Hunslet 15" 0-6-0ST Judith Edge kitbuild

[Ruston]

Evening all,

 

I started this just this evening. I'm going to see how far I can get over this Bank Holiday weekend.

 

The plan is to build it as a rigid frame. I've put springing, or compensation, into previous builds but my 85A models 15" Hunslet is rigid and is one of the best runners in my stable of locomotives, so I'm not going to waste time and effort with compensating this one. Besides, it's going to have an almighty DCC keep-alive unit that makes such things redundant.

 

The kit instructions suggest a Mashima 18/33 and Slaters gearbox as the power unit but as I've already got a smaller Mashima and small Slaters gearbox, these will be going in instead. The smaller unit will have easily enough power to fulfil my needs and will leave more space to fit the DCC kit and weight for traction.

 

This evening's work. Frames and running plate/buffer beams.

 

It's all gone together easily, so far. I had to open out the holes for the bearings and the only snag has been that the holes for the frames/running plate attachment bolts didn't line up but a little filing did the trick.

[Andrew Young]

They're such good looking small locos and having seen that this was released, but not seen one made up, will be interested to see how you get on. My his kit might mean that the old 85A models kits might not fetch such a premium in future.

 

Cheers,

Andrew

[Ruston]

I've assembled most of the cab, today. The cab is made up on its own base and is then attached to the running plate by four small screws. Soldering the nuts for these onto the cab floor was very fiddly. It would have been easier if I'd fitted them before building up the cab but I feared they would move due to the heat of soldering the cab together because, of course, they need to be exactly placed over the holes for the screws to line up. It involved grease, tweezers and some four letter words.

 

Cab sides.

 

Rivet punch. I don't posess anything so fancy as a rivet press so this piece of threaded bar, with a hardened steel point, suffices. The hammer is very old and belonged to my grandad. He used it in his dartboard making business.

 

Assembled cab. The spare piece is the rest of the floor, which I have cut off. I intend to have a floor made from plywood as it looks better and crew figures stick to it better than to painted brass. They always come off as the paint is weaker than the glue used to stick them down.

 

The next thing will be the boiler and saddletank. Every previous 7mm steam locomotive that I have built has come with a pre-rolled boiler but this one doesn't, so I've borrowed a set of rollers. Now to work out how to do it and how, exactly the parts go together. There are no diagrams or photographs with Judith Edge kits.

 

The power unit. Does anyone know what model of Slaters gearbox this is? Their website doesn't have pictures and there is nothing on the gearbox to indicate which it is.

[Marshall5]

Rolling boilers (or saddle tanks) isn't difficult once you get the hang of it but I would strongly suggest practicing on a few pieces of scrap brass first. The tricky bit is avoiding the 'flat' which invariably tries to appear at the ends of the plate when you've rolled it but on the boiler that is usually on the bottom where you can't see it. If a part is already rivetted cover that side with thin card or the rollers will flatten them out again!

Ray.

[Michael Edge]

It should roll easily enough with those rollers, might be worth annealing first, it will work harden with rolling, In the case of this loco the bottom of the boiler is the only part that is visible, the top is under the tank but you can roll out the "flat" mentioned above by letting the boiler overlap in the rollers, both ways, and keep on rolling backwards and forwards. The gearbox you have looks like a 30:1, should fit vertical in the firebox, driving the trailing axle, cut out the top of the boiler if it's too high.

[Ruston]

Thanks, Michael. Shame it's a higher gearing but I think it will be alright.

 

I managed to roll the boiler well enough without annealing it

 

I've worked out the order in which to do things for the boiler. The smokebox baseplate needs the holes opening out and the back and front soldering on, as seen here. There is a thin wrapper that goes inbetween the front and back. I fitted this with no problem at all but then two thicker layers have to be fitted on the outside of this and flush with the front. Whilst the reverse curve was not a problem with the thin layer, the first of the thicker layers has proved to be difficult. Having rolled it for the main curve it wouldn't go in the rollers to put a reverse curve on the ends. I thought about annealing it but I was afraid that it would mark too easily with the tools that are needed to manipulate it in order to get it to follow the curve of the smokebox font and to attach it to the thin layer. So it's not gone as well as I would have liked and the second layer is yet to be fitted.

 

Meanwhile, a trial fit of the smokebox to the running plate has proved that I have got all the nuts in the right places but the screw heads foul the top of the frame spacer as this is flush with the top of the frames and there are no holes, or pilot holes to be opened out, in the frame spacer. I will have to mark out and drill these.

