Tri-ang Railways.

[Golden Fleece 30]

I am wondering, what was the first UK diesel outline train on the market?

 

Was it:

 

a) The Triang Met-Cam DMU

b) The Dublo Bo-Bo (Class 20)

c) The Triang 0-6-0 shunter (08-ish)

d) The Dublo 0-6-0 shunter (definitely an 08)

 

I think the DMU and the Bo-Bo were introduced in 1958, very shortly after the real thing!

The Tri-ang EMU I think was before those.

 

Garry

[Legend]

When I was young, if someone had given me trains like that, I would have been ecstatic. No doubt I would have gone through the scale period when we scorned them as we fussed over the lack of some minor details as many do today. These days though, similar train sets cost ten times as much, and compared with the older versions are virtual scale models as opposed to toys. Still some are not satisfied and modify, add to and repaint but no doubt that is what gives pleasure and adds to their particular model. The very fact that so many older trains have lasted so long is a testament to their design and manufacture and which is one reason why there are so many in collectors hands still.Brian.

Plus it was fun. Might have been an age thing , but in pursute of more accuracy have we actually lost the fun part? I have a Princess Elizabeth. Christmas present from 1971 , what fun I’ve had running it over the years

Edited April 10, 2018 by Legend

[Robin Brasher]

The Tri-ang electric 0-6-0 diesel shunter came out first in 1955 followed by a clockwork version in 1957 which is when I had my first Tri-ang train and my first Tri-ang catalogue.

[Robin Brasher]

Robin,  The late crests came out after the original Princess's so Tri-ang could not have introduced them instead off, at the initial time of them being sold.

 

Garry

I meant a late crest Hall as well as a late crest Princess.

[Il Grifone]

I am wondering, what was the first UK diesel outline train on the market?

 

Was it:

 

a) The Triang Met-Cam DMU

b) The Dublo Bo-Bo (Class 20)

c) The Triang 0-6-0 shunter (08-ish)

d) The Dublo 0-6-0 shunter (definitely an 08)

 

I think the DMU and the Bo-Bo were introduced in 1958, very shortly after the real thing!

 

I think the Kirdon 10000/1 predated all of the above. (1955?)

 

IIRC the order for these is c (1956?),  a (1957?), b (1958), & d (1961?)

 

Electrics go right back to the '20s at least with Hornby's (potentially lethal) Metropolitan Bo-Bo. Trix released an SR EMU and a (4 wheel) Met. Bo-Bo in the '30s and Ever-Ready LT set dates from the early '50s (1951?).

 

EDIT I missed the earlier post which dates the Tri-ang 08 approximation to 1955.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Il Grifone

[Legend]

The thing was Triang had a great range and depth to it with relatively few models . Could you believe that in the early 60s we had a model train company that gave you Stephensons Rocket through to the , then new, Blue Pullman with various Steam locos, Diesels and even electrics with a working overhead . Working steam with syncrosmoke , power to haul large trains with magnadhesion. A full range of coaches , wagons, lineside accessories , a turntable and other working accessories . That was the fun part, with an annual catalogue that was small in comparison to todays volumes , but were exciting , colourful. Whiles todays models are much more detailed, they are certainly not as reliable and robust and todays catalogues just read like a list of locos with their side on views. No excitement at all. Maybe it is an age thing , but there are no companies that give you the total system and excitement that Triang once did .

 

I'll bet a layout based on one of the great track plans of the 60s running authentic 60s Triang would be a great crowd puller at any exhibition.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Legend

[Golden Fleece 30]

I'll bet a layout based on one of the great track plans of the 60s running authentic 60s Triang would be a great crowd puller at any exhibition.

There are a handful of TT layouts built and shown from the TT catalogues by Eric Large, Alex Garfield, Roy Savage and I think I have seen photos of a 00 one on a website. My recently just finished TT layout is based on a 1958 design but not Tri-ang's track plan but using Tri-ang 1957 track.

 

Garry

Edited April 10, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[Golden Fleece 30]

Although not a diesel the Tri-ang EMU I mentioned is advertised in the March 1957 RM.

 

Garry

[andyman7]

The Rovex track had a serious design fault in that it would only connect one way round.

It's probably better to call it a severe design limitation. I've been lucky enough to find some of the converter tracks Tri-ang made to connect Rovex track to the modified Tri-ang track.

