French roads

[ianp]

For the road on my N gauge French layout I have used one of those ready-to-lay imitation tarmac strips from Busch or Noch. However they look much too shiny and modern; not at all in line with the impression I wish to create of a country French road, shrouded by plane trees, back in the 1950s, when (for instance) road markings were a rarity. So, what sort of paint (if any) could I apply to the imitation tarmac strip to achieve the right look? I realise I could try almost anything, but has anyone actually done this successfully?

[rue_d_etropal]

if the surface is shiny or plastic, it will need a coat of decent matt grey acrylic primer. Grey seems to stick best, and also makes a good background colour for many things. Road colour can then be built up. With a flat primer it should then be possible to use any type of paint, even water based ones such as emulsion(many colours available in matchpots). It should not need acrylic or oil based paints, unless you happen to have plenty of those already. I like the matchpots because they are cheap and easy for me to get hold of.

One thing though, try it on a small section first to test it out.

[Fat Controller]

Don't forget the seemingly-omnipresent ditch on either side of the road, with either small stone arches or concrete culverts leading to the fields every so often. If you've already got the road surfaces, give them a coat of matt varnish, then lightly dust with talc whilst the varnish is still tacky.

[SNCF stephen]

If I were to use a strip like yours I would do what others have suggested and use a matt varnish to tone it down.

 

However if I were you and you wanted the best finish I would lift it all and replace it with DAS clay which should be sanded down to achieve a smooth finish. Then I applied a coat or two of citidal paints grey primer. In my eyes it is the best colour for road surfaces. It could be gently toned down with a sparse application of weathering powders.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Road surfaces on model railways are generally far too dark. Apart from when freshly laid, tarmac roads are really quite a light grey colour. The French use a lot of stone chip on rural roads which is a very pale colour.

 

When it comes to markings, I have an idea that back in the fifties a lot of the lines (where they existed) were in yellow paint rather than white. And, of course, so were the headlights back then.

[Allegheny1600]

For a small country road rather than any kind of main route, I would suggest no markings at all.

Colour would depend on the type of local stone or gravel available, in 'my' area (Lot et Garonne, 47) it could be quite a creamy/sandy colour.

My earliest knowledge of French country roads was from the 1970's until about ten years ago and in the south west, they don't seem to have bothered with markings yet, except maybe at some junctions.

In addition to the omnipresent ditch as mentioned by Fat Controller above, you may wish to add ocasional "Kilometre" markers. There are usually made of stone, triangular in shape with a rounded top. In the period I noted, the rounded bit was painted red, the main body white. I assume they have been around since motorised vehicles were introduced?

Older road signs were dark blue with white lettering, if memory serves.

Don't forget the "deux chevaux" - an absolute must for any French scene since 1948!

Bon chance!

John.

[Fat Controller]

I think the 'borne' (km markers) date back to much earlier than motorised vehicles. Another thing one sees in France (and Italy, to an extent)are route markings and road numbers, carved into the corner-stones of houses. In recent years, as roads have been declassified, the old number won't be picked out, though the rest of the details will be. The road that passes by my village in the Beaujolaise was originally the N485, then the D485, and is currently the D385- everyone still calls it the 'Nationale'. If you have any road junctions, don't paint white lines on them- 'prioritié a droite' is assumed. When white lines and signs at junctions started to appear, probably within the last 20 years on minor roads, the signs (and road-surface lettering, if present) carried the word 'STOP', rather than 'Arret'. Horse and oxen-drawn vehicles were still to be seen in parts of the Auvergne and Ardeche in the early 1980s. As a result, working horse-troughs would still to be seen, alongside the 'lavoirs' (communal 'laundries') with their roofed stone or concrete basins. These were often located close to a spring, rather than near to habitation.

[Stubby47]

There are a few images here which might help : 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pempoul+model+railway&espv=2&biw=1680&bih=925&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmgM7TpazMAhWoIsAKHbLQDSAQ_AUIBigB

[Joseph_Pestell]

For a small country road rather than any kind of main route, I would suggest no markings at all.

Colour would depend on the type of local stone or gravel available, in 'my' area (Lot et Garonne, 47) it could be quite a creamy/sandy colour.

My earliest knowledge of French country roads was from the 1970's until about ten years ago and in the south west, they don't seem to have bothered with markings yet, except maybe at some junctions.

In addition to the omnipresent ditch as mentioned by Fat Controller above, you may wish to add ocasional "Kilometre" markers. There are usually made of stone, triangular in shape with a rounded top. In the period I noted, the rounded bit was painted red, the main body white. I assume they have been around since motorised vehicles were introduced?

Older road signs were dark blue with white lettering, if memory serves.

Don't forget the "deux chevaux" - an absolute must for any French scene since 1948!

Bon chance!

John.

 

Bornes are in red and white for N roads, but yellow and white for D roads (and it's a rectangular column with a rounded top).

 

I agree about the lack of marking on many lesser roads. Our local road, a former N, now a D, is quite a decent road but only has markings on bends, with long stretches not having any markings.

 

A bit before the period of the OP's interest, but many roads in France were not metalled until very late. A photo of the TA station at Lezignan in the 1930s shows the N113, main road across the south of the country, still unmetalled.

