A Cartoon of Helston(ish)

[Andy Keane]

I just found your thread today. I started out on a Helston layout 50 years ago but got sidetracked by careers, marriage, children etc. The track bed was there in my parents loft when we cleared their house two years ago. Lockdown has started me back at this. I really love your layout. I was using the plans from the Model Railway News of 1967. I built the engine shed but found it tiny compared to Hornby tank engines, but looking at photos I wondered if they ever got a 45xx in that shed. Will continue to follow. Would love to see the layout if you take it to an exhibition I can get to. Regds Andy

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Andy Keane

[Mulgabill]

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

Posted 17 hours ago (edited)

I just found your thread today. I started out on a Helston layout 50 years ago but got sidetracked by careers, marriage, children etc. The track bed was there in my parents loft when we cleared their house two years ago. Lockdown has started me back at this. I really love your layout. I was using the plans from the Model Railway News of 1967. I built the engine shed but found it tiny compared to Hornby tank engines, but looking at photos I wondered if they ever got a 45xx in that shed. Will continue to follow. Would love to see the layout if you take it to an exhibition I can get to. Regds Andy

 

 

Welcome to Helstonish Andy. Always good to have another regular on-board, especially

those with some knowledge of the inspiration. Your potted history so closely matches my

own, but perhaps 5 years behind.

 

Will you be sharing your progress on here? I have found it a most interesting, and enjoyable

experience. With regard to Helstonish at a show, I would have to say it's most unlikely. It was

built to be "portable", really in case we moved house, and indeed did go to the RM Web SWAG

event at Taunton. But it lacks a portable fiddle yard. and the scenic additions renders it very

difficult to extract it from it's home now. 

 

Maybe we could arrange to meet somewhere, sometime, when we're allowed. (Where are you

based?)

 

All the best

 

TONY

[Mulgabill]

For everybody else........

 

Typically of it's time, we find the bus leaving, just as there's a train arriving.

 

 

And here we see what was to become a class 25, pulling ahead to run around.

 

 

 

 

Have had to digress today and sort the fiddle yard, where some tracks were

found to be catching. Hopefully sorted now, but some pva will be required to

secure.

 

Also there have been experiments continuing re magnetic coupling of stock.

Some niggles due to inconsistent contact location, on some wagons, but a

jig has been made. Trials will continue.

 

Back with more soon, I hope.

 

TONY

Edited March 28, 2021 by Mulgabill
reposition pic

[Andy Keane]

On 28/03/2021 at 16:40, Mulgabill said:

 

 

 

 

Welcome to Helstonish Andy. Always good to have another regular on-board, especially

those with some knowledge of the inspiration. Your potted history so closely matches my

own, but perhaps 5 years behind.

 

Will you be sharing your progress on here? I have found it a most interesting, and enjoyable

experience. With regard to Helstonish at a show, I would have to say it's most unlikely. It was

built to be "portable", really in case we moved house, and indeed did go to the RM Web SWAG

event at Taunton. But it lacks a portable fiddle yard. and the scenic additions renders it very

difficult to extract it from it's home now. 

 

Maybe we could arrange to meet somewhere, sometime, when we're allowed. (Where are you

based?)

 

All the best

 

TONY

Tony

I am based near Southampton so not too far away. If we were in your area I would love to see it in the flesh and natter but would not want to be a pest. Not sure if visiting layouts in homes is a thing but Helston has been bugging me for half a century!

regards

Andy

ps - do you have one of the early 044T Dean engines on your layout with the open cab?

[Mulgabill]

22 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Tony

I am based near Southampton so not too far away. If we were in your area I would love to see it in the flesh and natter but would not want to be a pest. Not sure if visiting layouts in homes is a thing but Helston has been bugging me for half a century!

regards

Andy

ps - do you have one of the early 044T Dean engines on your layout with the open cab?

 

 

 

Andy - I don't have much in the way of GW period loco's, but I did dig out this, which is as

near as I can get to your request!

 

I must thank you, 'cos it allowed me to test out my inventory record, to know where to

locate the loco and coaches. The loco didn't want to run, and the coaches needed a good

scrub , before taking the pics. (Incidentally those coaches have Jackson coach wheels fitted, at the

moment).

 

 

 

Do let me know if you are ever in this area, and I'll do likewise if we ever get around to visiting

the mid Hants.

