GN Cl313 emus

[PenrithBeacon]

I spent an excellent three hours or so at Brookmans Park this afternoon until an approaching thunderstorm drove me back into the car. One thing I noticed however is that the Cl313 emus are looking decidedly tatty in their half First and half GN liveries. Some of them have clearly had an orbital sander taken to them to remove all last traces of First Capital Connect branding. Is it the intention to re-livery these units are they going to be left to moulder their last few years away before the scrapman?

 

Also all GN emus I saw were externally dirty. This is unusual at least in the summer months on the current railway. Does GN have a problem here with keeping its stock clean?

 

Regards

[50A55B]

I spent an excellent three hours or so at Brookmans Park this afternoon until an approaching thunderstorm drove me back into the car. One thing I noticed however is that the Cl313 emus are looking decidedly tatty in their half First and half GN liveries. Some of them have clearly had an orbital sander taken to them to remove all last traces of First Capital Connect branding. Is it the intention to re-livery these units are they going to be left to moulder their last few years away before the scrapman?

Also all GN emus I saw were externally dirty. This is unusual at least in the summer months on the current railway. Does GN have a problem here with keeping its stock clean?

Regards

I think the orbital sander look is the result of graffiti removal, although they are looking down at heel in general. GN in general seems to be going to seed, I travelled in the 1st class section of a 317 between Stevenage and Peterborough on Saturday and it was dirty and falling to pieces in places. Not a good advert.

[PenrithBeacon]

I've watched the video a couple of times now and I've come to the conclusion that the units are being filled and rubbed down prior repainting. The same seems to be happening to those 317 units not already in the new livery.

 

Perhaps I ought to have watched the video before posting!

 

As far as the cleaning issue goes, the sides are reasonably clean but the fronts seem to have been forgotten.

 

Regards

[John M Upton]

It's the FCC vinyls that are the main problem, they are still attached long after their shelf life and as a result have been heavily damaged by a combination of carriage washers, wear and tear and the biggest problem in that part of the world, graffiti morons.  The latter when removed from properly painted body sides leaves little if any mark but getting it off vinyl leaves the mess you see on a lot of GN's still FCC vinyled stock.

 

As the 313's are set to be replaced from next year by six car Class 700 derivatives then repainting is not going to happen until they get reallocated somewhere else, be it the scrappy, Northern Rail (complete guess, they are after all the national depository for unwanted clapped out rolling stock lately!) and Southern to add to their collection of ones still earning a crust in far better external condition along the Sussex Coast. 

[jonny777]

I suppose the 313s are allowed to be a bit worn down, given that most celebrate their 40th birthday this year.

 

I remember taking a special trip to Welwyn Garden City late in 1976 just to ride on one. They were an enormous improvement at the time from 31-hauled non vestibule stock or pairs of 105s.

['CHARD]

As the 313's are set to be replaced from next year by six car Class 700 derivatives then repainting is not going to happen until they get reallocated somewhere else, be it the scrappy, Northern Rail (complete guess, they are after all the national depository for unwanted clapped out rolling stock lately!) and Southern to add to their collection of ones still earning a crust in far better external condition along the Sussex Coast. 

 

They aren't planned to go to Northern.  But nothing's impossible if enough schemes and programmes go tits-up!

[keefer]

I suppose the 313s are allowed to be a bit worn down, given that most celebrate their 40th birthday this year.

 

I remember taking a special trip to Welwyn Garden City late in 1976 just to ride on one. They were an enormous improvement at the time from 31-hauled non vestibule stock or pairs of 105s.

There are a couple of YouTube videos about the last diesel hauled suburban trains to Moorgate and Broad Street. When the train gets to (I think) Welwyn to run round, there are rows of brand new 313s parked up ready to enter service

 

EDIT: It was Hertford North, near the start of this video (to Broad St) and at the end of the pt 1 video (to Moorgate)

http://youtu.be/KvadOyyRM3s

[Karhedron]

They are 40 years old but I have no idea what condition they are in electrically or mechanically. Presumably the aluminium bodyshells mean rust is less of a problem than on steel-built units but beyond that, anything is possible. They are contemporary with the HSTs which are now entering their twilight years it would seem. I would hazard a guess that a major refurb is unlikely to be cost effective so they will probably soldier on being patched up until they are no longer economical to run.

['CHARD]

These units still have a steel underframe, prone to tinworm, and spares are getting harder to predict - other PEPs like the MerseyRail fleet are decidedly hand-to-mouth with many components, and the propulsion technology is well and truly last year's model.

 

You would wonder what operator would be willing to pay non-capital rental for these once they are displaced, and indeed what Eversholt could charge realistically for a fully depreciated asset, to make it competitive with other soon-to-be spare fleets from the Mk3 bodyshell stable.

[Zomboid]

The whole GN/Thameslink outfit seems very bargain basement to me. No attempt at branding and their trains are invariably very tatty. They're obviously just slowly sinking until the 700s show up, but will they care much after?

[PenrithBeacon]

These units still have a steel underframe, prone to tinworm

 

...

Interesting, I thought the bodies were of integral construction or is the body pan made of steel with an aluminium superstructure? If so they could be prone to electrolytic corrosion, but surely the engineers at Derby would have taken precautions?

 

Regards

[Zomboid]

Interesting, I thought the bodies were of integral construction or is the body pan made of steel with an aluminium superstructure? If so they could be prone to electrolytic corrosion, but surely the engineers at Derby would have taken precautions?

 

Regards

To be fair, these units aren't far off 40 years old, which is pretty much the maximum that would have been hoped for. The fact that they're getting a bit worn out now is no discredit to their designers.

[phil-b259]

The whole GN/Thameslink outfit seems very bargain basement to me. No attempt at branding and their trains are invariably very tatty. They're obviously just slowly sinking until the 700s show up, but will they care much after?

That is mainly for two reasons

 

Firstly the 'franchise' is not a franchise - it's a management contract let by the DfT to tide things over until all the Thameslink works are finished. As such there is little incentive to do much with the current stock - most of which is being renewed over the next year.

 

Secondly it's a short term contract - when Thameslink is finished the DfT intend to re-let the franchise on 'propper' terms. This is expected to be a profitable exercise for the department with brand new stock and newly rebuilt stations meaning they can expect a high premium from bidders, particularly if they decide to seperated out Southern services (or transfer southlondon metro services to TfL)

[david.hill64]

Interesting, I thought the bodies were of integral construction or is the body pan made of steel with an aluminium superstructure? If so they could be prone to electrolytic corrosion, but surely the engineers at Derby would have taken precautions?

 

Regards

The bodies are aluminium cladding over a steel frame. Rot caused by galvanic corrosion was well in evidence 20 years ago, so Eversholt had a programme of repairs and remedial work when the units were going through C6 overhauls then. The fact that they have survived another 20 years shows the value of that programme of work. I think in fairness to the designers, 40 years ago engineers were not so aware of the problems of mating aluminium and iron.

[Christopher125]

As the 313's are set to be replaced from next year by six car Class 700 derivatives then repainting is not going to happen until they get reallocated somewhere else, be it the scrappy, Northern Rail (complete guess, they are after all the national depository for unwanted clapped out rolling stock lately!) and Southern to add to their collection of ones still earning a crust in far better external condition along the Sussex Coast. 

 

Alas the 717s won't enter traffic until the back end of 2018, so 313s will be around for a few more years - - http://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/2016/06/08/new-govia-thameslink-railway-trains-to-be-class-717s