Strange looking bogies/trucks at Zweissimmen Bahnhof

[melmerby]

Hi all

 

Whilst doing a Street View of Zweissimmen station I spotted these taken in Sept 2014

Small wheeled trucks all tied together alongside the metre gauge loading bay

 

https://goo.gl/maps/t3SpHhsnG7C2

 

I have never spotted them on the MOB train webcam footage.

Any idea what they are?

 

Keith

[chrisf]

Zweisimmen is the boundary between standard and metre gauge.  I'm guessing that they are transporter bogies to enable standard gauge wagons to run on metre gauge track.

 

Chris

[John Isherwood]

Zweisimmen is the boundary between standard and metre gauge.  I'm guessing that they are transporter bogies to enable standard gauge wagons to run on metre gauge track.

 

Chris

 

What he said - known as rollbock; one metre gauge bogie carries a single standard gauge axle - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollbock .

 

Available for 3.5mm. scale from Bemo, I believe.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[melmerby]

Zweisimmen is the boundary between standard and metre gauge.  I'm guessing that they are transporter bogies to enable standard gauge wagons to run on metre gauge track.

 

Chris

 

 

What he said - known as rollbock; one metre gauge bogie carries a single standard gauge axle - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollbock .

 

Available for 3.5mm. scale from Bemo, I believe.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Thanks for the replies

 

The only other converter wagon I have seen was on the Zillertalbahn where narrow gauge bogies carried a length of standard gauge track which the wagons were transported on.

 

Like so:

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/images/product/prod_37061.jpg

http://www.michaeltaylor.ca/ind/Convert-mt.jpg

 

Keith

Edited September 19, 2016 by melmerby

[Talltim]

They use them, with bogie wagons, on the Biere-Apples-Morges http://www.bahnbilder.de/bilder/aufgebockte-eaos-wagen-morges-am-147473.jpg

[melmerby]

They use them, with bogie wagons, on the Biere-Apples-Morges http://www.bahnbilder.de/bilder/aufgebockte-eaos-wagen-morges-am-147473.jpg

Biere-Apples-Morges sounds like some sort of French funny.

 

e.g Drink beer, eat apples and end up in the morgue!

 

Keith

[Talltim]

Here's the bit that sends you to the Morges

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/497406/

[Nearholmer]

In case the OP isn't already aware, the "bit of standard gauge track on two bogies" version, a rollwagen, as opposed to rollbocke, was used in GB, on the Leek & Manifold valley Light Railway, to port SG wagons over 30" gauge track.

 

Archive film of it all here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DU5JdLg-Oao and here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dWZbZGGnE6E (image quality on the second one is stunningly good).

 

There were a few other, very obscure, instances of SG on NG in GB too, but not, I think, on common-carrier public railways.

 

Kevin

Edited September 20, 2016 by Nearholmer

[melmerby]

In case the OP isn't already aware, the "bit of standard gauge track on two bogies" version, a rollwagen, as opposed to rollbocke, was used in GB, on the Leek & Manifold valley Light Railway, to port SG wagons over 30" gauge track.

 

Archive film of it all here

and here

(image quality on the second one is stunningly good).

 

There were a few other, very obscure, instances of SG on NG in GB too, but not, I think, on common-carrier public railways.

 

Kevin

I notice on the second one at 3:36 a bit of SG track at the end of a siding, presumably to "park" a wagon when not being transported.

 

Keith

[Talltim]

I notice on the second one at 3:36 a bit of SG track at the end of a siding, presumably to "park" a wagon when not being transported.

 

Keith

I'm sure I read somewhere that they had those sections of track at each station.

 

My favourite gauge converters are the ones used to run the 1'10" locos on the Irish standard gauge (5'3") http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/22/Guinness.htm

Edited September 20, 2016 by Talltim

[Horsetan]

....My favourite gauge converters are the ones used to run the 1'10" locos on the Irish standard gauge (5'3") http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/22/Guinness.htm

 

Imagine if both were available as kits!! 

[Nearholmer]

Talltim/Melmerby

 

Yes, I think at every station, and at the dairy/creamery.