 

All the best

 

TONY

 

p.s. I'm going to have to remember to look at the station roof, it's either not seated, of warped.

 

[Mulgabill]

For those who want to see what lockdown hair thatch looks like.

 

Before

 

 

And after a trim.

 

 

The latter is in a possible position on the layout. However I'm already thinking about where

I might hide it behind some verdant trees. And Mk 2 could go here. Perhaps I'll put the front

/ back doors on the right way round on that one.

 

Cheers

 

TONY

 

[Andy Keane]

19 hours ago, Mulgabill said:

 

 

 

Andy - I don't have much in the way of GW period loco's, but I did dig out this, which is as

near as I can get to your request!

 

I must thank you, 'cos it allowed me to test out my inventory record, to know where to

locate the loco and coaches. The loco didn't want to run, and the coaches needed a good

scrub , before taking the pics. (Incidentally those coaches have Jackson coach wheels fitted, at the

moment).

 

 

 

Do let me know if you are ever in this area, and I'll do likewise if we ever get around to visiting

the mid Hants.

 

All the best

 

TONY

 

p.s. I'm going to have to remember to look at the station roof, it's either not seated, of warped.

 

I have been revisiting the track plans. Last time around I built the points by hand from scratch which meant I could have arbitary shapes to match the real thing. This time I am wondering if its worth the effort. I do however like large radius points and find most model railway points too sudden for my liking. So I have been looking at the Peco points and as far as I can tell the code 83 American track gives the largest radius points. Attached is a track plan based on the old 25" OS maps using the code 83 track - overall length is 18 feet which is about correct for the actual real track layout. Its not perfect but the best I can get with those points. But having never used (or even seen) this form of track I wondered if anyone has any experince of it - does it look really wrong for a GWR layout at 4mm scale? I will next make a plan using the normal code 100 stuff and see how it stacks up.

[Andy Keane]

1 hour ago, Andy Keane said:

I have been revisiting the track plans. Last time around I built the points by hand from scratch which meant I could have arbitary shapes to match the real thing. This time I am wondering if its worth the effort. I do however like large radius points and find most model railway points too sudden for my liking. So I have been looking at the Peco points and as far as I can tell the code 83 American track gives the largest radius points. Attached is a track plan based on the old 25" OS maps using the code 83 track - overall length is 18 feet which is about correct for the actual real track layout. Its not perfect but the best I can get with those points. But having never used (or even seen) this form of track I wondered if anyone has any experince of it - does it look really wrong for a GWR layout at 4mm scale? I will next make a plan using the normal code 100 stuff and see how it stacks up.

Here is the same thing in code 100 - and you can see the entrance points do not work so well - that first point is a really big radius on the real track.

[Mulgabill]

Those plans are very interesting, Andy.

 

Mine is the Peco code 100 version, and your plans are very similar to my layout. Of course,

apart from  already having the points "in stock", I was also constrained for space i.e. a room

of 12' x 7' approx. Plus the original planning permission dictated the bed should remain

usable. There was also an unbridled, pent up enthusiasm, which meant any more considered

approach, was sacrificed.

 

If I were starting again, I would certainly consider either building my own track, or at least

using Peco Bullhead. I don't know enough about code 83 to really consider it. I would also

want to check out sleeper spacings, whatever track I were to use.

 

I would also be looking to squeeze in the long "headshunt", towards the Lizard. It would be

useful for shunting / stock storage.

 

It's good that you are giving yourself time for reflection, before taking the plunge.

 

And going back to an earlier comment re fitting a prairie in Helston shed, I believe they did,

and even tried taking it out the wrong end, at least once. Indeed I think they also tried fitting

the B Set in there as well once.

 

Cheers

 

TONY

[Andy Keane]

22 hours ago, Mulgabill said:

Those plans are very interesting, Andy.

 

Mine is the Peco code 100 version, and your plans are very similar to my layout. Of course,

apart from  already having the points "in stock", I was also constrained for space i.e. a room

of 12' x 7' approx. Plus the original planning permission dictated the bed should remain

usable. There was also an unbridled, pent up enthusiasm, which meant any more considered

approach, was sacrificed.

 

If I were starting again, I would certainly consider either building my own track, or at least

using Peco Bullhead. I don't know enough about code 83 to really consider it. I would also

want to check out sleeper spacings, whatever track I were to use.