[RJS1977]

The thing was Triang had a great range and depth to it with relatively few models . Could you believe that in the early 60s we had a model train company that gave you Stephensons Rocket through to the , then new, Blue Pullman with various Steam locos, Diesels and even electrics with a working overhead . Working steam with syncrosmoke , power to haul large trains with magnadhesion. A full range of coaches , wagons, lineside accessories , a turntable and other working accessories . That was the fun part, with an annual catalogue that was small in comparison to todays volumes , but were exciting , colourful. Whiles todays models are much more detailed, they are certainly not as reliable and robust and todays catalogues just read like a list of locos with their side on views. No excitement at all. Maybe it is an age thing , but there are no companies that give you the total system and excitement that Triang once did .

 

I'll bet a layout based on one of the great track plans of the 60s running authentic 60s Triang would be a great crowd puller at any exhibition.

 

They (and the Hornby Dublo layouts) usually are - not least because they keep something moving at all times.

 

The best one I've seen had the fascia board around the front of the layout designed like the window of a giant Triang-Hornby box!

[Il Grifone]

I've checked with the Tri-ang 'bible' which confirmed the dates for the shunter and DMU as 1956 and 1958 respectively The EMU dates from 1957.

[Nearholmer]

As regards early commercial models of non-steam locos:

 

There were a lots of toys/models of electrics around the turn of the C19th to C20th, from both sides of the Atlantic, to the degree that, for a brief period electrically powered models of electric trains were probably more common than electrically powered models of steam locos, which were, of course, steam or clockwork. I think the first commercial model/toy electric loco was in the late 1880s, from Planck in Germany, but I’d need to check. The Hornby Met loco was actually a ‘Johnny come lately’.

 

Going back even further, things that were effectively table-top model electric locos were used to demonstrate the principles of the electric motor, before even the first (modestly) full-sized real electric loco was built c1842, and the principles of automatic control were demonstrated for the first time by two professors in London c1882, using a really excellent model electric tramway of about 3.5” gauge, on modular baseboards on trestles, all powered by a little gas engine and dynamo, which they took to exhibitions (any of that sound familiar?).

 

The first commercial model of an internal-combustion powered loco I find harder to pin down, I suspect it might have been a German toy armoured loco, looking rather like a tank, dating from WW1, or a US model of a gas-electric railcar in the 1920s, but again I’d need to check. In Britain, Bonds made models of a Hunslet 0-6-0DS from when the LMS first trialled them in the early 1930s, the chassis being very similar to their well known ‘Bonzone’ Peckett 0-6-0ST, but they seem pretty hard to come by (I’ve been trying to find one at an affordable price), and it was batch-produced, rather than mass-produced. Then there are the multiple different Fliegender Hamburger and various US streamliners, which lots of firms produced in 0 and S. And, we shouldn’t forget pre-WW2 H0(ish) models of electric locos and diesel railcars from Germany, or the Trix Meteor set which predated the train EMU by two years (I like it, even if it is rather imaginative!).

 

In short, commercial models or toys of non-steam trains were introduced pretty much contemporary with the real things.

 

Kevin

 

PS: and, Trix produced H0/00 model train sets based around the SR 4-COR to tie-in with the entry of the real thing to service in 1937, and a rather awful ersatz Met Electric loco, created by painting a German loco maroon.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Il Grifone]

I'd forgotten the Trix German diesel twin set*. It was marketed in the UK in the mid-fifties (1954 until the release of the Meteor?) along with the German 2-4-T (the one whose chassis was to power the LMS and LNER tanks advertised pre-war, but never made.  Today they are hard to find, probably because they were expensive and it didn't sell very well. This affects most Trix of course. Dublo is frequently accused of being expensive, but Trix was much more so.  For example Mk I/LMS coach 10/- ,15/-, 20/- (even more with lights) and Pacific £2/10/- (Princess - tender extra?), £4 (A4 or Duchess), £10 (A3**). Conversly the wagons were all much the same price.

*Really it's German and doesn't count!      I always wanted one. but Trix rollers wheels made it a non-starter for my Dublo track.

**Unchanged from her introduction when the prototype was still an A1.

[sandwich station]

Do we have a Trix thread? If not might be time to start one.

