standard variations). Here is a gap which could be filled by a helpful RTR manufacturer. It’s an interesting machine in its own right for the reasons given above even though many people have said that the prototype shouldn’t have been built because it turned out that there was no need for it.

One for KR Models perhaps, they could do it in a bunch of looney tunes liveries too.

[Mad McCann]

All you need to do is mention to Southern Modellers that one finished it's days there.

Job done... 😉

 

Davy.

[adb968008]

6 minutes ago, Mad McCann said:

All you need to do is mention to Southern Modellers that one finished it's days there.

Job done... 😉

 

Davy.

And dont forget they were mostly NE region, thats the two biggest check boxes to getting a model made.

 

[adb968008]

Interesting comparison here..

 

Flickr url, taken before my time on earth.

Edited October 22, 2023 by adb968008

[Wheatley]

12 hours ago, No Decorum said:

The pool of unmodelled steam locomotives is almost limitless but there were only twelve BR Standards (although there were quite a few non-standard variations). Here is a gap which could be filled by a helpful RTR manufacturer. It’s an interesting machine in its own right for the reasons given above even though many people have said that the prototype shouldn’t have been built because it turned out that there was no need for it.

I expect most people thought Bachmann would do it after the LMS Ivatt 4MT and the BR Std 4MT,  it was a no-brainer. But then I expect most of us thought they'd do the BR Std 2MT after the Ivatt 2MT as well, not be pipped to the post by Hornby a mere 15 years later !

Edited October 22, 2023 by Wheatley

[The Black Hat]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

And dont forget they were mostly NE region, thats the two biggest check boxes to getting a model made.

 

If only that were true....

[adb968008]

I am intrigued at why 77014 even went to the Southern.

 

The popular story is a railtour, but lets look at that..

 

left the NE 1st November 1964 to Northwich, that in itself is a mystery.

observed Crewe works erecting shop 21st March 1965

moved 250 miles to Guildford 2nd April 1966

 

now that railtour..

 

77014 worked 16th April RCTS Longmoor railtour with WD198, WD600, but also Moguls 31411 (withdrawn a week later), and 31639. (Withdrawn 2 months later), both N and U would be extinct by June 1966.

its part in that railtour was Staines Loop to Windsor and Eton riverside… a distance of 7 miles, thats it.

 

Noteably, the near re-run if the 16th April trip, run on the 30th April, 77014 did not feature, its place was instead by 73114 ‘Etarre’.

 

it did manage a few more trips,..

21st May it managed Totton to Bournemouth and to Blandford Forum.

16th October from Broadstone to Blandford, and reverse, plus extras,  with 76026 amongst others.

 

that was it for 1966,

in 1967 on 5th February it ran around London suburbs, from Waterloo and 9th April it did Aldershot to Guildford.

 

so not a lot for a long journey from Manchester and i’d wager the tours from October 66 onwards were due to its acquired celebrity status rather than a plan hatched many months earlier to relocate it south.

 

The SR still had a couple of 82000 3MTs left, Patricroft ended its soiree with 5x 82000 3MTs in November/December 1966.

The southern had a bunch of 76000 and were slowly withdrawing them between 1964 and 1967, indeed 4 were withdrawn at Eastleigh in September 1966.

Between those two classes maintaining it must have been fairly “standard”, and spares easy to find.

 

77014’s jollies weren't without precedent, for example. 30073 moved from Southampton to work a 4 mile gig between Tooting and Wimbledon on the 9th October 1966, but who / how would someone pick 77014 do this journey… there was still plenty of exotic traction in 1966 that could have gone south to a place less frequented by that class (a B1 for example).

But the only thing I can think of was they choose to keep it around because it wasnt wanted back north and the last N and Us were gone and so this made it an easy to maintain 2-6-0 to keep ?

They certainly used it, whilst its last day was Bournemouth, theres photos of it at Alton, Corfe Mullen and Weymouth too so it got about.

 

But perhaps, could its reason for relocation have been a request for those 3MT 2-6-2Ts in Manchester and instead they sent 77014 ?

But what about 77011.. it was withdrawn probably about the same time 77014 went south, why didnt that go too ?

 

on the same day 77014 ran its tour on April 16th, theres a photo of a decrepit, smokebox rusted, rodless, empty tendered 77011 at Edge Hill dumped… clearly its time was up, and removed from Northwich somewhile earlier than 2nd April, 77014s transfer date.

The 77xxx in the North West was equally unusual, but theres very few pictures of them and its not clear why Northwich (an 8F /WD shed with a few visiting 264Ts and 4Fs) would ever need them.

 

it doesnt make sense moving it 250 miles LE for a 7 mile railtour, and not even appearing on the rerun 2 weeks later, that doesnt suggest it was moved for that, but the demise of 77011 (and the 262Ts) made it clear this was only ever a one way trip.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by adb968008

[Hal Nail]

On 22/10/2023 at 22:01, adb968008 said:

Interesting comparison here..

 

Flickr url, taken before my time on earth.

Oddly, they look less different next to each other than when seen apart!