'CHARD Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 The wings were made near Chester I think, and shipped to somewhere in France to be attached to the fuselage. Not sure if that's still the case. Broughton? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted July 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2016 The idea is not new and has been used by train manufacturers for many years. In some ways it really took hold in railways with a transition from steam to diesel and electric traction. Locomotive manufacture went from a process where the "manufacturer" did actually manufacture a locomotive to one where often they manufactured certain components but acted as a packager to produce a locomotive using an OEM supplied engine, electrical package, control systems etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Who has built something is misleading. And it isn't a new idea. Look at the rats, engine is a European design, electrics from AEI, brakes and boiler from yet another private company, all put together in a BR designed body at derby. What matters is where the value of what is in that product goes and where the jobs to supply it go. In the case of the rats, most of that would have been in the engine (built in barrow under licence from sulzer and the electrics from AEI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Broughton? Yep, and still there. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 All subs built at Barrow are made from parts worldwide but put together by a very skilled workforce who are closely monitored by the MOD and the navy,the captain of said sub is on site from the beginning and takes a great interest on what goes on .This is the way to build a superb piece of ordinance that are genuinely a major part of our defence,but think that CAF are just building an assembly plant but who cares as long as the units are on time and run properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Can we get back towards the topic subject matter please and steer around political issues? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Absolutely, and I can't help wondering where this logistics centre/ assembly plant is likely to be. Part of me says somewhere like Healey Mills would be a sensible location. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Plymouth, then. Or Llandrindod Wells. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 18, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2016 Absolutely, and I can't help wondering where this logistics centre/ assembly plant is likely to be. Part of me says somewhere like Healey Mills would be a sensible location. I think we need to think large redundant/under occupied site alongside a railway line which is not too well sited for turning into a great big housing estate. So Healey Mills sound logical, as does Tyne Yard, Margam or even Crewe. Judging by the way the former MetCamm premises in Birmingham went in its final years you don't need experienced staff to do complex assembly working on modern trains - you just teach them how to do repetitive assembly jobs using jigs etc in order to fit out semi-finished imported body shells which just need the interior trim added. Bit different with powered vehicles of course but greenfield site rail vehicle assembly plants seem to be in vogue so not too difficult to find one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) One of the growing areas in UK rolling stock provision is total care, i.e. providing a maintenance contract rather than just building the things (think of how all Voyagers for the two TOCs are maintained by Bombardier at Central River(s?) and the 185s are maintained by Siemens) One of the issues for CAF when bidding was that they couldn't offer this and I gather were unwilling to considering it. Maybe this announcement is part of a realisation that they now have enough critical mass of orders in the UK to make it worthwhile and while they are doing so they might as well combine the facilities with a sticker application workshop? Edited July 18, 2016 by Talltim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted July 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2016 Nowadays a lot of equipment suppliers business model is based on subsidising intial asset aquisition in order to make their profit from total care packages, or alternatively by applying a "power by the hour" leasing approach. American engine manufacturers were into the concept of virtually giving engines away and then making $$$$$$'s out of the through life support package decades ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I may well be wrong, but wasn't there some mention a few weeks back that CAF would be using Alstom's new facility up in Widnes for some of its support, and Alstom mentioned at the time that the facility would be 'flexible' to allow for possible rolling stock manufacture. It's not rail connected, but realistically it doesn't have to be. Not saying this will be the case thought. Wild Boar Fell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 If they are going for after care, and with the majority of their products almost passing by, the site of the old healey mills yard would be perfect for this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
