Where is "Bowling" and or what kind of yard/terminal is it?

[imt]

I have an interest in railways in and around Inverness, and have acquired a number of working time tables. Specifically I am looking at WTT of Freight Trains Section C 4 May/4 October 1970.  In analysing the traffic beyond Inverness I find that a freight train ran between Invergordon and Bowling - one in each direction daily SX indicated as Q - runs when required.  The train leaves Invergordon at 20:20, I assume from the Distillery.  I can find only a station in Dunbartonshire and a goods yard in Bradford - neither of which seem likely candidates.  I could put up a photocopy of the WTT sheets - but I don't think they help much.  The train in traceable through Perth but vanishes off the WTT at Greenhill, and I have no other timetables to look at (I think I would need Section D).  It cannot be that far, since it is recorded on the return leg as leaving Bowling at 23:10 and arriving at Greenhill Lower 00:09

 

Can anybody around here help?

[DavidLong]

I have an interest in railways in and around Inverness, and have acquired a number of working time tables. Specifically I am looking at WTT of Freight Trains Section C 4 May/4 October 1970.  In analysing the traffic beyond Inverness I find that a freight train ran between Invergordon and Bowling - one in each direction daily SX indicated as Q - runs when required.  The train leaves Invergordon at 20:20, I assume from the Distillery.  I can find only a station in Dunbartonshire and a goods yard in Bradford - neither of which seem likely candidates.  I could put up a photocopy of the WTT sheets - but I don't think they help much.  The train in traceable through Perth but vanishes off the WTT at Greenhill, and I have no other timetables to look at (I think I would need Section D).  It cannot be that far, since it is recorded on the return leg as leaving Bowling at 23:10 and arriving at Greenhill Lower 00:09

 

Can anybody around here help?

If it is the one that I think it is and not the place in Bradford, then it is on the north bank of the Clyde between Glasgow and Dumbarton. Seems to be the most likely based on your other information.

 

David

[Bon Accord]

The Bowling you found in Dunbartonshire would be correct, as it had a rail connected Esso oil depot served by a couple of tanker jetties on the River Clyde. I suspect the WTT times are from the following day, as there's no way a freight train would make it from Invergordon to Bowling in less than 3 hours.

As well as the distillery, Invergordon also had an aluminium smelter and an Admiralty fuel depot until the early 80s, all three of which would have been a recipient of oil traffic.

[imt]

Thank you both.  Obviously too much whisky and not enough thought.  I can see now why there would be a connection between what I just thought of as Glasgow suburban station and Invergordon.  Its not that they are a load of drunks in Bowling requiring trainloads of booze, its fuel supplies going the other way!  This also explains now why there are mentions of the Invergordon and Glenmorangie distilleries on other trains but not this one.  By the way - I obviously explained badly: the UP train leaves Invergordon at 20.20, the DOWN train leaves Bowling at 23.10.  Journey time is around 9 hours.

 

Thank you again.

[Ian Smeeton]

Sounds about riight.

 

I am sure that Bowling was about three hours behind everyone else!

 

Regards

 

Ian

[scottishlocos]

Guys

 

The stopover at Greenhill may have been for Aluminium products as there was a plant in the Falkirk area at Bainsford which was a rolling mill this plant lasted as late as 2005 but I think lost its railway connection in the 80's.

 

This also reminds me of a good old railway joke "hello can I have a single from Bowling to Bat and Ball please?"

 

Dave

[Guest 40-something]

Sounds about riight.

 

I am sure that Bowling was about three hours behind everyone else!

 

Regards

 

Ian

Still is!

[imt]

Thanks for the joke - I hadn't realised there was such an oddly named station in Sevenoaks.  I have looked it up on dear old Google now and see how it came about.

 

The aluminium connection seems quite possible too.  I wish there was an easy way to find out what freight flowed from a to b on the railways.

 

Thanks for your help here - I have put up another query on another freight topic.