 

I would also be looking to squeeze in the long "headshunt", towards the Lizard. It would be

useful for shunting / stock storage.

 

It's good that you are giving yourself time for reflection, before taking the plunge.

 

And going back to an earlier comment re fitting a prairie in Helston shed, I believe they did,

and even tried taking it out the wrong end, at least once. Indeed I think they also tried fitting

the B Set in there as well once.

 

Cheers

 

TONY

Another consideration I am working over is the change in vertical levels to allow for the embankment at the carraige shed end. How far below the track level have you opted to place Station Road at its lowest? In my previous build I wanted to simplify the base boards so only allowed about 1.75 inches but I wonder if it is really enough. I have not been able to find any clear data for that end of the station (do you know of any photos of the embankment from the end of Station Road?). Your build seems to have quite a big drop by having the far end board sitting on a lower surface.

 

On the engine shed I notice in the book by S.C. Jenkins he says the clearances were very tight in reality and he advises allowing for this on the build - I guess by taking slight liberties with the door size. Did you build from the plans in that book? I intend to begin by building the five main buildings for Helston before I take the plunge on the track.

 

On sleeper spacings I think the book says these started of at three feet but these were presumably reduced at some point.

 

regards

Andy

Edited April 1, 2021 by Andy Keane

[Mulgabill]

3 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Another consideration I am working over is the change in vertical levels to allow for the embankment at the carraige shed end. How far below the track level have you opted to place Station Road at its lowest? In my previous build I wanted to simplify the base boards so only allowed about 1.75 inches but I wonder if it is really enough. I have not been able to find any clear data for that end of the station (do you know of any photos of the embankment from the end of Station Road?). Your build seems to have quite a big drop by having the far end board sitting on a lower surface.

 

On the engine shed I notice in the book by S.C. Jenkins he says the clearances were very tight bin reality and he advices allowing for this on the build - I guess by taking slight liberties with the door size. Did you build from the plans in that book? I intend to begin by building the five main buildings for Helston before I take the plunge on the track.

 

On sleeper spacings the book says these started of at three feet but these were presumably reduced at some point.

 

regards

Andy

 

I don't recall any pics of the embankment end, I'm afraid.

 

Memory says its high enough that a bridge would have been sufficient for a

double deck bus to pass under. Although it was somewhat overgrown the

last time I was there. On Helstonish the height difference is about 8cm at

the bottom of the goods yard road. Of course the view is accentuated by

the compression of the road length. If you can build to scale length, then 

that drop would be about right, I would have thought.

 

My engine shed was built from the 1967 magasine plans. Although, again

because of compression, I did shift the lean- to to the front, to retain some

bank South of the bridge. Otherwise all is sized to the plan.

 

The one building of mine which is not strictly accurate, is the goods shed.

This was pretty much an estimate from online pics, and is a bit larger than

it should be. Again enthusiasm overtook me, and it was built, before John

(St Enodoc) , sent me copies of the articles, from Australia.

 

Re the sleeper spacing, I was thinking more of the available RTR options.

Certainly the Code 100 is now considered too closely spaced, and many

people now separate , and manually space the sleepers. I'm not sure

where older code 75, or code 83 would sit This may have a bearing on

the suitability of the points.

 

I hope you find these comments useful, as I'm concious of the advice

of C J Freezer - "Don't model the model". I wouldn't want to exert too

much influence on your thinking.

 

And I should also say that it strikes me that i have refered to the constraints

of compression quite a few times. Whilst this is true, I have to say I am quite

happy with the compromises I made, although I did put an inbuilt additional

board joint, just beyond the crossover. So it would be possible to either

shorten the set up by about 18". Or lengthen it by ??????  Of course either

option would be dictated by a new home (not planned........ yet).

 

All the best, and keep any queries coming, as long as you want.

 

TONY

[Andy Keane]

Tony, thanks for all your input. I find it really helpful to bounce my thoughts on somebody who has been there before me.

I am going to make a start on the engine shed. I am converting the drawings by Pat English to CAD (see attached) and thence will get the walls laser cut in 3mm ply to start with before covering in approriate brick, stone and wood. Luckily I have access to a good laser cuting system so this will get the structure correct. I am thinking about the glazing bars - this is something that has vexed me in the past. I find it hard to get these right in scratch build as I am too ham fisted. I am thus lloking to see what kits I might canibalize for suitable parts. Any suggestions most welcome. For example there is a quite good GWR signal box available in card that has suitable windows in it.

regards

Andy

[Mulgabill]

38 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Tony, thanks for all your input. I find it really helpful to bounce my thoughts on somebody who has been there before me.