[Michael Edge]

You should only have to form the outer wrapper to the smokebox shape but yes, you will need to notch the top of the frames to clear the smokebox fixing screws. I thought you wouldn't have any trouble with those rolling bars, they are the same ones I use. All looking very good so far, thanks for showing everyone. We will have some more of these in our next etch order this month and I've just ordered a test etch for the 16" 0-6-0ST in 7mm scale.

[Ruston]

You should only have to form the outer wrapper to the smokebox shape

Thanks, Michael but I don't understand why, or how.

 

This is what I've got:

The thin inner, which is between the front and rear, and the first outer, which goes flush with the front. If the inner isn't supposed to be formed to the smokebox shape, have I put it in the wrong place? Another thing is that, if I've read the instuctions correctly, there is a second outer layer to fit. However the smokebox outer diameter is already slightly over that on the G.A. drawing in the instructions, and is also the same diameter as on the 85A models kit. If I add this second layer the smokebox will be too wide all round.

 

Smokebox.

Because I had punched out the row of rivets that run across the bottom the outer wrapper ended up slightly out and so I have had to sand the outer wrapper flush with the front and so lose the rivets in the process.

 

The boiler.

The gap has to go at the bottom due to the firebox sides. This gap remains even when the boiler is fitted inside the smokebox. Hopefully it won't be too noticable. The cut-out in the front is where I have made room for the large nut, inside the smokebox, that fixes the running plate to the frames. It all looks a bit ham-fisted, I know, but no one will be able to see it once it's inside the smokebox (tells self that everyone else does rough work and hides it!).

 

The boiler fitted inside the smokebox. Only as a trial until I'm sure that I have put it together properly.

[Michael Edge]

I'll check the smokebox when I finish the one that's on my bench at the moment but you shouldn't have a gap at the bottom of the boiler. Boiler diameter should be 31.5mm, then two thickening layers (20 and 21 soldered together) at the smokebox end followed by the wrapper (22). Smokebox diameter is 34.4167mm on the CAD drawing (apologies for all the decimal places, I know they are irrelevant). It may be that your drawing wasn't printed exactly to scale, we have changed our printer since these drawings were set up.

[Ruston]

I'll check the smokebox when I finish the one that's on my bench at the moment but you shouldn't have a gap at the bottom of the boiler. Boiler diameter should be 31.5mm, then two thickening layers (20 and 21 soldered together) at the smokebox end followed by the wrapper (22). Smokebox diameter is 34.4167mm on the CAD drawing (apologies for all the decimal places, I know they are irrelevant). It may be that your drawing wasn't printed exactly to scale, we have changed our printer since these drawings were set up.

Hello Michael.

 

My measuring of the outer diameter of my smokebox, in it's current state, is 34.90mm.That is with one overlay.

 

The instructions say:

 

"The smokebox is built up on the base (9) in the same way as the cab with front (17) and back (38). The main wrapper (22) fits over these"

 

I took that to mean that 17 and 38 go on the floor fore and aft of 9, not standing on top of it. Is that correct? That's how I've put them but that has meant that 22 cannot fit over them as it isn't wide enough. It is only as wide as the base (9). I formed it to the smokebox front  (17)shape with it standing on top of the base (9) and in between the front and back. So rather than 22 fitting over them it fits in between but to the shape of 17.

 

The instructions go on to say:

 

"Succesive overlays (20) and (21) are used to thicken the smokebox."

 

I took that to mean that they go on the outside of the formed shape and make the overall diameter greater (thicken it). However, you have said that I should only have to form the outer wrapper to the smokebox shape, which ,makes no sense to me because to be overlaid on the smokebox they must surely follow the shape? The problem there is that they would widen it a lot more than the dimension you have given. Obviously I'm not understanding how this goes together at all. Are the "overlays" supposed to be overlaid on the boiler at the point where it will be inside the smokebox? I guess that would make more sense.

 

I have built up the tank and when it is placed upon the boiler it closes up the gap at the bottom to almost nothing. At least I must be doing something right.

 

And have made cut outs in the frames and frame spacer for the smokebox screws.

 

It looks alright but...

 

There is a gap, which makes me think I have royally screwed up the smokebox.

Still, it's nothing some filler won't fix.

[Kenton]

 

There is a gap, which makes me think I have royally screwed up the smokebox.

Still, it's nothing some filler won't fix.

 

I wouldn't call that a gap - I've seen a lot worse.

[C2CFenchurchStreet]

 

[Ruston]

 

?

 

I have done a little more work on this. The frames now have the guard irons fitted and also the overlays for the brake cross rods.

