0 gauge wagon and problem with fitting axle bearings

[Ben Alder]

I hope someone can offer advice here - I am building two 7mm Lochgorm HR fish wagons as an obligement to a modeller whose dexterity is now limited and have come across a problem I have never met in any 4mm work- the bearings for the axles are too small for the opening in the etch and also the distance between them allows far too much lateral slop if the bearings are fixed to the w iron as is usual. Any thoughts on how to get round this problem would be welcome - I have never worked in this scale before, although I have built one or two 4mm Lochgorm wagons and have not encountered this in that scale. Couple of photos attached to show what I am up against.

 

 

Bearing placed in behind to show the discrepancy.

 

 

 

This shows the position required to get a good running fit- surely not what should be done.

 

 

 

 

[Spitfire2865]

It looks like someone was lazy and didnt check if the resized artwork still worked.

Its definitely an enlarged 4mm etch artwork, but without the corrections needed.

If its possible for you to maybe turn up in a laithe some sleeves for the bearings, that might work. Have a lip big enough to keep the bearing at the right distance and take up the slop.

If thats not possible, Maybe knock something up from plasticcard to do the same?

[RexAshton]

You could try sweating some brass tube into the w irons. File it flush on each side and drill to suit the bearings. Use brass washers to pack between the flange of the bearing and the inside face of the w iron to get the correct spacing. It's not an unusual problem and I've had to pack bearings on 4mm wagons before now - old Jidenco for example.

[hmrspaul]

This is normal in 7mm, just don't push the bearing fully into the axlebox is the usual lazy way around the problem.

 

Paul

[orford]

Surely the idea is to solder (preferably) or glue the (presumably white metal) axleboxes to the W-Irons first and then fit the bearings into the holes in the axleboxes? That's the way I've always done it in O Gauge anyway. The axleboxes hold the wheelsets in place, not the W-Irons.

[Kenton]

could add a brass (or even plasticard) shim to the inside of the W-iron drilled out to take the bearing. Many wagon kits and even loco kits have excessive slop in the wheel set often requiring some padding with washers. This wasn't some sort of attempt at springing by any chance with a stiff wire pressing down on the bearing with some float in the W-iron?

[Grovenor]

Surely the idea is to solder (preferably) or glue the (presumably white metal) axleboxes to the W-Irons first and then fit the bearings into the holes in the axleboxes? That's the way I've always done it in O Gauge anyway. The axleboxes hold the wheelsets in place, not the W-Irons.

That will be OK if the axleboxes have a flange to locate in the W-iron and the bearing hole is concentric with it. Maybe a lot to expect with whitemetal castings. In 4mm it is normal to locate the bearings in the W-iron and for the axlebox to be cosmetic.

Regards

[Ben Alder]

That will be OK if the axleboxes have a flange to locate in the W-iron and the bearing hole is concentric with it. Maybe a lot to expect with whitemetal castings. In 4mm it is normal to locate the bearings in the W-iron and for the axlebox to be cosmetic.

Regards

 

Thanks all for your input - appreciated. I'll no doubt cobble something together but I must confess I find the DIY aspect of such an important part of the build a bit strange - 00 is usually straightforward in these matters. Here is a shot of the underframe with axle box sitting on it. Not a lot of help provided in centreing it  on either the casting or W iron. There is no springing designed in, just the rocking W irons for one set of wheels. The etch has Alastair Wright's name on it, so presumably has its origins in his 5522 range, some of which passed on to Lochgorm Kits.

 

[Donw]

If the W irons are brass a touch of solder should fix the bearing in place. However those W irons have an excessively large hole normally you just use a broach to allow the bearing to slide in. Then when the axle box is added a bit of adhesive should hold the axlebox bearing and w iron all in place. Some brass washers or bits of scrap drilled between the bearing and the W iron could be the easiest solution 

With Plastic W irons and axleboxes  I find it can be awkward, sometimes the easiest way is to set the solebars in a fraction to take up the play (wagons run best with just enough side play to run freely helps stop buffer locking. You could at a pinch bend the brass W irons in as long as it doesn't show too much. Incidentally I like to use the Haywood blackened wheels which have a closed end to the bearing. 

The rocking W iron was the common method in 4 mm when I was modelling in EM. In 0 gauge most people didn't bother. The extra weight in the wagons (added in the case of plastic ones) was enough to provide good roadholding providing the chassis is built flat and you are not one of those who seem to expect wagons to be able to climb over a sleeper left on the rail.

With Hindsight it would have been best to fix a bit of brass to the w Irons and carefully drill to the right size while they were still flat. In case you have any more to build.

Don

[steves17]

This isn't a wagon project but I didn't feel it was worth starting a new thread for a similar sort of problem I'm having. In a nut shell this is the first thing i've built in O gauge and i'm not quite sure how to proceed. I'm used to crude 'drop in' 00 wheels that can by taken out and put back in on a whim, not these massively long bearings. 

Would I be best to secure them, the white metal axel boxes and W irons and complete the brake rigging before final cleaning and painting painting or after? The Roxey Mouldings kit I assumed came with compensation units, as that is what is supplied in the 4mm equivalents but then I found that the instructions mention that they are available separately (though I can not see them on the website). Do I actually need them for an O gauge kit with a 15ft wheelbase or are they mostly superfluous?  

This is actually the first kit that i've ever built up to this stage as due to accumulative beginners problems I gave up on the 4mm equivalents but up to now I thought I was going to make this new attempt without stumbling on a hurdle. I basically know very little about the world of O gauge so advice would be appreciated.

 

Regards

Steve

[MarcD]

I think I might be able to add to this one. I stand to be corrected but your using Haywoods wheels not slaters? The haywoods bearings are smaller than those used by slaters. Did the kit recomend a wheel manufacturer? we nornally recomend a wheel that best fits kit. For most of our kits it doesn't matter which wheel you fit but in some it does really matter.

 

Marc 

[steves17]

Sorry should of been more specific.

The bag doesn't say but they're these ones.

 

http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/618/7w003p-3ft-7in-mansell-coach-wheels-two-axle-pack/

 

I drilled quite far into the whitemetal axle boxes, was a little worried I'de poke through in the end but going steady I can get the 'top hat' bearings all the way in now. To be honest I was just taken by surprise how far the axle sticks out past the chassis fret as it seems overkill to me and brings things to the point where removing the wheels out at a later point would be unnecessarily difficult.

Reading some model books up further I think i'll be alright if I set the wheels, brakes etc now to get the remaining soldering out of the way and just cover up and hand brush the underside when I come to do that point.

 

Ta

Edited June 14, 2017 by steves17