Wayne 37901 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Thanks for the SDA numbers Baz. I plan to kit bash the Cambrian SPA into an SDA (at some point in the future....so many wagons to do!!!) Hi Tinsley, Are you a member of DEMU at all? Over on the forum a member has done the SDA conversion. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinsley Snail Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 Hi Tinsley, Are you a member of DEMU at all? Over on the forum a member has done the SDA conversion. Cheers, Hi Wayne, No, I am not a member. I have only returned to modelling a couple of years ago, so not really thought about it to be honest. I'll have a look, sounds interesting. Cheers Marcus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Am I correct in thinking that the bolsters for the SDAs were spare from the conversions of BDAs (six bolsters) to BFAs (four bolsters, a pair each of standard and high ones)? IIRC, the BFA were converted to allow them to carry the maximum weight of 30' lengths of billets. When these were loaded centrally on BDAs, the maximum load was about 40 tonnes, but with the split loading of the BFA, they could load to the wagon's plated weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Am I correct in thinking that the bolsters for the SDAs were spare from the conversions of BDAs (six bolsters) to BFAs (four bolsters, a pair each of standard and high ones)? IIRC, the BFA were converted to allow them to carry the maximum weight of 30' lengths of billets. When these were loaded centrally on BDAs, the maximum load was about 40 tonnes, but with the split loading of the BFA, they could load to the wagon's plated weight. From memory the bolsters were recovered from condemned BDW's! The BFA's had two raised bolsters at one end so the other end was lower and the bars could be loade so they overlapped at the centre of the wagon! Mark Saunders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 The only photo I have found that shows the internal work involved in the conversion of an SPA to SHA. . Two boxes, one at each end with a hinged lid, presumably to store sheets, timber blocks etc; also several spigots along the centre line to allow 'eye to sky' loading of coils. . Brian R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazjones1711 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Thanks Brian , Not a difficult conversion, two boxes and some spigots, think they had sheet metal floors ?. There was a pool of OCA that worked out of ebbw vale . BSC Ebbw Vale - various tinplate pool 4205 112117,176,238,245,344,361,377 Total 7 Don't know if there was any conversion to these Baz Edited August 5, 2016 by bazjones1711 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazjones1711 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) http://www.claphammodelrail.com/wagons.html Look for the tinplate conundrum ! Baz Edited August 5, 2016 by bazjones1711 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Thanks Brian , Not a difficult conversion, two boxes and some spigots, think they had sheet metal floors ?. There was a pool of OCA that worked out of ebbw vale . BSC Ebbw Vale - various tinplate pool 4205 112117,176,238,245,344,361,377 Total 7 Don't know if there was any conversion to these Baz Well what are you waiting for ? . Get cracking ! Brian R . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazjones1711 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 found this picture Baz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberDG Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Thanks Brian , Not a difficult conversion, two boxes and some spigots, think they had sheet metal floors ?. There was a pool of OCA that worked out of ebbw vale . BSC Ebbw Vale - various tinplate pool 4205 112117,176,238,245,344,361,377 Total 7 Don't know if there was any conversion to these Baz Hi Baz, must get around to adding further to that blog you linked to with some pics of the finished wagons. Looking at stock box could possibly sneak an OCA in........so..... In terms of the OCAs in Pool 4205, does anyone know anything more about them. Were they modified internally in a way to aid loading/positioning of the coils or had storage units for the rail tarps? Were they all flame red livery or any in grey/yellow? What was the flow they were used on and around what times early or late 90s? Also going back in this thread about the carriage of bailed scrap. Whilst researching the SHAs came across a u-tube clip of a steel train to Shotton and amongst a raft of SPAs was clearly 2 Tiger Cubs, both in plane grey (no Yeoman Ys).....going for loading of bailed scrap. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Looking at Paul Bartlett's site, there are two views of POAs taken at Tidal Sidings; both are of the type converted from ferry tanks with the former brake platforms retained. These may be amongst the wagons that carried the baled scrap from Shotton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 How I wish I'd kept even better notes at that time. . Can't recall the platform fitted POAs at Tidal. . But I do recall the three prototype SJAs in scrap traffic from Shotton around 1990. . Job for today (wifey on the raz !), consult some old note books and photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazjones1711 Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Like Brian, I'll dig through my old books and notes and see what I come up with ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 How I wish I'd kept even better notes at that time. . Can't recall the platform fitted POAs at Tidal. . But I do recall the three prototype SJAs in scrap traffic from Shotton around 1990. . Job for today (wifey on the raz !), consult some old note books and photos. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/poapo15a/h6e08b4d#h6e08b4d I do wonder if the tanks from the original wagons were the ones they used to make lids for the bogie scrap wagons on the Shotton scrap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazjones1711 Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 hi all, The platform fitted POA were TRL 5143 - TRL 5151 built on former ferry tanks in 1985 , saw them at seven tunnel junction back in the 80's then working from Nortons scrapyard at Bilston to ASW Cardiff and possibly from Parry Metals at Brentford IIRC. The other POA that carried scrap were TRL 5170 - TRL 5181 that worked from BSC Shotton to BSC Ravenscraig / BSC Port Talbot with baled scrap, TRL 5181 was in yellow livery and i think TRL 5175 was in light blue and originally fitted with some sort of roof / tarpaulin The other batch was TRL 5254 - TRL 5266 again working out of Shotton, Baz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 (edited) Yes OCA were used in baled scrap Pool 4105 BSC Shotton - various baled scrap 112223 276 296 309 314 343 357 Total 7 Late 1990 / Early 1991 a 'reported change' was . Pool 4105 OCA for baled scrap traffic from BSC Shotton 112038, 112063, 112165, 112168, 112177, 112201, 112206, 112217, 112223, 112242, 112269, 112296, 112309, 112314, 112343, 112357, 112394 . Unfortunately, what the 'change' was in Pool 4105 I don't know, although these numbers indicate more wagons (and some different wagons) than those mentioned earlier by Baz. . Brian R Edited August 7, 2016 by br2975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Just came across this photo on Flickr whilst looking for something else. A good representation of a steel train with coils carried in a right mix of wagons. I remember working a couple of these trains like this and thought that SPA's where used on coil traffic loaded eye to sky. 37903 6V75 Mossend-Margam, Wrenbury 06.05.89 by Mick Page, on Flickr Paul J. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne 37901 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Excellent find there Paul. SPAs were also used in slab traffic, I've seen a shot on the South wales episode of the Railfreight Today series of DVDs and it shows a Ravenscraig - Llanwern/Margam slab working mainly made up of BAA/BBA with the odd SPA thrown in. Not related to SPAs but I've also seen shots of BDAs in coil traffic due to a shortage of BAA/BBA, these were loaded with only two coils one over each bogie due to the wooden floors on the wagons. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Excellent find there Paul. SPAs were also used in slab traffic, I've seen a shot on the South wales episode of the Railfreight Today series of DVDs and it shows a Ravenscraig - Llanwern/Margam slab working mainly made up of BAA/BBA with the odd SPA thrown in. Not related to SPAs but I've also seen shots of BDAs in coil traffic due to a shortage of BAA/BBA, these were loaded with only two coils one over each bogie due to the wooden floors on the wagons. Cheers Not so much the wooden floors (which were supported by the longitudinal frame of the wagon), but the total weight of the coils. These chassis could bend impressively if a big coil was centrally placed- did you ever see that BNA/BMA that was at East Usk Yard for ages? The middle was so badly deformed, the trusses were at rail height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Excellent find there Paul. SPAs were also used in slab traffic, I've seen a shot on the South wales episode of the Railfreight Today series of DVDs and it shows a Ravenscraig - Llanwern/Margam slab working mainly made up of BAA/BBA with the odd SPA thrown in. Not related to SPAs but I've also seen shots of BDAs in coil traffic due to a shortage of BAA/BBA, these were loaded with only two coils one over each bogie due to the wooden floors on the wagons. Cheers Not so much the wooden floors (which were supported by the longitudinal frame of the wagon), but the total weight of the coils. These chassis could bend impressively if a big coil was centrally placed- did you ever see that BNA/BMA that was at East Usk Yard for ages? The middle was so badly deformed, the trusses were at rail height. I did manage to capture some BDA's in coil use. Note only one coil carried over each bogie. Not my best photographic efforts, but it was p*ssing down when I took them. Date is Aug 92 at Hereford. Note that the coil carried is Cold Rolled Coil, which could be carried on wooden floors, as opposed to Hot Rolled Coil which could only be carried on steel floored wagons. We used to carry a mix up to Dee Marsh at one time, the CRC often being carried in hooded wagons, which HRC couldn't be, to protect it from the elements, although that wasn't absolutely necessary. The hooded wagons then being back loaded with finished coils. A case of efficient use of rolling stock. Paul J. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Hot rolled coil (sometimes hot reduced coil) is coil that is rolled from the slabs coming from the Continuous Casting Plant, between rollers heated to about 760 Celsius- it has generally cooled sufficiently at despatch to allow it to be loaded into wooden-faced cradles. The surface is covered by mill-scale, which limits the damage caused by corrosion. Cold Reduced Coil is rolled between rollers at close to room temperature, to much finer tolerances, and with a surface finish that means it is ready for coating/galvanising etc. As the surface doesn't have a coat of mill-scale, it is vulnerable to the elements, which is why coils for export from Llanwern and elsewhere were either wrapped in plastic, or loaded on to hooded/ sheeted wagons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Just came across this photo on Flickr whilst looking for something else. A good representation of a steel train with coils carried in a right mix of wagons. I remember working a couple of these trains like this and thought that SPA's where used on coil traffic loaded eye to sky. ... Really nice photo! Not being an expert in these matters, what are the TOPS codes of the other vehicles in the train? Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Really nice photo! Not being an expert in these matters, what are the TOPS codes of the other vehicles in the train? Regards The first one after the SPAs is a BAA, then a BBA (similar, but longer with deeper 'fishbelly'), then more BAAs, with a rake of cradle-fitted BAA/BBA at the back. The white-painted side and end edges are to help the crane driver in the hot slab loading bay see the wagon; visibility there is not very good, with a lot of dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinsley Snail Posted June 2, 2023 Author Share Posted June 2, 2023 Some interesting footage of steel coil being loaded at Grimsby Docks and Brick Pit Sidings in this video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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