 

The boiler and smokebox are united, as are the cab and saddletank, which has 300g of lead sheet inside it. I don't think this is quite how you're supposed to do it but the cab and tank are soldered together as one part now. The cab is located by the 4 screws and the tank clicks onto the boiler. With the smokebox screwed to the running plate it will be strong enough and will allow access into the boiler for the decoder and keep-alive. The speaker will probably go under the cab.

[Michael Edge]

Should be fine this way, makes painting easier whichever way it's done. I usually fix the boiler to the cab but as it says at the top of the instructions, that's only my way of doing things - feel free to try your own.

[Ruston]

Thanks, Michael.

 

It has now got to the part that I always have difficulty with, namely making the thing work. Why are the holes in the connecting rods on every kit, no matter who the desiger/manufacturer is, made too small for Slaters bushes? Anyhow, I laminated the 3 layers for each rod and opened out the holes to take the 2.5mm bushes but the wheels wouldn't go round. They have had to be opened out to varying sizes to get the thing to be able to be pushed along without anything binding. I do this every time, on every kit I build. I must be doing something wrong in the assembly of the frames but it's rolling along now.

 

I also felt that the rods were too deep when comparing them with prototype photos, and also when compared to the 85A models loco. I decided to slim them down to match the 85A loco.

 

 

On to the boiler backhead.

 

This is a really nice resin casting and saves a lot of hassle sticking parts on to something built up from etched brass. I have slapped a coat of black on prior to painting the details and weathering the rest.

[81A Oldoak]

There are two types of loco kit builders: those like me who can never get a free-rolling chassis at the first attempt...and those who tell lies.

[John R Smith]

There are two types of loco kit builders: those like me who can never get a free-rolling chassis at the first attempt...and those who tell lies.

 

I can't even get a free-rolling wagon . . .

 

J

[Simond]

There is a method that works. First time, every time. No secrets...

 

You need extension axles, home made or available from various suppliers. These fit your axle bearings or axleboxes snugly, and have turned down ends which are a close fit in the bearing holes of your rods. They are usefully around 6" / 150mm long, as this improves the accuracy of subsequent operations.

 

Once the frames are assembled and flat and square, you put your extension axles through the bearings, put the bearings in the holes in the frames, align everything correctly, and with your third hand, you fit the coupling rods to the ends of the extension axles. Hair grips and elastic bands are very helpful here.

 

Then, and only when you've checked that the extension axles are perpendicular to the frames, you can solder the bearings to the frames.

 

I support the extension axles on a pair of angles, which in turn sit on a piece of plate glass, whilst I do this, as that ensures your axles are in the same plane. Squared paper under the glass is helpful to see if it's all square.

 

If you are fitting hornblocks, and working suspension / equalisation, the same principles apply, but you solder / glue / screw the horn guides to the frames whilst the extensions are in place. In this case, you need jointed rods, and these have to be made up before the horns are fitted to the frames. It is helpful to have light springs which fit over the axles, they can be placed between the hornblocks, and will press the horn guides outwards, onto the frames.

 

If the rods won't fit the extensions, with the bearings in place, there's something wrong. Rods back-to-front, wrong rods, incorrect wheelbase on frames, insufficient clearance between bearing & frames. The latter is fixed with a file. The others may involve more time and/or more money or embarrassment.

 

Having followed all this, provided that the wheels are all the same (and specifically have the same crank throw - guess how I know) it will run sweetly first time, although you might have to deburr the rods, and if etched, ensure that the hole is an appropriate running fit on the bushes.

 

HTH

Simon

[Jintyman]

Simon is quite correct.

 

I've recently purchased from the Midland Railway Centre, their Axle alignment tool, and it is superb for aligning the axles to the rods. Excellent value too!!!

 

There is a picture of it in use on my JLTRT Pannier chassis, on my Talyllyn thread, quite recently too.

 

Can be found here:    http://midrailcentre.com/axle-alignment-tool

 

No connection, just a satisfied customer.

[81A Oldoak]

There is a method that works. First time, every time. No secrets...

 

You need extension axles, home made or available from various suppliers. These fit your axle bearings or axleboxes snugly, and have turned down ends which are a close fit in the bearing holes of your rods. They are usefully around 6" / 150mm long, as this improves the accuracy of subsequent operations.

 

Once the frames are assembled and flat and square, you put your extension axles through the bearings, put the bearings in the holes in the frames, align everything correctly, and with your third hand, you fit the coupling rods to the ends of the extension axles. Hair grips and elastic bands are very helpful here.

