Tri-ang Railways.

[GoingUnderground]

This page gives some interesting arguments about the suitability of suspension bridges for rail traffic - https://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/435/what-makes-suspension-bridges-unsuitable-for-railways

 

Jim

A very useful link indeed. I think you've shown us the design inspiration for the Triang bridge. It looks very like the illustration of the Stockton & Darlington one, but with more generous towers, rectifying the problem with the prototype.

 

So, for me at least, the argument that suspension bridges and trains don't mix is well and truly debunked. Whilst the Stockton & Darlington bridge might have had problems, so have more conventional bridges, notably the Tay Bridge. Even in modern times bridge collapse isn't unknown, the Tacoma Narrows road suspension bridge, which shook itself apart in strong cross winds.

 

Well done Triang for giving us the bridge all those years ago - a very bold subject to model given its size. But Triang's bridges, starting with their original girder bridge, then the river bridge, the Grand Victorian and its cut down extension version, and finally the single span brick arch bridge and its 3 span viaduct clone always looked good, at least to me, even if they were only single track.

Edited July 25, 2018 by GoingUnderground

[BernardTPM]

The Royal Albert Bridge at Saltash is partially suspension, though the towers play no conventional in part in the suspension.The Tri-ang towers themselves could probably be used for other forms of bridges - perhaps might look good with a wrought-iron box girder structure like the original Britannia bridge over the Menai.

[Nearholmer]

Which suddenly reminded me of Chepstow http://www.victorianweb.org/technology/bridges/45.html

[Nearholmer]

Tell me to shut-up when I'm going on too much about this subject, but ......

 

Absolutely excellent website about gisclard and his bridges, several with trains. Make sure you look at both parts of the site https://www.timbresponts.fr/articles_et_publications/les_ponts_gisclard.htm

 

 

Lovely image stolen from it:

Edited July 25, 2018 by Nearholmer

[cctransuk]

Tell me to shut-up when I'm going on too much about this subject, but ......

 

Absolutely excellent website about gisclard and his bridges, several with trains. Make sure you look at both parts of the site http://www.springsidemodels.com/id153.htm

 

Lovely image stolen from it:

 

I think that we got the wrong link there !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Nearholmer]

I think you may be right.

 

Corrected!

[St Enodoc]

Tell me to shut-up when I'm going on too much about this subject, but ......

 

Absolutely excellent website about gisclard and his bridges, several with trains. Make sure you look at both parts of the site https://www.timbresponts.fr/articles_et_publications/les_ponts_gisclard.htm

 

 

Lovely image stolen from it:

I like the price details!

[robmcg]

On a completely different track, but one which may bear some relevance to the thread title,

 

question,  is the 1963 Triang-Hornby Caley Single the oldest locomotive you can still buy new, of UK models at least?  Quite scary to think that I was 12 yrs old when it was first produced, and even then I would have thought it a pretty poor model, Kitmaster did better!    But I recently bought one regardless.  It's a curious thing this enjoyment of an old model of a train from an age when trains 'raced' as in 1888 and 1895.

[RJS1977]

Talkinh of Hornby/Triang suspension bridges - I've got one going spare if anyone wants it!

[Coppercap]

On a completely different track, but one which may bear some relevance to the thread title,

 

question,  is the 1963 Triang-Hornby Caley Single the oldest locomotive you can still buy new, of UK models at least?  Quite scary to think that I was 12 yrs old when it was first produced, and even then I would have thought it a pretty poor model, Kitmaster did better!    But I recently bought one regardless.  It's a curious thing this enjoyment of an old model of a train from an age when trains 'raced' as in 1888 and 1895.

 

It's not currently on Hornby's website, so I would guess any 'new' ones would be 'new old stock'. 

[Titan]

On a completely different track, but one which may bear some relevance to the thread title,

 

question,  is the 1963 Triang-Hornby Caley Single the oldest locomotive you can still buy new, of UK models at least?  Quite scary to think that I was 12 yrs old when it was first produced, and even then I would have thought it a pretty poor model, Kitmaster did better!    But I recently bought one regardless.  It's a curious thing this enjoyment of an old model of a train from an age when trains 'raced' as in 1888 and 1895.

 

 

It's not currently on Hornby's website, so I would guess any 'new' ones would be 'new old stock'. 

