East Coast Mainline Blockade for Werrington Junction diveunder

[melmerby]

49 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

As I understand  it a flying junction is what the whole project does, namely a grade separated junction that allows trains to cross the GN main line without obstructing it. The new junction here, one of several in the whole project, is what I would call a double or flat junction with as you say two points and a diamond crossing. These went out of fashion in the 70's (I think) mainly due to the maintenance  required on the diamond crossing. Then came single lead junctions that needed 4 points, a crossover, a diverging point then another where the double track began again.  There were several accidents involving them and I think they have gone out of favour again. 

 

Jamie

The Nuneaton to Leicester line had that arrangement at Wigston North Jn. and apart from anything else it caused delays as only one train cain be in the junction at anytime.

 

Railcam Uk updated their diagram for the Werrington area a couple of months ago with the proposed layout and it is shown as a two lead junction without a diamond.

 

I cannot see how 4 points has less maintenance then 2 points and a diamond!

Edited August 16, 2020 by melmerby

[jamie92208]

16 minutes ago, melmerby said:

The Nuneaton to Leicester line had that arrangement at Wigston North Jn. and apart from anything else it caused delays as only one train cain be in the junction at anytime.

 

Railcam Uk updated their diagram for the Werrington area a couple of months ago with the proposed layout and it is shown as a two lead junction without a diamond.

 

I cannot see how 4 points has less maintenance then 2 points and a diamond!

Thanks for that.  From what I know the diamond of a diamond crossing is very high maintenance.  I have a video of one in the US where two busy double track main lines cross at Rochelle Illinois. They have a welding crew working most days to build up the crossing noses.  If anyone is interested I can try and post it here.  It usually imposes a speed li it as well.

 

If they have just installed a crossover are they now going to i stall 2 more points to give access to the diveunder lines. I don't have access to Railcam unfortunately. 

 

Jamie

Edited August 16, 2020 by jamie92208

[Donington Road]

57 minutes ago, LNERGE said:

The first movement over the new crossover..

 

Great photo.  I moved to the wrong bridge and missed it! such is life

[melmerby]

4 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

Thanks for that.  From what I know the diamond of a diamond crossing is very high maintenance.  I have a video of one in the US where two busy double track main lines cross at Rochelle Illinois. They have a welding crew working most days to build up the crossing noses.  If anyone is interested I can try and post it here.  It usually imposes a speed li it as well.

 

Jamie

But surely 2 points + a diamond = 4 "noses", 4 points still have 4 "noses", the ones on a point ("frog") must surely get a similar amount of wear as the following nose on a diamond, mechanically it's virtually the same.

[Donington Road]

Ballast train before the first run through.

 

Very clean and very silent tamper machines arriving at Foxcovert Road

 

Crane in the background about to use the cross over and attach to the rear of the ballast train.

 

Ballast train with crane intow about to depart.

 

For the modellers some signs on the crane.

 

...and finally a piece of discarded rail with a Sainburys barcode attached, won't get many of them in your trolley

 

 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Donington Road said:

 

 

...and finally a piece of discarded rail with a Sainburys barcode attached, won't get many of them in your trolley

 

 

Old habits die hard.

18.288m = 60' 0"

[Richard E]

Had a quick look about half an hour ago (so 17:10 or thereabouts) and there looked to be both tampers still on the down line.

[62613]

5 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

As I understand  it a flying junction is what the whole project does, namely a grade separated junction that allows trains to cross the GN main line without obstructing it. The new junction here, one of several in the whole project, is what I would call a double or flat junction with as you say two points and a diamond crossing. These went out of fashion in the 70's (I think) mainly due to the maintenance  required on the diamond crossing. Then came single lead junctions that needed 4 points, a crossover, a diverging point then another where the double track began again.  There were several accidents involving them and I think they have gone out of favour again. 

 

Jamie

 

After Cheadle Hulme Junction was modified for the WCML upgrade, it took the form of a trailing crossover on the Stockport  side, with two leads onto the Macclesfield branch from the up line, so trains coming off there have to travel a short distance down the up line before crossing over to the proper line. I believe it was done to allow the speed limit over the divergence to be raised

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by 62613

[jamie92208]

2 hours ago, 62613 said:

 

After Cheadle Hulme Junction was modified for the WCML upgrade, it took the form of a trailing crossover on the Stockport  side, with two leads onto the Macclesfield branch from the up line, so trains coming off there have to travel a short distance down the up line before crossing over to the proper line. I believe it was done to allow the speed limit over the divergence to be raised

 

 

Thanks to Donnington Road for sending me the track plan.   I can now see that the same arrangement is being made here with two diverging points on the down line either side of the cross over.   It still needs 4 point ends so there will be a fair bit of maintenance but presumably allows a higher speed, which with long freights could help enhance capacity. I suppose that this arrangement does away with the problems of single lead junctions but still needs the same number of point ends and also allows parallel moves.

 

Jamie

Edited August 16, 2020 by jamie92208

[Donington Road]

Some of Sunday's events.

 

 

[RJS1977]

4 hours ago, 62613 said:

 

After Cheadle Hulme Junction was modified for the WCML upgrade, it took the form of a trailing crossover on the Stockport  side, with two leads onto the Macclesfield branch from the up line, so trains coming off there have to travel a short distance down the up line before crossing over to the proper line. I believe it was done to allow the speed limit over the divergence to be raised

 

 

Southcote Junction near Reading's the same.