[Penlan]

Typical French Road - Mr Hulot's Holiday, ditch on other side,

No sense of which side of the road to drive either....

It was like that in rural France in the '70's too, but then my 1934 Austin 7 had a tendency to also wander about.  

But it was OK for getting to the Tobac and back.

If your road is long enough, then a small stone built roadside shrine would not be out of place.

 

[Pacific231G]

I looked into this a while ago for my own layout and found that they ranged between a mid grey and an off white or cream if a lot of local chalks or flints were used as top dressing.

My best source was pictures of roadside tramways but the only colour ones tend to be from the final years of the last examples in the mid to late 1950s. Looking particularly at those of the Correze Tramways that finally closed in 1959 I was quite surprised to see how many of the D roads it ran alongside deep in rural France were tarred though often with a thin top dressing of small stones.

Comparing those pictures (which are of course copyright) with some I took myself in the 1970s and 1980s the road surfaces seem to have changed very little.

These are various road surfaces two of them station approaches- that tended to be less improved than some local roads- from an intermediate station on the Vivarais and the the Blanc Argent (which serves a region about as typically France Profond  as you can get) and the public road behind the old Tournon terminus of the Vivarais 

 

I agree about modelled roads generally being too dark and the surface of this goods yard in I think Alencon sometime in the mid 1990s is pretty typical of the surfaces of local roads a few decades earlier .

 

Somewhere I've got some contemporary diagrams of standards for roadside tramways and these include sections of standard roads including their ditches. I'll try to find them.

[Joseph_Pestell]

That first photo reminds me that the obligatory vehicle for a French layout of the early 1960s is not the 2CV but the 4L. Twice as many built.

[Fat Controller]

'Calvarie', wrought-iron crosses on stone pillars, are common- these date either from the period after the Franco-Prussian war, or from the Catholic Revival at the beginning of the 20th century. There are often, depending on the region, roadside memorials to either WW1 battles, or to Resistance members and others shot by the Germans during WW2; these seem to have become more common in recent years.

[Penlan]

My main memory of French country roads was dust, I had to fit a filter to my carb., on the Austin 7, and replace the filter often.

[ianp]

Problem solved. I used Vallejo acrylic paint to paint over the imitation tarmac strip - and it worked. I tested a few colours first on some spare strip and ended up using London Grey, though Neutral Grey or Basalt Grey would have been just as good. Two coats (applied with a brush wetted in water just to get the paint flowing nicely) produced the effect I wanted. Top tip: hoover the surface first, to get rid of dust which may show as bobbles on the road when painted. Thanks for the suggestions above.

[JeffP]

There were plenty of bobbles on French roads in those days, and potholes and bumps, not to mention that the edges often crumbled away.....

[Focalplane]

Chaussée Déformée comes to mind.  I remember one sign that promised over 50 kms of potholes, etc. back in the 1960s.  I bit like Gloucestershire today.

[Fat Controller]

Chaussée Déformée comes to mind.  I remember one sign that promised over 50 kms of potholes, etc. back in the 1960s.  I bit like Gloucestershire today.

'Trous en formation'. Never understood why they had to train the things. I shall see a lot of signs like this when I leave the autoroute and go on to my 'Itineaire Bis' towards Beaujolaise tomorrow.

[JeffP]

You even get that one on motorways...the A1 between Arras and Lille, the free bit, is full of them.

 

Out of interest, can the Route Bis maps still be had? if so, from where? I searched online but found nowt.

[Fat Controller]

You even get that one on motorways...the A1 between Arras and Lille, the free bit, is full of them.

 

Out of interest, can the Route Bis maps still be had? if so, from where? I searched online but found nowt.

They seem to be a web-only presence-

 http://www.bison-fute.gouv.fr/cartes-de-trafic,langen.html

They still have signs on the ground. If I do see any physical maps about, I'll get you one, Jeff.

[EddieB]

I agree with Penlan.  Unless your road has been washed by the rain recently, the surface will have accumulated a layer of dust - colour according to whatever the prevailing topsoil of the area.

[JeffP]

They seem to be a web-only presence-

 http://www.bison-fute.gouv.fr/cartes-de-trafic,langen.html

They still have signs on the ground. If I do see any physical maps about, I'll get you one, Jeff.

Thanks. They used to be available for free at some larger motorway service areas, where they had a stand inside a large tent type thing. Not seen one in an age now.

[JAMO]

'Calvarie', wrought-iron crosses on stone pillars, are common- these date either from the period after the Franco-Prussian war, or from the Catholic Revival at the beginning of the 20th century. There are often, depending on the region, roadside memorials to either WW1 battles, or to Resistance members and others shot by the Germans during WW2; these seem to have become more common in recent years.

Yes, "calvaires" and "chapelles" in the North of France.

[Pacific231G]

For a good impression of a typical rural road in France in the days before mass motorisation this rather sad image from June 1940 does include a lot of useful information

 

https://www.histoire-image.org/sites/default/styles/galerie_principale/public/exode-francais-1940f.jpg?itok=9Xn_sfv_

 

Apart from the tramway having disappeared I doubt if it would have looked very different in the 1950s.