I am going to make a start on the engine shed. I am converting the drawings by Pat English to CAD (see attached) and thence will get the walls laser cut in 3mm ply to start with before covering in approriate brick, stone and wood. Luckily I have access to a good laser cuting system so this will get the structure correct. I am thinking about the glazing bars - this is something that has vexed me in the past. I find it hard to get these right in scratch build as I am too ham fisted. I am thus lloking to see what kits I might canibalize for suitable parts. Any suggestions most welcome. For example there is a quite good GWR signal box available in card that has suitable windows in it.

regards

Andy

 

Isn't it funny how you can forget details, until something prompts you.

 

Now this is from memory, but I have been up and had a look at mine, and I'm

pretty sure the following is correct.

 

Smart Models do industrial arched windows, but I think they had one more

row than required. But trimmed (or buried in the wall lamination), worked

fine. And I don't think I had to really compromise the aperture. Check them

out, and maybe consider making them fit into your CAD.

 

Alternatively you could try L Cut Creative, they have cut doors / windows

for the station, before. And were quite reasonable on price.

 

It does me good to have questions like that thrown at me. Shows the

brain hasn't given up, yet. Keep 'em coming.

 

TONY

 

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Mulgabill
spelling

[Andy Keane]

On 01/04/2021 at 19:42, Mulgabill said:

 

Isn't it funny how you can forget details, until something prompts you.

 

Now this is from memory, but I have been up and had a look at mine, and I'm

pretty sure the following is correct.

 

Smart Models do industrial arched windows, but I think they had one more

row than required. But trimmed (or buried in the wall lamination), worked

fine. And I don't think I had to really compromise the aperture. Check them

out, and maybe consider making them fit into your CAD.

 

Alternatively you could try L Cut Creative, they have cut doors / windows

for the station, before. And were quite reasonable on price.

 

It does me good to have questions like that thrown at me. Shows the

brain hasn't given up, yet. Keep 'em coming.

 

TONY

 

 

Tony

thanks for these leads - have been and looked - the smart models one seem to be 50% too wide so will have a go with the Lcut even though they have one pane too few in height. I agree its probablt best to adapt my CAD to suit what I can get rather than get overly worked up.

I notice you say you used a laminantion - so do you mean the walls made in two layers trapping the glazing between the layers? I had not thought of that but it sounds like a possible nice way to hold the laser cut glazing. I had been planning to fit them into the apertures directly after painting and glazing.

Do you have a preference for your outer layer to get the stone /; brick / wood efects? I have been looking at the Semi-cut Stonework card sheets by Metcalfe M0058 but this is not quite right as the Helston shed stonework was random rather than laid in courses.

regards

Andy

ps - how high is the top of the arch on your shed above the bottom of the track? I think I will go a bit over scale to be safe - also I think there are some ready made curve shed doors to be had that are bit higher than those at Helston were.

pps - i notice that Pat English says the rear of the engine shed was in concrete blocks when he drew his plans - presumably this was as a result of the incident you allude to!

Edited April 2, 2021 by Andy Keane

[Mulgabill]

OK Andy the saga continues, as, with your prompts, the memory at least

half remembers, more.

 

So easiest first. Now you mention I vaguely remember having to give some

thought to the doorway height. Mine is about 68 - 70mm at the top centre.

 

I had a ferret around and found the remainders of the Smart arch top windows.

And I remembered they were what I used in the goods shed, and are larger

than those in the engine shed.

 

I can't get into the shed to measure accurately, but I think I used L Cut

m 00 20c Industrial Windows 21mm W x 35mm H. Or possibly got him

to adjust that plan to my overall dimensions. It is well worth droping

Jacob an e-mail to ask, once you know. (I'm in the middle of trying to

draw the windows of my cottage, in inkscape, to pose a similar question ).

 

As for materials, I think it's a case of what you are most comfortable with.

Mine are generally  mount board, in 2 or 3 layers, then a layer of DAS clay,

applied to the outside, and scribed. With my skills that means it comes out

pretty random. The Station, goods shed, and engine shed, were all done

that way. BUT that didn't totally avoid some bowing, even though most of

the laminations were weighted whilst they dried overnight. Indeed I think the

station roof may have twisted a bit recently, judging by some of the photos.

