SNCF experience downturn in traffic too.

[alcazar]

http://le-forum-du-n.forumotions.com/france-f29/locomotive-garees-bon-etat-t6039.htm

 

I passed the yard on Saturday 20th February 2010, heading north, and was shocked to see lines of locos, including quite a few large classes, stored on tracks parallel to the main road.

 

I promptly did a U-turn and went back. A local told me there are over 160 locos there now, awaiting either breaking, or return to traffic if/when the upturn comes. He commented that there are scenes like these at more than one place in France, but he wasn't sure where else locos were stored. Given the number of large yards the SNCF still has, they could be anywhere.

[woodenhead]

Ressemble à une français Healy Mills ou un Toton.

 

Like the way that 'LOL' is used as well as 'No Comment', the French Government may be trying to get people to stop using other languages mixed into the native, but the locals are still resisting, 'éclate de rire' or 'edr' hasnt got the same ring to it.

 

Google translate is my friend, I can be fluent in any language.

[Fat Controller]

http://le-forum-du-n.forumotions.com/france-f29/locomotive-garees-bon-etat-t6039.htm

 

I passed the yard on Saturday 20th February 2010, heading north, and was shocked to see lines of locos, including quite a few large classes, stored on tracks parallel to the main road.

 

I promptly did a U-turn and went back. A local told me there are over 160 locos there now, awaiting either breaking, or return to traffic if/when the upturn comes. He commented that there are scenes like these at more than one place in France, but he wasn't sure where else locos were stored. Given the number of large yards the SNCF still has, they could be anywhere.

There were quite a few BB22200 stored at Villeneuve-St-Georges when I went past last. There have been lines of locos awating breaking at Sotteville for quite a while though, since before the global downturn- most noticeable were the A1A-A1A 68000s, BB67000 and some of the older electrics (BB17000?). They've had a big loco-buying programme over the past decade, so it was inevitable that a lot of older stuff would go.

They seem to be struggling to get new traffic though- Le Havre, which possibly handles more containers than Southampton or Felixstowe, sends out only a handful of trains per day. I had the good fortune to have a cab-ride from St Lazare to Le Havre about three years ago, going down at about 08:30- we passed quite a few light engines, which my driver told me were running in the path of 'conditional' freights, mainly container traffic.

[alcazar]

Yes, I pass Sotteville regularly, 5-6 times a year, and the shed often has locos awaiting the local WORKS, (Quatre Mars), but not necessarliy breaking.

 

These are on the other side of the triage, highly visible from the road. Apparently, according to Mr. Le Local, they started arriving in November last year, with around 60. There are now, or were, 160+

[alcazar]

I've just passed the stored locos again, 2nd and 16th April. On the way out, the numbers seemed to have increased again.

On the return trip, several of the older locos in the old green livery have been painted with the HUGE slogan:

 

"NON A LA FERMETURE DU TRIAGE"

 

(No to the closure of the yard).

 

I wonder what THAT is all about? Sotteville yard is one of the biggest on the SNCF http://www.multimap.com/maps/?qs=sotteville&countryCode=FR#map=49.41466,1.09151|15|32&bd=useful_information&loc=FR:49.41465:1.09151:14|sotteville%20les%20rouen|Sotteville-l%C3%A8s-Rouen,%20Seine-Maritime

[Fat Controller]

I've just passed the stored locos again, 2nd and 16th April. On the way out, the numbers seemed to have increased again.

On the return trip, several of the older locos in the old green livery have been painted with the HUGE slogan:

 

"NON A LA FERMETURE DU TRIAGE"

 

(No to the closure of the yard).

 

I wonder what THAT is all about? Sotteville yard is one of the biggest on the SNCF http://www.multimap.com/maps/?qs=sotteville&countryCode=FR#map=49.41466,1.09151|15|32&bd=useful_information&loc=FR:49.41465:1.09151:14|sotteville%20les%20rouen|Sotteville-l%C3%A8s-Rouen,%20Seine-Maritime

Given the losses that Fret SNCF is making, I wouldn't be surprised to see the yard shutting- the majority of services now seem to be block trains, which only need to use the 'relais' part of the yard for crew changes, waiting for paths to the port etc.

[Gordonwis]

Wagon sorting by hump shunting ceased at Sotteville earlier this month. The French are very specific when it comes to designations so 'triage' in French more specifically refers to wagon sorting, so it doesn't mean the complete closure of the yard - yet.

[Ravenser]

There were quite a few BB22200 stored at Villeneuve-St-Georges when I went past last. There have been lines of locos awating breaking at Sotteville for quite a while though, since before the global downturn- most noticeable were the A1A-A1A 68000s, BB67000 and some of the older electrics (BB17000?). They've had a big loco-buying programme over the past decade, so it was inevitable that a lot of older stuff would go.