 

The L&MVLR only had a couple of 30" gauge wagons, bogie low-side, IIRC, and relied on SG wagons for all "off system" traffic.

 

Sensible and efficient idea all round, but perfected too late to be of much use in GB, where SG railways penetrated pretty well everywhere worthwhile, and a fair few places not worthwhile, very early.

 

The chap behind the engineering of the L&MVLR was Calthrop, whose ideas gained most traction in India and Egypt. I found a copy of his 1904 book "Pioneer Irrigation and Light Railways" in a dusty shop in Canterbury c40 years ago; the railway bit has, I think, been reprinted in the past 20 years, but the section on cotton-growing seems not to have found a modern audience!

 

Kevin

Edited September 20, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Talltim]

Talltim/Melmerby

 

Yes, I think at every station, and at the dairy/creamery.

 

The L&MVLR only had a couple of 30" gauge wagons, bogie low-side, IIRC, and relied on SG wagons for all "off system" traffic.

 

Sensible and efficient idea all round, but perfected too late to be of much use in GB, where SG railways penetrated pretty well everywhere worthwhile, and a fair few places not worthwhile, very early.

 

The chap behind the engineering of the L&MVLR was Calthrop, whose ideas gained most traction in India and Egypt. I found a copy of his 1904 book "Pioneer Irrigation and Light Railways" in a dusty shop in Canterbury c40 years ago; the railway bit has, I think, been reprinted in the past 20 years, but the section on cotton-growing seems not to have found a modern audience!

 

Kevin

There's a copy on Abebooks. I don't think I will be buying it... http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=10262031814&searchurl=sts%3Dt%26tn%3DPioneer%2BIrrigation%2Band%2BLight%2BRailways%26sortby%3D17

[Nearholmer]

If you want, you can read my copy, for half of that price.

 

The stuff about watering cotton plants is utterly fascinating; honest, it is! (Well, it looks fascinating; I've never actually read that bit.)

 

I can't remember what I paid for it, but it must have been 'pennies', because I was an impecunious trainee engineer at the time, and paid for it with loose change left in my pocket, after buying a sandwich for lunch.

 

K

[Peter F]

The MOB and BLS will soon be running through carriages fitted with gauge-changing bogies between Montreux and Interlaken Ost. They will run between Montreux and Zweisimmen on metre gauge tracks, and then be pushed or pulled over a converter track onto the standard gauge track from Zweisimmen through Spiez to Interlaken.

 

Peter F

[melmerby]

The MOB and BLS will soon be running through carriages fitted with gauge-changing bogies between Montreux and Interlaken Ost. They will run between Montreux and Zweisimmen on metre gauge tracks, and then be pushed or pulled over a converter track onto the standard gauge track from Zweisimmen through Spiez to Interlaken.

 

Peter F

If you look at the webcam on the MOB train you will see the considerable rebuilding of Zweissimen Bahnhof taking place to accomplish this.

https://www.webcam-4insiders.com/de/Wetter-Gstaad/102-Gstaad-Wetter-Webcam-Zweisimmen-Gstaad-Montreux.php

 

The original two BLS-sez standard gauge tracks from Spiez that bisected the metre gauge side of the station have been ripped up and the station canopies extended.

So far one converter section has been re-laid in it's place and BLS service trains are running onto it but the metre gauge trackage hasn't yet been connected to it.

It is dual gauge for the entire length of the platform. It appears from the works that the second original standard gauge platform is also to be configured thus.

The dual gauge bit has 4 rails as it is symmetrical, not three as is usual.

Coming from Spiez the standard gauge ends at a buffer stop but the metre gauge joins as if a turnout just before the end but it is fixed trackwork.*

 

Currently the MOB only has use of the west side of the station as it's platform to the east of the two central BLS tracks has been ripped up and the platforms/track are currently being rebuilt

There's plenty of other work been going on elsewhere on the MOB as it upgrades it's facilities. More passing places, more platforms etc.

 

*I wonder whether the model railway manufacturers will come up with dual gauge track/converter kit of the same pattern as this so that prototypical transfers can take place?

 

Keith

[melmerby]

I wonder what will be happenning at Interlaken as the dual gauge trains will arrive on the BLS standard gauge but the "Golden Pass" journey includes the Zentralbahn onward to Luzern?

