Baby Deltic Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 No extra wiring back to the panel, the bi-colour LED goes in series with one of the motor wires. By the time you have bought the Seep (and fiddled around for an hour trying to get it set in the right place), the high current operating switch or buttons, the latching relay (because you will have given up trying to get the integrated switch working reliably), the CDU, the big PSU and six colours of wire (some of it fat and expensive) the Seep does not come out quite as cheap as you might think. Each to their own. I find tortoise motors to be too big for my liking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Each to their own. I find tortoise motors to be too big for my liking. Spot on. There is no perfect solution, Just the best for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadway Clive Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 No extra wiring back to the panel, the bi-colour LED goes in series with one of the motor wires. By the time you have bought the Seep (and fiddled around for an hour trying to get it set in the right place), the high current operating switch or buttons, the latching relay (because you will have given up trying to get the integrated switch working reliably), the CDU, the big PSU and six colours of wire (some of it fat and expensive) the Seep does not come out quite as cheap as you might think. How can you possibly find it so difficult to fit a Seep? I've fitted well over a hundred and used them for more than 25 years with very little trouble. Use Evostick to fix in position with the pin through the point tiebar then move the pin back and forth and centralise the motor in position where its moving smoothly - that takes a minute at most. When the glue is set check again, and add fixing screws if you wish (I use to but now question the need). Never needed a latching relay and never found wire expensive. Use old mains wire as a return for long distance if several points operating together. High current buttons? No, just the usual 50p type. I do use the biggest CDUs, just a couple of quid more, so they can set a complete route involving several points, and return everything back to normal afterwards with another button. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimberian Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 Hi Folks, Seems I have caused quite a debate here, apologies! With regards to the why I want to do this in DC when it's not strictly necessary, the simplest answer is .. Because I want to. I like the idea of having a full working control panel, and to me the that includes route indicators, rather than having to peer at the line or see which train moves. The SEEP motor choice was due to a number of good reviews I read and the apparent ease of mounting them under the board. I appreciate there are other options, I will go and have a look at these tortoise ones too, but I suspect I could have put any type of motor in my original post and would have got similar comments! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted March 25, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2016 Hi Folks, Seems I have caused quite a debate here, apologies! That's what it's all about You state your aims and all the different options (AKA entrenched positions) will surface. (me included) Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted March 25, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2016 That's what it's all about You state your aims and all the different options (AKA entrenched positions) will surface. (me included) Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted March 25, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2016 Indeed so, otherwise we'd all buy the same car or mobile phone. We all have different ideas and aims. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted March 25, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2016 I've achieved this on Green Ayre to assist the operators. All my point motors are Tortoise but the main thing is that they are operated by 12v DC. They are switched by DPDT switches. From each switch I run 2 wires (I happen to use black for this in my colour coding). From each switch the wire run to a 2 way chocolate block to and from there the two wires run on to the point motor from the panel. From the same chocolate block I run 2 wires to a small piece of PCB which has two LED's on it and a resistor to step the voltage down (1K ohm). The LED's are p[laced in the track diagram so that the operator knows which route is set. On the fiddle yard you can always see which route is set through the various points. The system has in practice proved to be very reliable and the operators find it helpful. I realise that it doesn't provide actual detection to show that the point has thrown but it works and does what I want it to. If you are interested I can post some photos. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimberian Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 Hi Jamie, I would love to see your photos if possible, sounds like an interesting idea. All the best, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 This is one way to do Tortoise with minimal wiring:- The blue wire is a common that goes to all the Tortoises The orange wires are the single wire to each Tortoise from the control panel The red and green LEDs can be a bi-color or two seperate LEDs on your panel to indicate motor position All the rest of the wiring is on the panel. It can either be fed with 16V AC and the two diodes shown on the left, or from a split rail +-12V DC power supply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted March 26, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2016 Hi Jamie, I would love to see your photos if possible, sounds like an interesting idea. All the best, Paul Hi Paul. As requested here are some photos from a couple of years ago when I was building the main line panel. On this one I use Green LED's to show the main line route and red for the siding/diverging route. Again this is to help operators at shows that may not be very familiar with the panel. A set of greens shows that it's al set for the main line loop. Any red's mean they have to think where they're sending the train. Here's a part of the panel that the operator sees. On this panel the points are operated by a Modratec lever frame so there are no switches on the diagram. They are built into the lever frame and one wire then operated a relay that throws the points. On other panels I've got DPDT switches. Under the panel this is one of the little circuit boards that I built. And this is them from the other side showing the resistor. I hope that this is of some use. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robboxxx Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I found this very helpfull http://www.gaugemaster.com/points_and_panels.