[Fat Controller]

Thanks for the joke - I hadn't realised there was such an oddly named station in Sevenoaks.  I have looked it up on dear old Google now and see how it came about.

 

The aluminium connection seems quite possible too.  I wish there was an easy way to find out what freight flowed from a to b on the railways.

 

Thanks for your help here - I have put up another query on another freight topic.

There have been so many different flows between different points over the years that identifying them from a WTT entry will require a degree of detective work. Apart from individuals with knowledge of one or other terminal, and its associated industries, other sources might include photographic evidence of stock used, as well as looking through older 'Baker' atlases (which would work for from the 1970s onwards), and seeking out the 'Freight Only' series by Michael Rhodes and Paul Shannon, the latter's series 'Railfreight since 1968' and David Ratcliffe's (and others) various works of wagon photos. Quite often, terminals have been re-purposed for other traffic; as domestic coal traffic fell, for example, some terminals began handling aggregates.

[imt]

There have been so many different flows between different points over the years that identifying them from a WTT entry will require a degree of detective work. Apart from individuals with knowledge of one or other terminal, and its associated industries, other sources might include photographic evidence of stock used, as well as looking through older 'Baker' atlases (which would work for from the 1970s onwards), and seeking out the 'Freight Only' series by Michael Rhodes and Paul Shannon, the latter's series 'Railfreight since 1968' and David Ratcliffe's (and others) various works of wagon photos. Quite often, terminals have been re-purposed for other traffic; as domestic coal traffic fell, for example, some terminals began handling aggregates.

 

This is all most helpful, and I have thanked you for some of this in another thread. Obviously this is a huge subject, and will provide many happy (and sometimes frustrating) hours of search.

[davefrk]

Other possible traffic could have been whisky in barrels as there are/were a number of bonded warehouses and bottling plants around Bowling, Dumbarton and surrounding areas.

 

Dave Franks.

[hmrspaul]

This is Esso Bowling http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essobowling

 

Paul

[darrel]

The Hornby sentinal is perfect for a model of bowling just needs a repaint.

[hmrspaul]

The Hornby sentinal is perfect for a model of bowling just needs a repaint.

Not really, just some rewriting and a moved logo. http://www.ehattons.com/60186/Hornby_R3179_Class_4wDM_0_4_0_Sentinel_Shunter_in_ESSO_Bitumen_Plymouth_red/StockDetail.aspx

 

That pink is the same colour in real life! http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/essobowling/e18fc3e3

 

Paul

 

 

 

Paul

[scottishlocos]

Guys

 

I have spoken to a few folks on Inverness TMD page they have confirmed that the oil was for the distillery and that the smelter used LPG which would have been delivered in pressurized tanks.

I reckon the MOD site was supplied by ship by this point I think during the war it may have been supplied by rail.

Still have no idea why this oil went from Bowling and not Grangemouth

 

Dave

[griffgriff]

The Hornby sentinal is perfect for a model of bowling just needs a repaint.

Not sure it does... I think the prototype replicates the red plastic finish rather well

[imt]

Guys

 

I have spoken to a few folks on Inverness TMD page they have confirmed that the oil was for the distillery and that the smelter used LPG which would have been delivered in pressurized tanks.

I reckon the MOD site was supplied by ship by this point I think during the war it may have been supplied by rail.

Still have no idea why this oil went from Bowling and not Grangemouth

 

Dave

 

Thank you for that information.  As the OP I am not sure what the people wittering on about Hornby models are doing here - I have to keep logging in and ignoring them to see if anything sensible has been added so I missed your post until now.

 

I was completely thrown by Bowling (no pun intended!) but I am told it was an Esso site - maybe that's why?  Grangemouth = BP?  Thanks for the LPG - was that transferred by rail?  Is the site you got this from available to people like me?

[imt]

Other possible traffic could have been whisky in barrels as there are/were a number of bonded warehouses and bottling plants around Bowling, Dumbarton and surrounding areas.