 

 

Dunno if the inside framed 08 counts, unless it is considered too far removed from the 1950's Triang original.

[GoingUnderground]

Talkinh of Hornby/Triang suspension bridges - I've got one going spare if anyone wants it!

Have sent you a PM.

[GoingUnderground]

Tell me to shut-up when I'm going on too much about this subject, but ......

 

Absolutely excellent website about gisclard and his bridges, several with trains. Make sure you look at both parts of the site https://www.timbresponts.fr/articles_et_publications/les_ponts_gisclard.htm

 

 

Lovely image stolen from it:

I always enjoy reading your posts, even if I disagree with some of them, which is rarely.

 

In this instance, your comments are fine with me. Too often it has been said that suspension bridges and trains don't mix. That might be true in the UK, probably down to the bad experience on the Stockton & Darlington, but your posts have shown that isn't always the case overseas.

 

Thank you, you've taught me something new.

[robmcg]

It's not currently on Hornby's website, so I would guess any 'new' ones would be 'new old stock'. 

 

Some in shops and on Ebay,  poor reviews so maybe be around for a while.

[BR60103]

I have one of the original GVS bridges. It's been used on most of my layouts, even an N gauge one, as my wife likes the look of it.

My latest layout is double track (a dogbone) so I had to buy a second one. The colours have changed! I needed to find some antique concrete paint, which was obsolete.

[BernardTPM]

The components have changed colours several times over the years. Even early on no less than three schemes shown in catalogues between 1964 and 1969 (I'm assuming the mid-grey decks shown in the 1963 issue were pre-production).

                   Piers        Decks   Suspension

1964-65  cream/grey  black      orange

1966-67          "           brown   light grey

1968-69          "           black          "

1970-72   light grey     black          "

It's tricky to tell the exact colour as some of the catalogue illustrations are coloured photos and some colour photos, so I'm not sure if the 1968-69 piers are the same as the 1970-72 piers or not. I know the hydraulic bufferstops were originally a creamy colour that changed to a concrete grey, probably around the time System 6 track appeared (1970).

[Coppercap]

On a completely different track, but one which may bear some relevance to the thread title,

 

question,  is the 1963 Triang-Hornby Caley Single the oldest locomotive you can still buy new, of UK models at least?  Quite scary to think that I was 12 yrs old when it was first produced, and even then I would have thought it a pretty poor model, Kitmaster did better!    But I recently bought one regardless.  It's a curious thing this enjoyment of an old model of a train from an age when trains 'raced' as in 1888 and 1895.

 

 

It's not currently on Hornby's website, so I would guess any 'new' ones would be 'new old stock'. 

 

 

Some in shops and on Ebay,  poor reviews so maybe be around for a while.

 

If you mean a 'new' 1963 Triang-Hornby single, that's not possible for a start as Triang-Hornby didn't exist in 1963. It's extremely unlikely that a new, unsold 1963 model is being offered for sale by it's original vendor (new old stock). Maybe there are unused ones out there, but  almost certainly secondhand. Anyway, the releases in recent years of the Caley Singles aren't anywhere near the same mechanically as the 1963 version - the loco's chassis has been completely re-engineered and re-motored.

[Il Grifone]

If you mean a 'new' 1963 Triang-Hornby single, that's not possible for a start as Triang-Hornby didn't exist in 1963. It's extremely unlikely that a new, unsold 1963 model is being offered for sale by it's original vendor (new old stock). Maybe there are unused ones out there, but  almost certainly secondhand. Anyway, the releases in recent years of the Caley Singles aren't anywhere near the same mechanically as the 1963 version - the loco's chassis has been completely re-engineered and re-motored.

 

The solid, reliable and virtually unstoppable  XT60 motor has been replaced with a modern motor and the finish is now paint rather than coloured plastic, but it is still basically the same model with all the faults of the original including wrong buffer height and oversize driving wheels (at a considerably higher price in real terms despite being made in China). 

 

The chassis came from the Dean Single of a year or two earler, which is also still available (or was until recently). There is also the B12 from the same era which I think holds the title, but this has been upgraded rather more than these two.

[GoingUnderground]

In the Hornby Dublo thread, Sagaguy (Ray) has posted a picture of a Class 501 EMU that he's created from HD parts. It looks very good.