So be prepared to add bracing to keep things square.

 

For completeness, the old footwarmer store is a card frame, with plasticard

brickwork applied. The Porters (wooden) messroom, is card, scribed and

painted.

 

Nothing else is strictly prototypical.

 

I did manage to create more work today, by breaking a signal post (next to

the shed)! At least it gives me the chance to put it back, upright.

 

All the best

 

TONY

[Andy Keane]

My CAD now has the roof, beams, barge boards and sofits which I am hoping can all be laser cut to create a kit of parts.

I will size the door and windows to suit what I can buy for those and also make sure I have enough headroom for a 45xx.

I am also thinking that if these are to be laser cut maybe I can use the laser to etch the stone / brick / tile patterns directly onto the 3mm ply I plan to use.

I have tried painting the walls with the stone work from a recent photo of the goods shed to test the idea.

I still have the celestory roof vent to do though.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Andy Keane

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

My CAD now has the roof, beams, barge boards and sofits which I am hoping can all be laser cut to create a kit of parts.

I will size the door and windows to suit what I can buy for those and also make sure I have enough headroom for a 45xx.

I am also thinking that if these are to be laser cut maybe I can use the laser to etch the stone / brick / tile patterns directly onto the 3mm ply I plan to use.

I have tried painting the walls with the stone work from a recent photo of the goods shed to test the idea.

I still have the celestory roof vent to do though.

I apologise in advance for teaching granny to suck (Easter) eggs...

 

When measuring for height don't forget to add the thickness of the track, underlay, etc., etc.

 

Don't ask...

[MrWolf]

You're not the only one to have had, shall we say.... clearance issues in the past @St Enodoc.  

[Andy Keane]

I have being doing archaeology and have found the original track I hand built 50 years ago! Not sure it’s worth continuing with but I do like the curves you can get this way. It makes the station throat much nicer than any layout I can get with Peco points.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Andy Keane

[Mulgabill]

9 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

I have being doing archaeology and have found the original track I hand built 50 years ago! Not sure it’s worth continuing with but I do like the curves you can get this way. It make the station throat much nicer than any layout I can get with Peco points.

 

I like the look of that, and if it was mine I'd need some very serious physical

problems to persuade me not to use it.

 

However 1 observation I would make. Handbuilt does give a better flow to the

running line, and shape of the station throat. But I think it is noticeable that,

in pics, the goods loop, and possibly run round crosssing, are formed of shorter

points. Yours, I would suggest , are long enough to be at home on the running line.

 

It's just a thought, but may have a bearing on what trackwork you decide to go with.

 

As an afterthought to your previous post, with regard shed roof vents, I think mine were from L Cut, and hence the shed windows were even more likely from them.

 

All the best

 

TONY

[Andy Keane]

The hand built track is all bullhead rail but obviously just soldered to the sleepers. The trouble is one has really to use it everywhere and it is a labour of love to build. I will mull this over while I construct the shed. I still don't have planning approval for a permanent location. Also on my digging I found a letter dated 1972 from a chap who responded to my call for help in the Railway Modeller. He had taken much interest in the branch and said: "In 1938 the locomotive would have been one of the following: 4407, 4503, 4523, 4525, 4561, 4569 or 4571. This class certainly worked the line in the period that you intend to model. In addition to the main branch locomotive, a 58xx tank, 5812 occupied the sub-shed at Helston." This is the first mention of the smaller wheeled 44xx on the line that I can recall. I wonder if this is correct.

regards

Andy

[Andy Keane]

Have had another look at the 25" OS map. As far as it goes the track radius under the entrace bridge in 00 scale looks about 4000mm, the points there about 1800-2000mm radius which is what I made by hand, but the loop points at the southern end about 1200mm on the map while I used 1500mm in building mine - so as you say the loop points should be a bit sharper than my hand made track I guess. in Peco 100 the biggest radius point is 1524mm radius if I understand their data correctly and according to the track planning tool I am using (AnyRail) and even in code 83 its 1702 mm. What I really need is a bigger radius Peco code 100 point for the entrance end. Maybe I should stick with making my own. Or maybe a mixture could be made to work. Ho hum.

