Mazak 'rot' ... arrghhh!

[HornbyA3Fan]

The Lima car either has a steel weight (most likely and which won,t expand) or Mazak weight (which were notorious for expanding) in the centre of the car where it will not affect the end of the car. Has someone tried to remove the power bogie? That would crack it.

Now come to think of it, it does look like been something has been done to the power bogie, and slightly looks out of the place like it's catching on the main body of the power car.

[sandwich station]

Now come to think of it, it does look like been something has been done to the power bogie, and slightly looks out of the place like it's catching on the main body of the power car.

 

Maybe a pic or two might help.

[HornbyA3Fan]

pic

 

EDIT:

 

When shown in the light it's got a steel look to face of the weight. And wondered if Mazak is magnetic?

Edited April 2, 2017 by HornbyA3Fan

[Trainshed Terry]

pic

 

EDIT:

 

When shown in the light it's got a steel look to face of the weight. And wondered if Mazak is magnetic?

 

I think you need to clean that image up as it just fuzzy to me.

[TT3]

Mazak rot has been around along time but seems to me problems appearing much sooner than before. The issue I encounted was with car parts made of cast mazak like door handles, usually chromed, and turning to a white mess and impossible to fix when brittle. Of course said items would usually be 50 years old and subject to all sorts of outdoor conditions. New old stock would also be a problem but sometimes usable. This as good old British mazak so a life of 40 years plus before a bit of rot was OK. However, things crumbling to dust and deforming...very very rare.

[HornbyA3Fan]

pic

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Mazak rot has been around along time but seems to me problems appearing much sooner than before. The issue I encounted was with car parts made of cast mazak like door handles, usually chromed, and turning to a white mess and impossible to fix when brittle. Of course said items would usually be 50 years old and subject to all sorts of outdoor conditions. New old stock would also be a problem but sometimes usable. This as good old British mazak so a life of 40 years plus before a bit of rot was OK. However, things crumbling to dust and deforming...very very rare.

 

Sadly the last metallurgist I knew has succumbed to an Alzheimer spectrum complaint (there's more of this brain rot about than there used to be as well) so unfortunately I no longer have an expert consultant on tap. 

 

I don't know what the current picture is on zinc supply - all of ores, refining and recycling processes - that being the main constituent of Mazak, let alone the alloying components. But it can be surprising what changes to finished materials properties may be caused by any and all of: different ores or ore sources, changes to refining methods, and contaminants introduced by recycling.

 

I once had experience of a very unexpected degradation of an alloy's properties that proved to be due to organic polymer contamination introduced by recycling: which organic material made it through a metal vapour distillation process which should have completely thermally decomposed it. The science proved 'very interesting'. Great life lesson: stuff which 'cannot happen' sometimes does, keep an open mind on causes until all the evidence has been thoroughly examined.

Edited April 2, 2017 by 34theletterbetweenB&D

[adb968008]

That weight isn't Mazak.

It's a std Lima metal weight put into most of their 80/90s range.

 

It's not even secured in the chassis usually it'll lift straight out.

However dropping the model will also cause the weight to shift, and often models which had a clear glazing unit above the weight get a crack from impact, as can the plastic chassis.

Edited April 2, 2017 by adb968008

[TRAILRAGE]

Just been and checked my 9F as it had been suffering with axles locking up under the loco.The chassis is going Banana shaped and there are fractures everywhere where the Brass bearings sit.

Struggled to get the body off but managed to save the body.

Purchased this from a trader called the Model Shop at Doncaster works open day 26/07/03. so just a tad out of warranty!

Same model that Hattons are selling R2248 number 92239 BR Black whethered.

Oh well New powered chassis for it it is. 

 

Cheers Trailrage

[G-BOAF]

Out of warranty yes, but the fact is that the fault existed at the time of manufacture, and as supplied the goods were not fit for purpose. Would there not be a case against Hornby (or actually Sanda Kan (now Kader) as they were doing the manufacturing then...)?

Edited April 5, 2017 by G-BOAF

[Oldddudders]

Out of warranty yes, but the fact is that the fault existed at the time of manufacture, and as supplied the goods were not fit for purpose. Would there not be a case against Hornby (or actually Sanda Kan (now Kader) as they were doing the manufacturing then...)?

Plenty of much more expensive consumer goods pack up in considerably less time. Fridges, microwaves, washing machines etc can all expire after a few years, with no redress. 'Toy trains' as legal sources would view them, hardly merit much concern except to the unlucky owner. I believe Bachmann may have done the honorable thing in respect of at least one model, but their action was discretionary, not statutory, and set no real precedent.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

For this class of goods- toys -  my suspicion is that the UK consumer law requirement is 'fit for purpose' at purchase and for some relatively brief period thereafter, circa 6 months. After that, you are on your own.

 

The manufacturers have generally done the decent thing for faults of this nature, which become apparent within a few years of manufacture. The Bachmann N class footplate casting failures took several years to become evident for example, and Bach supplied replacement parts.

[JSpencer]

pic

 

As said elsewhere, just the normal lump of steel bar sawed off. So someone forced the bogie out.

[JSpencer]

Out of warranty yes, but the fact is that the fault existed at the time of manufacture, and as supplied the goods were not fit for purpose. Would there not be a case against Hornby (or actually Sanda Kan (now Kader) as they were doing the manufacturing then...)?

 

Afirdge is fit for purpose until it goes. If it goes wrong out of warranty then it is the owner to buy a new one. I bet the model was fit for purpose in 2003 but 14 years later, we cannot expect the Hornby to refund/repair it for free.

I have a Bachmann 1st series N class which suffered Mazak rot on the running plate some 10+ years later. Bachmann kindly supplied a running plate free of charge and after a good few hours work, it was swapped over. Still running on the layout today.