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Including their error under the heading 'Installing the LEDs'.... If you are using the pre-wired LEDs from DCC Concepts: Once you have installed the LEDs into the mimic diagram, take the black wire from two LEDs and temporarily attach them together, then extend the wire to one side of your 12 volt power supply. Then connect one of the red wires to the wire from terminal D and the second red LED wire to the wire from terminal E. To complete the circuit connect the wire from terminal E on the motor to the other side of your 12 volt transformer. Should be ---- To complete the circuit connect the wire from terminal F on the motor to the other side of your 12 volt transformer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Solly Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Each to their own. I find tortoise motors to be too big for my liking. Then you could go down the Cobalt path as they are smaller than Tortoise Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 How can you possibly find it so difficult to fit a Seep? I've fitted well over a hundred and used them for more than 25 years with very little trouble. Use Evostick to fix in position with the pin through the point tiebar then move the pin back and forth and centralise the motor in position where its moving smoothly - that takes a minute at most. When the glue is set check again, and add fixing screws if you wish (I use to but now question the need). Never needed a latching relay and never found wire expensive. Use old mains wire as a return for long distance if several points operating together. High current buttons? No, just the usual 50p type. I do use the biggest CDUs, just a couple of quid more, so they can set a complete route involving several points, and return everything back to normal afterwards with another button. I agree with all of that, but just to expand slightly... It is the included switches in a SEEP which people have found unreliable. I have not seen a criticism about the solenoid part of the SEEP. I have used microswitches with SEEPs instead. These cost me about 60p each (so an inexpensive option) but they do need careful alignment. Evo is good for this too because it sticks so quickly. You can always bend the arm a little or stick a slice of plasticard to it if required. You mention cheap switches & CDUs. The CDU allows the use of cheap switches because it virtually eliminates the spark which burns out the switches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Absolutely right, Colin. Moreover on some layouts where you cannot physically see the points, it's very important to be able to check, at a glance, which way they have been set. On my exhibition layout, you cannot see some of the points because of the sheer amount of bridges and buildings. Sending a train the wrong way at a show can be rather embarrassing. & even a train on the next track can make it awkward to confirm that the point has thrown. So when are you going to dig out your layout & complete your route indicators to it then? We both know you can do it without having to think too hard. Maybe we can make a weekend of it? If not, I'll have route indicators on South Hampstead first In that case, maybe a weekend running this will get you motivated? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Then you could go down the Cobalt path as they are smaller than Tortoise No thanks, I'm more than happy with Seep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassman_58 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I've just bought one of these gizmos from MicroMiniatures for the control panel for the layout I am currently working on. It's DC with only 7 turnouts so this should be perfect. Worth trying for the price. http://www.microminiatures.co.uk/acatalog/Model-Rail-Points-Position-Indicator.htm Will see how it works! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassman_58 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 I've just bought one of these gizmos from MicroMiniatures for the control panel for the layout I am currently working on. It's DC with only 7 turnouts so this should be perfect. Worth trying for the price. http://www.microminiatures.co.uk/acatalog/Model-Rail-Points-Position-Indicator.htm Will see how it works! Hi all Here are some photos of my completed control panel. It is probably over the top for my layout but I had fun building it and it works great so surely that is what this hobby is all about! Obviously all the LEDs wouldn't be on during normal operation, only the current point settings and the power LEDs for the selected route. The 3 LEDs on the right are under the control of the fiddle-yard operator to indicate that a train is in position ready to come on-scene. The fiddle yard itself is a sliding plate that has two fixed rails and 3 cassette slots. As I say, some may think this is overcomplicated but it makes operation fun, like the fact there is no run-round loop in the platform bay making that operation more complex (and prototypical in some locations eg. Chard Town on which the trackplan is based). The dashed line on the panel indicates the baseboard join. Oh yes... the MicroMiniatures gizmo for indicating which way the points are currently set works a treat and simple to wire-up (as long as you are sent the correct wiring diagram with it). I would show you the inside of the panel but I try not to take the panel off unless I have to for fear of disturbing the wiring - particularly when it is all working well at the moment!!! Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Will your tracks be live all the time or only live when the point so makes it. If selective live and DCC (i.e. constant track power) then just wire bi-colour leds across the junction like this http://myweb.cytanet.com.cy/honnor/wpimages/wp20efb50e_06.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassman_58 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Will your tracks be live all the time or only live when the point so makes it. If selective live and DCC (i.e. constant track power) then just wire bi-colour leds across the junction like this http://myweb.cytanet.com.cy/honnor/wpimages/wp20efb50e_06.gif I am not absolutely sure whether your question is for me but, if so, the answer is no. I am still operating on DC and normal operation would be one engine only operating in the terminus and adjacent sidings at any time so DCC would be no great advantage. Yes DCC would allow sound but, having attended exhibitions where adjacent layouts compete to see who can create most noise, I'm still not totally convinced on that score either - plus, as it's location at home is in a shared area, sound is not very practical in the interest of domestic peace! The through line is independent as far as train operation is concerned. As stated, all the lights were on at once only as a test to check that they all worked before connecting the panel to the layout. All the same, I did find your suggestion and wiring diagram very interesting and it added to my knowledge which is always a good thing. Many thanks for your comments. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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