(corrected measurements)

Edited April 5, 2021 by Andy Keane

[Andy Keane]

ps - on shed roof vents I have several sets from the old airfix engine shed kits that I may recycle. Also found 10 unused airfix cattle truck kits still in their boxes plus a ratio Syphon kit and three Ratio bogie bolster flat wagons, again unused. Not sure if Syphons ever got to helston though.

[Andy Keane]

Tony

rather than continue to pollute your topic I have created one of my own to record my progress and thoughts. I will clearly be following in secure footsteps though.

Regards

Andy

 

[Mulgabill]

Andy

 

Your last posts have sent me to find  my copy of The Helston Branch; Oakwood Press No 184,

by Stanley C Jenkins.

 

Do you have a copy? If not, I would recommend it, it is my go to reference.

 

Doesn't answer everything, but most things are there.

 

On 04/04/2021 at 10:03, Andy Keane said:

The hand built track is all bullhead rail but obviously just soldered to the sleepers. The trouble is one has really to use it everywhere and it is a labour of love to build. I will mull this over while I construct the shed. I still don't have planning approval for a permanent location. Also on my digging I found a letter dated 1972 from a chap who responded to my call for help in the Railway Modeller. He had taken much interest in the branch and said: "In 1938 the locomotive would have been one of the following: 4407, 4503, 4523, 4525, 4561, 4569 or 4571. This class certainly worked the line in the period that you intend to model. In addition to the main branch locomotive, a 58xx tank, 5812 occupied the sub-shed at Helston." This is the first mention of the smaller wheeled 44xx on the line that I can recall. I wonder if this is correct.

regards

Andy

 

In the above book, it quotes for 1914 a 517 class 0-4-2T 1481 and in 1921 no 1158 and 2-6-2T 4403

all as shedded at Helston.

 

For the BR period there were predominently 2-6-2Tanks, but with a variety appearing, implying from

Long Rock's allocation.

e.g.4500/ 4502/ 6/9/17/ 23/ 5/ 37/ 40/ 45/ 8/ 54/ 6/ 8/ 64/ 65/ 70/ 4/ 7/ 55/62

 

additionally in appendix 1 (some loco's) listed are 4401/ 3/ 5/ 6/ 8/ 9

 

(ironically not 7  which your man quoted)

 

 

21 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Have had another look at the 25" OS map. As far as it goes the track radius under the entrace bridge in 00 scale looks about 4000mm, the points there about 1800-2000mm radius which is what I made by hand, but the loop points at the southern end about 1200mm on the map while I used 1500mm in building mine - so as you say the loop points should be a bit sharper than my hand made track I guess. in Peco 100 the biggest radius point is 1524mm radius if I understand their data correctly and according to the track planning tool I am using (AnyRail) and even in code 83 its 1702 mm. What I really need is a bigger radius Peco code 100 point for the entrance end. Maybe I should stick with making my own. Or maybe a mixture could be made to work. Ho hum.

(corrected measurements)

 

Here I have to say my approach is to capture the overall look, rather than absolute fidelity. As

such I would look at proportions. Also we are used to tighter radii in models, than the scale

equivalent. So a large radius, can represent a rather larger prototypical figure, quite convincingly.

I would suggest the more important factor is that there is sufficient room for the loco shed area.

(To be honest, mine is a bit too constricted, hence the outbuilding at the front). Large radius points,

on the approach running lines, should help with that. As said before, smaller radius for the goods

lines, would help retain the feel of the original. 

 

But these are factors you will need to determine, as you will have to live with it for some time.

 

20 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

ps - on shed roof vents I have several sets from the old airfix engine shed kits that I may recycle. Also found 10 unused airfix cattle truck kits still in their boxes plus a ratio Syphon kit and three Ratio bogie bolster flat wagons, again unused. Not sure if Syphons ever got to helston though.

 

Personally I had assumed that Siphons would have been bound to have appeared, especially when

you include MOD specials for personel, with kit.

 

I have not entirely pinned down the appropriate hoppers for the serpentine workings, although

somebody suggested they were latterly an ex MR/LMS type. I have found no reference to the design

used as the rabbit van, so rightly or wrongly I have tended to use a fruit D. Although somebody on

here mentioned that there is a pic of an ex LNER Pidgeon Van working on the branch, which I could

see as having been purloined for that traffic, i the 50s, perhaps.

 

Any other thoughts, just ask, I'm rather enjoying having a reason to revisit my subject.

 

TONY