 

Had they not have done, surviving parts would have ended up in a Golden Arrows W class tank!

[Dunsignalling]

True it's not worth £50 but a fully working Chinese made tender drive is worth more than a fiver.....

Not to me it ain't.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 For what are relatively cheap manufactures, we do expect to get a lot of life out of them. Most similarly priced consumer goods are cheerfully chucked when they give up, maybe five or six years life is enough for a 'had my money's worth' perception?

 

Afirdge is fit for purpose until it goes. If it goes wrong out of warranty then it is the owner to buy a new one...

 Same applies to aferezers. That was so funny, spent forever getting past 'Afirdge', couldn't work out what it was at all, at all.

[JSpencer]

For what are relatively cheap manufactures, we do expect to get a lot of life out of them. Most similarly priced consumer goods are cheerfully chucked when they give up, maybe five or six years life is enough for a 'had my money's worth' perception?

 

 

 Same applies to aferezers. That was so funny, spent forever getting past 'Afirdge', couldn't work out what it was at all, at all.

I must get some glasses! Starting to look like Ronnie Barker sketch.

[stewartingram]

"Lifetime guarantee" amuses me. It seems like a good buy, if it ever goes wrong it is guaranteed? But what if it is built down to a price, and wears out in say 18 months? That is its expected lifetime, (though never stated anywhere). Where, realistically, is the redress in that situation?

 

Post

[Dunsignalling]

"Lifetime guarantee" amuses me. It seems like a good buy, if it ever goes wrong it is guaranteed? But what if it is built down to a price, and wears out in say 18 months? That is its expected lifetime, (though never stated anywhere). Where, realistically, is the redress in that situation?

 

Post

There's an old joke about a man who bought a watch with a lifetime guarantee. When the mainspring broke, it slashed his wrist............

 

John

[adb968008]

True it's not worth £50 but a fully working Chinese made tender drive is worth more than a fiver.....

Agreed, as and when a bargain class 37/47/pretty much any 6 wheel tender drive Hornby chassis turns up, I've been dual motorising my loco driven Hornby 9f's which when done can pull anything !

Edited April 6, 2017 by adb968008

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

"Lifetime guarantee" amuses me. It seems like a good buy, if it ever goes wrong it is guaranteed? But what if it is built down to a price, and wears out in say 18 months?

Twenty odd years ago during the boom of the nineties, my dear wife came home with a very 'sculptural' kettle bought for what I considered an extravagant price (more than £2 at the time in other words) from a newly opened glammy 'everything for the kitchen' shop. In its favour it was very well constructed, more efficient than the previous kettle, and has an easy clean finish, which meant it still looked good as new after twenty years of multiple daily uses. And it had an unconditional lifetime guarantee against any failure.

 

Last year the handle came loose, one of the two securing rivets had corroded under the stainless steel capping. I called the manufacturer, and they sent me a new one, identical in all respects, no quibble. Stellar Cookware. I think I might just be persuaded to buy another of their products should I ever need anything more in that department, and might even go past a fiver for it...

[Dunsignalling]

Agreed, as and when a bargain class 37/47/pretty much any 6 wheel tender drive Hornby chassis turns up, I've been dual motorising my loco driven Hornby 9f's which when done can pull anything !

I can see your point, but the idea hadn't occurred to me because all my 9Fs came in blue boxes and can handle anything I've so far thrown at them.

 

John

[brigo]

Out of warranty yes, but the fact is that the fault existed at the time of manufacture, and as supplied the goods were not fit for purpose. Would there not be a case against Hornby (or actually Sanda Kan (now Kader) as they were doing the manufacturing then...)?

 

 

For this class of goods- toys -  my suspicion is that the UK consumer law requirement is 'fit for purpose' at purchase and for some relatively brief period thereafter, circa 6 months. After that, you are on your own.

 

It's probably already been mentioned in this topic but under the Consumer Rights Act (was Sale Of Goods Act) you have redress from the supplier for up to 6 years (5 in Scotland) against manufacturing defects. Zinc rot would certainly be classed as that.

 

Brian

[JSpencer]

I can see your point, but the idea hadn't occurred to me because all my 9Fs came in blue boxes and can handle anything I've so far thrown at them.

 

John

 

I have four 9Fs, a 1990s British made tender drive Hornby Evening Star which is rarely - if ever - used now, 2 Bachmann ones (single & double chimney, 2 tender types) with full Bachmann weathering and a Hornby Crosti 9F whch has at least 1 part the 25 year old Evening Star.

 

The Bachmann 9Fs are indeed very capable and powerful pullers while being practical to operate, they alongside the WD 2-8-0 are my favorite heavy freight hullers. The Crosti is not far behind, with equal running characteristics though slightly weaker.

I guess the Heljan Garret will out pull one of these but not two, however this is a big clumsy machine and I've not yet been able to get satisfactory running out of it yet (though it does not share the double speed chassis and burning motors that others have suffered).

The 28XX and 72XX are rather light, the ROD and 7F is OK but not up to the same standard neither in terms of running nor detail as the 9Fs (nor WD 2-8-0). The G2A is a good runner though smaller loco. The only 8F I have is tender drive....

 

Basically when it comes to heavy freight work you cannot beat the Bachmann 9F.

[adb968008]

Basically when it comes to heavy freight work you cannot beat the Bachmann 9F.

Heljans 02 can.. and some.

 

It out pulls all my freight locos, bar the double motored 9f.

(haven't tried it against the garratt)

 

However put a Roco S160 in the mix and it's game over for anything British, steam or diesel.

Edited April 6, 2017 by adb968008