[corneliuslundie]

Thanks for the video.

I am curious about the vehicle between the hoppers and the track panel wagons. Obviously something quite complicated.

And much better weathering on those hoppers! Seriously, I assume it is rust as ballast would not be that colour. And nice interior views for modellers (not that they are my period by a century).

Jonathan

[West Junction]

The vehicle between the Auto hoppers and the Tilting wagons is a modified Perch wagon to carry the Module S&C lifting beam which the Kirow uses to lift the S&C panels off.

 

Most Module S&C from Beeston for a work site would be formed of the required number of Tilting wagons with a Beam wagon one end and a Bass/OCA the other for other materials.

 

 

[chris p bacon]

44 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

I assume it is rust as ballast would not be that colour

 

Yes it's rust, I've always assumed the top of the wagon takes a bit of a battering at loading.

[Crun]

16 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

 

Thanks to Donnington Road for sending me the track plan.   I can now see that the same arrangement is being made here with two diverging points on the down line either side of the cross over.   It still needs 4 point ends so there will be a fair bit of maintenance but presumably allows a higher speed, which with long freights could help enhance capacity. I suppose that this arrangement does away with the problems of single lead junctions but still needs the same number of point ends and also allows parallel moves.

 

Jamie

 

I have a question from another forum: "Presumably the new crossover will give additional flexibility in the event of a track issue?"

Edited August 17, 2020 by Crun

[jamie92208]

29 minutes ago, Crun said:

 

I have a question from another forum: "Presumably the new crossover will give additional flexibility in the event of a track issue?"

Yes it will as it gives a crossover which doesn't  exist in a standard double junction so there is some more built in flexibility.

 

Jamie

[Richard E]

Thinking a bit more about this there was a single slip at the north end of platform 4/5 at Peterborough station prior to the building of platforms 6 and 7. In the rebuild and rationalisation I believe that was replaced with a pair of points iirc on reliability grounds.

 

Presumably this is a similar argument against introducing new flat crossings where the up Spalding crosses the down line to access the dive under. At least there isn't the same issue at Marholm Junction if I'm picturing it correctly.

[melmerby]

31 minutes ago, Richard E said:

 

 

 At least there isn't the same issue at Marholm Junction if I'm picturing it correctly.

Looking North, Marholm Jn. will have a single point on each track where the down Stamford deviates West of the diveunder and the up Stamford joins after passing the East side of the diveunder.

 

I would guess the actual formation will be aligned for the highest speed on the Stamford lines? Can anyone confirm?

[Donington Road]

Photos taken this evening by my roving reporter friend.

 

The access bridge from the main site to west of the Stamford lines is no more.

 

These poor chaps in the wide-way have a long walk home now.  They will have to walk up to the dive under itself then come back down the footpath on the east side of Brook Drain where the gang in the background are, as far as Cock Lane footbridge to access the main site.

[Donington Road]

More from this evenings roving reporter.

 

Just as bad as Utility companies.  Digging up the access road that was laid a couple of weeks ago to put in the drainage for Cock Lane footbridge.

 

 

The access path the gang in the wide-way are aiming for is where the lifebouy is in the background.

[Donington Road]

A few more from the roving reporter.

 

Water in the wide-way.

 

 

[Donington Road]

For information.

 

[Donington Road]

Photos taken last Friday 14th August 2020.

 

Looking from Walton towards Cock Lane the site of the future Marholm Junction will be where the cabinet is located.

 

A different view point than normal of the site west of Cock Lane footbridge.

 

The west side of Cock Lane footbridge, Brook Drain culvert is on the left.

 

The access bridge across Brook Drain just before demolition.

[Donington Road]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

Looking North, Marholm Jn. will have a single point on each track where the down Stamford deviates West of the diveunder and the up Stamford joins after passing the East side of the diveunder.

 

I would guess the actual formation will be aligned for the highest speed on the Stamford lines? Can anyone confirm?

 

Fom Marholm Junction the dive under lines will go straight with the Stamford Lines curving away slightly either side.  I would not envisage a change in line speed for the Stamford Lines.

 

These are the speeds quoted on the original plans but I cannot confirm they will be the actual ones when it is all finished.

Down Stamford 65/75mph

Up Stamford 75mph

Down Dive Under (from Marholm Junction) 60mph to just under ECML then 40mph** to just shy of A15 road bridge then 60mph to Glinton Junction

Up Dive Under the same as Down.

 

** I think this is a mistake and it should be 60mph throughout from Marholm Junction to Glinton Junction.  The existing Joint is 40mph*** in the same area, as that has to take into account the ladder crossing on the ECML and I think they have just copied those speeds on the plan at that point for the dive under.

 

*** The way some of those freights go over the ladder from ECML to the Joint look to be more than 40 at times

[Donington Road]

Quick visit to Lincoln Road this morning before the rain set in for the day.

The five extra bridge spans due for fitting in place on Friday have still not arrived.  The two beams on site have been fitted out with scaffolding, presumeably to provide for a walkway once inplace.

Concrete was being poured around the plies on the north side of the new bridge and drainage work had just started on the ramp up to Glinton Junction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Digging the trench for drainage.  The ground is extremely boggy down there.