 

It reminded me of a Triang "2 NOL" EMU repainted in Rail Blue that I saw at the Train Collectors Society's (TCS) Autumn Meeting back in 2010. I think it looks equally good. The pantographs that you can see in the background are on an EM2 even though at first glance it could almost look like one is on top of the 2NOL.

 

Being a North of the Thames kid, where trains meant the Underground, I always, childishly I'll admit, looked down on the Southern Region EMUs (so drab in their green compared to the Train Red and shiny new aluminium of my bit of "The Tube"), and never wanted the Triang EMU back in the 1960s. It had disappeared from the Triang catalogue by the mid-1960s, and I forgot about it as I was, and still am into OHLE.

 

Not getting the "2 NOL" was a terrible error that I corrected a few years ago. But I would like to get my hands on a careworn but still running "2 NOL" set and repaint it into Rail Blue, or possibly even go mad and put a second one into unprototypical suburban red, as Sagaguy has also done with a home-brewed HD Class 501 lookalike. Or even go totally OTT and fit one with a TTRCA replacement EM1 style pantograph. Now that would be totally different and utterly unprototypical!!!

Edited August 5, 2018 by GoingUnderground

[BernardTPM]

The HD EMU always was a Class 501 but with Southern Region numbers - 57' underframe and the LMR style jumpers on the ends. The only thing missing were the bars over the door windows. The cab on the old Triang EMU is a pretty fair shot (for 1957) at the 1925 Eastern Section type but the compartments are much too generous.

[GoingUnderground]

The HD EMU always was a Class 501 but with Southern Region numbers - 57' underframe and the LMR style jumpers on the ends. The only thing missing were the bars over the door windows. The cab on the old Triang EMU is a pretty fair shot (for 1957) at the 1925 Eastern Section type but the compartments are much too generous.

I suspect that the overgenerous compartments reduced the cost of the mould, and/or reduced the quantity of plastic required, Back in 1957 it was possible to get away with lower standards of realism, as long as it bore a passing resemblance to the prototype. Even better if it resembled more than one prototype.

[sagaguy]

Here is the finished artwork that i produced for my 501/2 EPB.Print out on A4 gloss photo paper.

 

                           

 

 

My Hornby 2 BIL on Dublo 3rail

 

 

                         

 

                 Ray.

[BernardTPM]

I suspect that the overgenerous compartments reduced the cost of the mould, and/or reduced the quantity of plastic required.

It may have also been to do with mould flow - more pillar and less window should mean the plastic flows more easily. The non-corridor 'suburban' coaches pre-date the EMU power cars  though providing the middle coach/coaches so the power cars needed to visually match the older models.

I did rebuld a scrap Triang EMU power car body into something closer to the real thing using a 1970s produced Farish non-corridor coach.

[Il Grifone]

It's just Tri-ang being Tri-ang....

 

The compartment size on the Tri-ang suburbans is really generous. It's a pity as they were quite good coaches otherwise (if you ignore the grooves that stand proud of the surface).

[GoingUnderground]

It's just Tri-ang being Tri-ang....

 

...and producing reasonably lifelike models that kids like me at the time could enjoy at reasonable prices. They probably got at least as many, if not more, kids lke me into the hobby as HD, simply because they were cheaper, even if that lower price came at the cost of reduced accuracy and trying to use expensive chassis for more than one model even if that resulted in compromises like the diesel shunter. And it had to be reliable and work when the track was assembled on the floor, and the coaches and wagons stay coupled on uneven floors. And cope with bring put away and taken out repeatedly. That is so different from a permanent fixed layout on a baseboard.

 

Some of their 1960s models still stand up well to much more expensive new models. One only has to think of their EM2, a daring choice of loco back then, even if it was needed to give a UK prototype for their catenary system.

 

Us kids grew up, and with our own income, not just pocket money, could afford to spend more on our hobby once our kids had left home and we'd paid off much of the mortgsge. We wanted more accurate models with more detailing for our money. You only have to look at the catalogues over the last 60 years to see how the RTR market has changed enormously. And trying to satisfy both the low cost trainset and high realism models for adults markets is something with which Triang/Rovex/Hornby Hobbies still struggle today.