 

I assume it will a train change as now.

 

Keith

[Swissrail]

I wonder what will be happening at Interlaken as the dual gauge trains will arrive on the BLS standard gauge but the "Golden Pass" journey includes the Zentralbahn onward to Luzern?

 

I assume it will a train change as now.

 

Keith

I believe there will be a second gauge change back down to 1000mm for the Interlaken - Luzern section.

[melmerby]

I believe there will be a second gauge change back down to 1000mm for the Interlaken - Luzern section.

Going to be a bit of a stop-start journey

Montreux - Zweissimen metre gauge, gauge change to standard (on the fly but presumably slowly), Standard gauge to Spiez, reversal, to Interlaken Ost, gauge change back to metre, Interlaken Ost - Meiringen, reversal - to Luzern.

 

Hardly an express, but it is supposed to be a panoramic trip.

 

Keith

 

Here is some of the metre gauge "Golden Pass" stock in the sidings at Interlaken Ost, presumably for the current Interlaken-Luzern part of the service:

https://goo.gl/maps/HXm6tLErTEL2

Edited January 18, 2018 by melmerby

[Chamby]

To the OP, these photo's might help, taken at Zweisimmen in 1996 showing the rollbocks in use.  The three standard gauge wagons were transferred via the metre gauge up to Lenk, then used to pick up and take away that community's rubbish. In the first photo, you can see a pole lying on the ground... this was an extended coupling that connected the standard gauge wagons to the metre gauge loco.

 

 

 

Phil

Edited January 18, 2018 by Chamby

[melmerby]

To the OP, these photo's might help, taken at Zweisimmen in 1996 showing the rollbocks in use.  The three standard gauge wagons were transferred via the metre gauge up to Lenk, then used to pick up and take away that community's rubbish. In the first photo, you can see a pole lying on the ground... this was an extended coupling that connected the standard gauge wagons to the metre gauge loco.

 

ZN96 09 rollbocks.jpg

 

Zwei 22 Gauge transfer shunting.jpg

 

Phil

Thanks for those pictures.

The first shows clearly how the gauge change takes place, with the standard gauge track higher than the metre and the wagon just lifting off the rollbock as it's wheels ride up the ramp.

 

Those ramps aren't there anymore as the standard and metre rails are now at the same height with the new track configuration, so it looks like the rollbocks are redundant.

The centre tracks are dual gauge for their entire length and more now

 

Keith

 

EDIT

A simplistic representation of the new track layout:

Edited January 19, 2018 by melmerby

[rodent279]

How are the SG wagons braked when they are on the NG bogies? Are the bogies braked, or do the wagon wheels bear on the NG wheels so that the wagon brakes can be used?

[melmerby]

How are the SG wagons braked when they are on the NG bogies? Are the bogies braked, or do the wagon wheels bear on the NG wheels so that the wagon brakes can be used?

From the pictures posted the SG wagons are just sitting on their flanges in a fixed receptacle and have no contact with the NG truck's wheels which seem to be unbraked.

So maybe it's just slowly, slowly with caution?

 

http://spannwerk.buntbahn.de/fotos/data/500/medium/IMG_3485.JPG

http://i47.servimg.com/u/f47/11/37/22/93/dsc01111.jpg

 

Some locate using the axle rather than the wheel:

http://www.bahnbilder.de/1024/200510--bruchhausen-vilsen--rollboecke-609226.jpg

 

However some do have brakes:

http://www.railroadpictures.de/bilder/D--/D---WEG/Rollbock/komprimiert/Rollbock---1.jpg

 

Keith

[eastwestdivide]

Adding to the picture, the opposite way round, a narrow-gauge EMU being delivered on standard-gauge transporter wagons:

https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/first-crowd-sourced-stadler-emu-arrives-in-bern.html

[caption]The first Worbla trainset was delivered to Bern on a standard gauge wagon

 

Metre-gauge inter-urban operator Regionalverkehr Bern-Solothurn took delivery on August 7 of the first of 14 Worbla EMUs at its depot at Worblaufen north of Bern...

Edited August 13, 2018 by eastwestdivide