modfather Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 <mess room joke> What like the IEP/AT300s which are British built because there is a plant up Newton Aycliffe way which bolts the handrails on! <mess room joke> They are welded into the body shell, try again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted July 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) . Edited November 12, 2016 by 4630 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 If it's about a lifetime care package, then Healey Mills only makes sense if the Trans Pennine electrification goes ahead in time, as most/all of the Northern EMU order will operate on the Lancs side of the pennines. Even then they'd have to run via Standedge, which I believe won't be a regular Northern route. So for a maintenance facility I'd expect it to be in the Manchester area. If its just an assembly plant though, HM seems as good as any. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Andy W Posted July 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 19, 2016 Doesn't a large part of Healey Mills yard flood every few winters? I've certainly seen pictures of the yard mostly under water, and I'm pretty sure BR built it on the River Calder's flood plain.. As a yard that's not so terrible as stock can be moved while river levels are rising but before the place is actually flooded. An assembly and maintenance plant using lots of power tools is another matter and would require expensive flood protection if they hope to insure it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 If it's about a lifetime care package, then Healey Mills only makes sense if the Trans Pennine electrification goes ahead in time, as most/all of the Northern EMU order will operate on the Lancs side of the pennines. Even then they'd have to run via Standedge, which I believe won't be a regular Northern route. So for a maintenance facility I'd expect it to be in the Manchester area. If its just an assembly plant though, HM seems as good as any. All of the above sounds reasonable to me; it is worth noting that Alstom has a maintenance partnership with CAF for the new Caledonian Sleepers, and could conceivably maintain new EMUs at Longsight once the 323s have migrated to Soho, by 2018. The new DMUs are less Manchester-centric in their operation though, it will be interesting to see how Neville Hill is developed to support more activity. [in a parallel universe, I would pull my DMUs out of NL ahead of its IEP capacity constraints, and have a new super-depot at HM, supported by a servicing facility in Sheffield.] 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Airbus planes were always built in a similar manner, though I think the reasons historically were political. The wings were made near Chester I think, and shipped to somewhere in France to be attached to the fuselage. Not sure if that's still the case. Yes, Airbus in Broughton - visible from the North Wales main line just west of the former Mold Junction. On passing yesterday I also observed a wing sitting on or near a barge for shipment to France. If the "City in the Sky" programme is still on iPlayer it shows large pieces of Airbus being transported through a small French town on the way for final assembly. If Airbus can still be competitive while doing seemingly extravagant things like that, it shows how little transport costs influence production of high-value equipment. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Yes, Airbus in Broughton - visible from the North Wales main line just west of the former Mold Junction. On passing yesterday I also observed a wing sitting on or near a barge for shipment to France. If the "City in the Sky" programme is still on iPlayer it shows large pieces of Airbus being transported through a small French town on the way for final assembly. If Airbus can still be competitive while doing seemingly extravagant things like that, it shows how little transport costs influence production of high-value equipment. Did they not transport the smaller wings by air at one point, using a propellor-driven plane of rather dated appearance? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Do Boeing build everything in the one factory? Obviously they're not the only alternative to Airbus, but they are the biggest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Do Boeing build everything in the one factory? Obviously they're not the only alternative to Airbus, but they are the biggest. A lot of Boeing's engines are built in Derby... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Do Boeing build everything in the one factory? Obviously they're not the only alternative to Airbus, but they are the biggest. I believe they use rail to transport some components between plants. The practice of 'dispersed manufacturing' came to prominence during WW2 in the UK, when the titular manufacturer took in finished assemblies from dozens of sub-contractors, who had had no involvement in aviation prior to the War. Inter-alia, these included railway and motor manufacturers, but also a lot of furniture makers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted July 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) Did they not transport the smaller wings by air at one point, using a propellor-driven plane of rather dated appearance? Apologies for the post. . Used to be the "Super Guppy" - derived from the B29 Stratofortress/Stratocruiser. Now they have some "Beluga" that are based upon an Airbus A300 airframe. More info here Boeing developed the "Dreamlifter" - a 747 based plane with a large body structure, specifically to carry large parts (more specifically, the wings that are made in Japan) to the assembly plant at Everett, north of Seattle. Cheers, Mick Edited July 19, 2016 by newbryford Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I believe they use rail to transport some components between plants. Including fuselages - wasn't a train of one or more B737 fuselages derailed a couple of years back? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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