 

Dave Franks.

 

Thanks for the suggestion.  Were there rail sidings into these places, or was the transfer by road.  I have been unable to get any idea of how big the yard at Bowling was - probably just a couple of sidings.  Anyone know?

[flubrush]

Thanks for the suggestion.  Were there rail sidings into these places, or was the transfer by road.  I have been unable to get any idea of how big the yard at Bowling was - probably just a couple of sidings.  Anyone know?

 

I suspect that a lot of the whisky traffic might have been by road, certainly in BR times.

 

Bowling was quite an important harbour since it was the western end of the Forth and Clyde canal and was the connection to the navigable part of the Clyde and ocean going shipping long before the Clyde was dredged to allow this shipping access to Glasgow.  It pre-dated the railway age but the railways provided quite a complex yard around the harbour.  The following URLs point to 25inch OS maps of Bowling in <LNER/LMS times with the LNER (NB) having the larger share of the sidings.

 

http://maps.nls.uk/view/82874289

http://maps.nls.uk/view/82874310

 

The oil discharge point is obvious to the west of Bowling with sidings running parallel to the NB/LNER main line.   I have memories in the 1950s of the oil sidings being much longer and running parallel to the NB main line towards Milton and Dumbuck.

 

Jim.

[imt]

The following URLs point to 25inch OS maps of Bowling in <LNER/LMS times with the LNER (NB) having the larger share of the sidings.

 

http://maps.nls.uk/view/82874289

http://maps.nls.uk/view/82874310

 

The oil discharge point is obvious to the west of Bowling with sidings running parallel to the NB/LNER main line.   I have memories in the 1950s of the oil sidings being much longer and running parallel to the NB main line towards Milton and Dumbuck.

 

Jim.

 

Thank you for the maps and additional recollections.  It's so sad that much of this history is disappearing and there seem to be few current sources to tap for it.  This has all sprung from my trying to find out about the kinds of goods and materials flowing through Inverness and northwards in the late 60's.  

[Fat Controller]

Apart from oil traffic, didn't Bowling also have connections for some military/ naval facilities, probably installed during WW2?

Regarding the whisky traffic for blending, I believe it was normally carried in closed vans with a Customs seal on the doors, until tank containers supplanted them. The casks sometimes seen been carried in open wagons are either empties from the blending plants, or 'new' (normally second-hand sherry casks); HMRC would be loath to have full barrels carried in such a fashion.

[hmrspaul]

Apart from oil traffic, didn't Bowling also have connections for some military/ naval facilities, probably installed during WW2?

Regarding the whisky traffic for blending, I believe it was normally carried in closed vans with a Customs seal on the doors, until tank containers supplanted them. The casks sometimes seen been carried in open wagons are either empties from the blending plants, or 'new' (normally second-hand sherry casks); HMRC would be loath to have full barrels carried in such a fashion.

The Transport Age article on whisky traffic suggests a lot was carried in open merchandise wagons.

 

Paul

[imt]

Apart from oil traffic, didn't Bowling also have connections for some military/ naval facilities, probably installed during WW2?

 

 

Maybe you are thinking of this?  http://www.secretscotland.org.uk/index.php/Secrets/RosneathNavalBase or maybe this http://www.secretscotland.org.uk/index.php/Secrets/FinnartOceanTerminal

[Talltim]

This also reminds me of a good old railway joke "hello can I have a single from Bowling to Bat and Ball please?"

 

Dave

How do I get to the Isle of Dogs?

Catch a train to Barking and change.

[Zomboid]

Thanks for the joke - I hadn't realised there was such an oddly named station in Sevenoaks. I have looked it up on dear old Google now and see how it came about.

 

The aluminium connection seems quite possible too. I wish there was an easy way to find out what freight flowed from a to b on the railways.

 

Thanks for your help here - I have put up another query on another freight topic.

I think you can also go from Four Oaks to Three Oaks via Sevenoaks if you so wish.