 

Then, and only when you've checked that the extension axles are perpendicular to the frames, you can solder the bearings to the frames.

 

I support the extension axles on a pair of angles, which in turn sit on a piece of plate glass, whilst I do this, as that ensures your axles are in the same plane. Squared paper under the glass is helpful to see if it's all square.

 

If you are fitting hornblocks, and working suspension / equalisation, the same principles apply, but you solder / glue / screw the horn guides to the frames whilst the extensions are in place. In this case, you need jointed rods, and these have to be made up before the horns are fitted to the frames. It is helpful to have light springs which fit over the axles, they can be placed between the hornblocks, and will press the horn guides outwards, onto the frames.

 

If the rods won't fit the extensions, with the bearings in place, there's something wrong. Rods back-to-front, wrong rods, incorrect wheelbase on frames, insufficient clearance between bearing & frames. The latter is fixed with a file. The others may involve more time and/or more money or embarrassment.

 

Having followed all this, provided that the wheels are all the same (and specifically have the same crank throw - guess how I know) it will run sweetly first time, although you might have to deburr the rods, and if etched, ensure that the hole is an appropriate running fit on the bushes.

 

HTH

Simon

In theory I would agree Simon and I remember being lured by Mike Sharman and Iain Rice and into three-point compensation with promises of its simplicity, ease of assembly and superior running. Three-point compensation remains my preferred method for building locomotive chassis and I use jig axles and the coupling rods to position the hornblocks. However, the coupling rods almost always need to be reamed out a little to accommodate Slaters crankpin bearings. I suppose the answer is to use jig axles with ends turned to the same diameter as Slaters bearings so that the rods can be adjusted before trying to fit them.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

[Michael Edge]

In theory I would agree Simon and I remember being lured by Mike Sharman and Iain Rice and into three-point compensation with promises of its simplicity, ease of assembly and superior running. Three-point compensation remains my preferred method for building locomotive chassis and I use jig axles and the coupling rods to position the hornblocks. However, the coupling rods almost always need to be reamed out a little to accommodate Slaters crankpin bearings. I suppose the answer is to use jig axles with ends turned to the same diameter as Slaters bearings so that the rods can be adjusted before trying to fit them.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

The kit is designed with 3 point compensation, Dave just chose not to use it. Slater's crankpin system does cause problems when the nuts are tightened because the bush is a rather sloppy fit on the screw thread. I back them off a bit and secure with loctite.

[Kenton]

 

Why are the holes in the connecting rods on every kit, no matter who the desiger/manufacturer is, made too small for Slaters bushes?

 

 

Because you can always make a hole bigger, but making one smaller is beyond the skill of any builder.

[Simond]

I tap both wheel and Slaters bush 10BA.

 

If the wheel does not have a counterbore, I countersink it, and then Araldite a 10BA machine screw in from the rear of the wheel.

 

File a couple of flats on the flange of the bush, and retain the rods by screwing it on. Probably needs a couple of washers to space the rod out from the face of the wheel, to ensure it clears the boss. The bush can be shortened to suit the thickness of the rod, either in a lathe, or by drilling a hole in a bit of plastic of suitable thickness, popping the bush through, and holding it down on the bench to file it down.

 

This avoids a very unappealing 12BA nut on show, and any looseness in the axle bushes on the crank pins.

 

Scale crank pins are also available, but this system works, looks OK to me, and is easy to arrange even with hand tools.

 

HTH

Simon

[81A Oldoak]

I tap both wheel and Slaters bush 10BA.

 

If the wheel does not have a counterbore, I countersink it, and then Araldite a 10BA machine screw in from the rear of the wheel.

 

File a couple of flats on the flange of the bush, and retain the rods by screwing it on. Probably needs a couple of washers to space the rod out from the face of the wheel, to ensure it clears the boss. The bush can be shortened to suit the thickness of the rod, either in a lathe, or by drilling a hole in a bit of plastic of suitable thickness, popping the bush through, and holding it down on the bench to file it down.

 

This avoids a very unappealing 12BA nut on show, and any looseness in the axle bushes on the crank pins.

 

Scale crank pins are also available, but this system works, looks OK to me, and is easy to arrange even with hand tools.

 

HTH

Simon

Photo please.

[Simond]

Hi Chris

 

Can do - is it "urgent", or "when I next build a loco"?

 

I should say that with three loco kits in the cupboard, and the baseboards still not started, it might be a wee while before the latter, but here's a view of an assembled one - rear axle of my King, in cruel close-up.

 

If it's urgent, I can take something to bits and post a couple of pix, later in the week.

 

Best

Simon