[sharkman]

R224 Tri-ang crimson and cream restaurant car was their first coach to have curtains and interior fittings. 'Finely detailed even down to the plates and napkins on their tables.' Hornby Dublo also introduced their crimson and cream restaurant car in the same year.

 

The original owner has fitted new wheels which is clever as it has open axle boxes.  It looks like he has fitted cups to support the pin point axles.

Aha I had one of those coaches along with a brake and composite in crimson and cream plus green Princes Elizabeth running on grey standard track. Powered by a really weighty transformer and a small black controller with a red button that kept popping up everytime you had a short circuit. How things have changed.

[Guest spet0114]

I remember looking into this a while ago.

 

From what I could find out, the first mass-produced, RTR, OO gauge model of a UK non-steam prototype designed to run on a 2-rail, DC system was indeed the Tri-ang 08.

 

The ambiguity comes from companies such as Kirdon, who advertised RTR versions of locos such as 10000 alongside their kits. Whether or not you consider this mass-produced is up for debate. They also advertised an 08, but the jury is out as to whether any were ever made.

[Nearholmer]

The thing about ‘firsts’, as the Guinness book of records has made a fortune from exploiting, is that it is possible to make anything a ‘first’ by narrowing the category definition far enough. Personally, I think it’s more interesting to understand the flow or progress of things, noting increments of change along the way.

[Titan]

The thing about ‘firsts’, as the Guinness book of records has made a fortune from exploiting, is that it is possible to make anything a ‘first’ by narrowing the category definition far enough. Personally, I think it’s more interesting to understand the flow or progress of things, noting increments of change along the way.

 

How many different models of a UK outline diesel locomotive or diesel train have their been to date? Not a particularly narrow category I would have thought!

[Nearholmer]

Lots.

[Il Grifone]

Lots.

 

As a steam fan - too many!

[Il Grifone]

I remember looking into this a while ago.

 

From what I could find out, the first mass-produced, RTR, OO gauge model of a UK non-steam prototype designed to run on a 2-rail, DC system was indeed the Tri-ang 08.

 

The ambiguity comes from companies such as Kirdon, who advertised RTR versions of locos such as 10000 alongside their kits. Whether or not you consider this mass-produced is up for debate. They also advertised an 08, but the jury is out as to whether any were ever made.

 

Limiting to mass produced 2 rail DC R-T-R and 00 gauge means Tri-ang. Of course, it also depends how close one intends 'model'. Tri-ang's 08 leaves a lot to be desired. One can see it's supposed to be an 08, but that's about it....

[Guest spet0114]

Limiting to mass produced 2 rail DC R-T-R and 00 gauge means Tri-ang.

In the diesel/electric realm, yes - it was a few years before Dublo joined the fray with D8017. As for steam outline - a bit less clear cut. When did the Grafar black 5 or Gaiety pannier hit the shops?

[rockershovel]

Since no one appears to have mentioned it, one Triang loco which figured largely in my childhood memories was the 4F 0-6-0. It long survived my late father’s layout to appear on my 00 ventures of the early 1970s. A solid, durable loco with good pulling power (although it was never as stylish as the Hornby Dublo 2-6-4T which came as a hand-me-down from a cousin, it DID have compatible couplings.... I still have the 2-6-4T although the 4F is long gone)

[rockershovel]

?  Sure you don't mean 5 shillings?

 

A pint of bitter in 1967 was around 1/10 'ish - unless it was Harp Lager which I remember being charged 3/6 a pint in 1967!

I remember petrol being 5/3d a gallon when I passed my bike test (1971). I had a James 250 twin at the time, with a Villiers engine, so I had to use the oil dispenser on the forecourt which cost an extra 6d if memory serves... remember to rock the bike to mix the oil!

[cctransuk]

Since no one appears to have mentioned it, one Triang loco which figured largely in my childhood memories was the 4F 0-6-0. It long survived my late father’s layout to appear on my 00 ventures of the early 1970s. A solid, durable loco with good pulling power (although it was never as stylish as the Hornby Dublo 2-6-4T which came as a hand-me-down from a cousin, it DID have compatible couplings.... I still have the 2-6-4T although the 4F is long gone)

 

I think that it was a 3F, not a 4F - the 4F came later from Airfix.

 

Regards,

John isherwood.