They seem to be struggling to get new traffic though- Le Havre, which possibly handles more containers than Southampton or Felixstowe, sends out only a handful of trains per day. I had the good fortune to have a cab-ride from St Lazare to Le Havre about three years ago, going down at about 08:30- we passed quite a few light engines, which my driver told me were running in the path of 'conditional' freights, mainly container traffic.

 

 

Le Havre handles far less volume than Southampton, never mind Felixstowe. And rail penetration in the French container market is far lower than in the UK

[brushman47544]

Hopefully the locos are being maintained GBE (garé bon état, i.e kept in working order) or in the event of an upturn the locos will be very costly to reinstate.

 

What is particularly silly, but a consequence of sectorisation (even in France it seems) is the lines of stored relatively modern BB22200, whilst elderly Jacquemin BB9200, BB9300 and BB16000 struggle on in passenger service. 22218 and 22223 have recently be transferred from FRET to IDF (Paris suburban services), so perhaps more of the stored locos will follow. Ex FRET 7200s (7201 to 7235 in particular) are slowly replacing 9200 and 9300 and ex FRET 22200s are also supposed to be taking over from 16000s on Paris Nord - St Quentin/Meubeuge services. We'll see.

 

But when rail traffic does return, it seems that SNCF FRET, with its high costs and union rules/agreements, cannot compete with the likes of Euro Cargo Rail and the other open access operators.

[Fat Controller]

Hopefully the locos are being maintained GBE (garé bon état, i.e kept in working order) or in the event of an upturn the locos will be very costly to reinstate.

 

What is particularly silly, but a consequence of sectorisation (even in France it seems) is the lines of stored relatively modern BB22200, whilst elderly Jacquemin BB9200, BB9300 and BB16000 struggle on in passenger service. 22218 and 22223 have recently be transferred from FRET to IDF (Paris suburban services), so perhaps more of the stored locos will follow. Ex FRET 7200s (7201 to 7235 in particular) are slowly replacing 9200 and 9300 and ex FRET 22200s are also supposed to be taking over from 16000s on Paris Nord - St Quentin/Meubeuge services. We'll see.

 

But when rail traffic does return, it seems that SNCF FRET, with its high costs and union rules/agreements, cannot compete with the likes of Euro Cargo Rail and the other open access operators.

Apparently, some of the new BB75000 diesels from the stored Fret pool are being repainted into Infrastructure livery at a cost of several tens of thousands of Euros each, whilst brand-new ex-Alstom locos are being painted in Fret livery and put into store. 'Ya couldn't make it up' as Glenda Slagg might have put it.

The SNCF group is even competing against itself, with its VFLI subsidiary, originally set up to supply shunting facilities for industry, now operating main-line services. Some of these are over quite long distances, such as from the Lille area to Le Havre. One of the reasons they can undercut the parent company is that drivers retire at 65, rather than at 50.

One consequence of Sectorising SNCF is that it will become more difficult to organise seasonal passenger workings, as a lot of these depend on drivers working the same routes on freight out-of-season.

[SNCF stephen]

I drove past these stored locomotives twice in the past two weeks (I have a video which I will put on youtube shortly!). It is an impressive and sad sight to see the locomotives being stored like that.

 

I made a note of the slogans daubed on the sides of the locomotives:

 

Remeture Du Triage

 

Non Al Casse SNCF

 

Lafe De La

 

I was scrawling hastily as I went past and I suspect some of the locomotives have been moved because some of the slogans seemed incomplete. Putting this into a translation program has yielded not much in the way of a tangible translation.

 

It did seem like the rest of the yard was in use with a variety of shunting locomotives being used to move freight cars around.

[The Stationmaster]

 

One consequence of Sectorising SNCF is that it will become more difficult to organise seasonal passenger workings, as a lot of these depend on drivers working the same routes on freight out-of-season.

 

Perhaps not too serious tho' as their 'working over' requirements are none too strict because of the Livre Ligne system. And road learning is cheap in France, Lille men took less than a week when they got the Eurostar 'ski train' (they don't go all the way to Bourg St Maurice but not too far short of it).

 

I presume however that sectorisation has ended the mixed Driver's diagrams in the way that it gradually (at first) did here?

[Fat Controller]

Just came back from Grenoble by TGV today. Though most of my route was on LGV, I did use 'classic' routes from Pontcharra via Grenoble to Lyon St Ex. There were still a few active private sidings between Pontcharra and Grenoble, and also near Bourgoin-Jallieu, though they weren't hugely busy.

What was very noticeable was the difference between Valenton and Villeneuve-St-Georges yards, seen from the last bit of the LGV viaduct going into Gare du Lyon. The former, which is used by Europorte and ECR to stage trains, was crammed full; the latter, used by SNCF, was largely empty.