RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted February 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2018 There was something quaintly British about Dublo in my mind; expensive, mysterious, complicated, duplicated and doomed. A very nice way to put it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 I have still got my Wrenn Cardiff Castle and it seems very well engineered compared with my Hornby Kneller Hall. Despite this Kneller Hall has lasted 40 years. It runs well and will haul a 14 coach train on steel track with the benefit of magnadhesion. I did not like the moulded handrails and waxy blue green body. After several unsuccessful attempts to sell it for £35 at various toy fairs I am part exchanging it for £20 at Hattons for a Rood Ashton Hall. Kneller Hall is a development of Tri-ang's Albert Hall which came out in January 1967. The Railway Modeller described it as one of the most attractive locomotives to arrive from Margate. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Albert Hall was my first tender loco way back in 1970. Siince I wanted BR livery (to match my existing stock) I had to buy a secondhand one. While BR and GWR green are supposedly the same colour, the older Albert Hall was definitely a darker green than the replacement GWR version. Something else lost in the Great Disaster of 2013. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I wouldn't part with my Kneller Hall. Probably one of two or three RTR locomotives that have any "sentimental value" to me as it was one of the first that I got. It was certainly my first big engine as opposed to small tank locos. Does anyone know why they picked Kneller Hall as the name as it doesn't seem to have much historical interest apart from a military band? I understand Albert Hall and later using Hagley Hall as the preserved version. But they had dozens of names that fit in the nameplate area to choose from. Was it just a case of "it fits" or was it something more meaningful? Just wondering if anyone knows. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Albert Hall was my first tender loco way back in 1970. Siince I wanted BR livery (to match my existing stock) I had to buy a secondhand one. While BR and GWR green are supposedly the same colour, the older Albert Hall was definitely a darker green than the replacement GWR version. Something else lost in the Great Disaster of 2013. AH1970.jpg Gosh a whole load of nostalgia there, especially with the superquick buildings, including the church with the almost paper spire that was easily bent! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Kneller Hall is a development of Tri-ang's Albert Hall which came out in January 1967. The Railway Modeller described it as one of the most attractive locomotives to arrive from Margate. The Modeller was never critical of anything in their reviews back then... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Does anyone know why they picked Kneller Hall as the name as it doesn't seem to have much historical interest apart from a military band? I understand Albert Hall and later using Hagley Hall as the preserved version. But they had dozens of names that fit in the nameplate area to choose from. Was it just a case of "it fits" or was it something more meaningful? Just wondering if anyone knows. Jason If you went through all the names of the 'Halls', not very many of the real buildings they are named after are well known nationally (and I'm sure quite a few don't exist any longer). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 The Modeller was never critical of anything in their reviews back then... I think modellers in general were a lot less critical back then as well. People didn't get worried about locos having a wheelbase a couple of mm out, or not having enough rivets, or having features that weren't fitted to that particular loco (or vice versa) - having a Triang Hall was still a lot better than not having a Hall at all, and (apart from wheelbase) most inaccuracies could be improved with a couple of evenings' work if the purchaser really wasn't happy. Remember too that although crude by today's fine scale standards, that doesn't mean the Hall wasn't a step forwards on previous models. I've got an RM somewhere with the review of the Triang L1 - the first Triang loco to have see-through spoked wheels! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Gosh a whole load of nostalgia there, especially with the superquick buildings, including the church with the almost paper spire that was easily bent! Yes, in that picture there's buildings by Superquick, Airfix, Model Land and Tri-ang Railways (plus a couple that were printed kits on cardboard food packets in the late '60s), Triang-Hornby rolling stock, Hornby Dublo figures, mostly MINIX vehicles (plus a Budgie Rover 105), some metal gas lamp posts (Mastermodels?) and Dinky road signs. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Gosh a whole load of nostalgia there, especially with the superquick buildings, including the church with the almost paper spire that was easily bent! I know, but bending the spire due to clumsy fingers gave a good excuse to re-locate the imagined area of the layout to Chesterfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 The Modeller was never critical of anything in their reviews back then... I think modellers in general were a lot less critical back then as well. People didn't get worried about locos having a wheelbase a couple of mm out, or not having enough rivets, or having features that weren't fitted to that particular loco (or vice versa) - having a Triang Hall was still a lot better than not having a Hall at all, and (apart from wheelbase) most inaccuracies could be improved with a couple of evenings' work if the purchaser really wasn't happy. Remember too that although crude by today's fine scale standards, that doesn't mean the Hall wasn't a step forwards on previous models. I've got an RM somewhere with the review of the Triang L1 - the first Triang loco to have see-through spoked wheels! The Triang-Hornby Hall, when it came out was an inexpensive 4-6-0 loco that fundamentally represented the loco it was modelled on - in that regard it was still something to praise; the finescale modeller had absolutely no expectation of buying a model finished to their standards over the counter but the Hall, like many other Triang models, provided an eminently satisfactory basis from which to work. Time and technological and societal progress mean that of course today it does not meet modern expectations - but why would you expect it to? I have Albert Hall (BR), Albert Hall (GWR). Kneller Hall (GWR) and Hagley Hall (GWR in my Triang Hornby collection, and it's true that Kneller Hall has the least satisfactory finish - a result of the lightening effect of the matt lacquer used between 1977 and 1979 on the self coloured plastic. The GWR Albert Hall had a gloss lacquer which has a better colour balance but is ridiculously shiny. The best finishes are on the very first BR Albert Hall which has a dull sheen, and on the final Hagley Hall where Hornby finally began to fully paint-finish the models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 If you went through all the names of the 'Halls', not very many of the real buildings they are named after are well known nationally (and I'm sure quite a few don't exist any longer). Maybe they should have numbered it 7930 and called it That's Hall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I seem to recall reading that, contemporary to some of the later ones built, 'Henry Hall' was suggested as a joke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I seem to recall reading that, contemporary to some of the later ones built, 'Henry Hall' was suggested as a joke. Plus many other less polite options! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted March 8, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2018 Maybe they should have numbered it 7930 and called it That's Hall. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69664-a-nod-to-brent/page-1152&do=findComment&comment=3063542 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Tri-ang's previous L1, B12 and Dean Single* were all better models IMHO. The front end of the 'Hall' just looks wrong (again IMHO). I have a later Hornby 'Saint' to sort out. (Obviously she will be 'Saint David'! ) * The oversize wheels on the CR single spoil the model (yet again IMHO). Being 2mm too tall doesn't improve any of them (or is that just me?) There is a church spire somewhere that is reputed to be bent from leaning over to get a closer look on seeing a virgin bride.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilwell Park Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Tri-ang's previous L1, B12 and Dean Single* were all better models IMHO. The front end of the 'Hall' just looks wrong (again IMHO). I have a later Hornby 'Saint' to sort out. (Obviously she will be 'Saint David'! ) * The oversize wheels on the CR single spoil the model (yet again IMHO). Being 2mm too tall doesn't improve any of them (or is that just me?) There is a church spire somewhere that is reputed to be bent from leaning over to get a closer look on seeing a virgin bride.... It was caused by the devil lurking at the top of Chesterfield spire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) It was caused by the devil lurking at the top of Chesterfield spire. I was driven to look it up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_St_Mary_and_All_Saints,_Chesterfield (Boring film on TV.... It did start with a (anachronistic as usual in films) train, but went rapidly downhill from there!) I was not aware of the second part of the story.... Edited March 9, 2018 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 Some pictures showing the development of the Tri-ang Princess locomotive taken at the South Dorset Modellers meeting at Winterborne Kingston village hall on Friday 6 April. The black Princess Elizabeth was donated to us by a lady whose brother last played with it in the 1960s. It did not have a Walshaerts valve gear but it had the highest sales of any 00 gauge locomotive. The green Princess Victoria was made for a mail order company. When it came out the maroon Princess Royal was my favourite Tri-ang locomotive. It eventually had see through wheels, magnadhesion, steam and steam sound and could pull a long train on steel track. Later Hornby produced Princess Elizabeth in LMS crimson lake with nickel silver tyres. Here is a set of the preservd locomotive with some goods wagons from various periods. I am sorry that the pictures have come out in the opposite order to what I entered them. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 When I was young, if someone had given me trains like that, I would have been ecstatic. No doubt I would have gone through the scale period when we scorned them as we fussed over the lack of some minor details as many do today. These days though, similar train sets cost ten times as much, and compared with the older versions are virtual scale models as opposed to toys. Still some are not satisfied and modify, add to and repaint but no doubt that is what gives pleasure and adds to their particular model. The very fact that so many older trains have lasted so long is a testament to their design and manufacture and which is one reason why there are so many in collectors hands still. Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubes Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 When I was young, if someone had given me trains like that, I would have been ecstatic Brian. I was that young boy! I had a Triang Princess and two crimson & cream coaches and I was so made up. My modelling tastes and aspirations have moved on but deep down I suspect I'm still searching and perhaps ONLY searching for the feelings I had then for those simple toys.Kubes 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 I was thinking on those lines when I was running in my new Hornby 'Rood Ashton Hall'. It is about the same size as the green 'Princess Victoria' but is a far more realistic model. The weak point about the Hall is the tender which will derail on imperfect track when reversing whereas the Princess stays on the track. I wonder if a late crest Hall would have been a more versatile locomotive for Tri-ang than the Princess as it could be used on goods trains, local and express passenger trains and with coaches in maroon, brown and cream or green liveries. The prototype Hall also did not have complicated valve gear which was a noticeable omission on some Tri-ang Princess locomotives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Fleece 30 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Robin, The late crests came out after the original Princess's so Tri-ang could not have introduced them instead off, at the initial time of them being sold. Garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) Tri-ang didn't really have much choice. Lines Bros. bought Rovex and Trackmaster, inheriting a short Princess (which I reckon was copied from the pre-war Trix Twin model) and a clockwork N2 together with a ridiculously short coach and a pair of quite decent wagons. The Rovex track had a serious design fault in that it would only connect one way round. Edited April 9, 2018 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I am wondering, what was the first UK diesel outline train on the market? Was it: a) The Triang Met-Cam DMU b) The Dublo Bo-Bo (Class 20) c) The Triang 0-6-0 shunter (08-ish) d) The Dublo 0-6-0 shunter (definitely an 08) I think the DMU and the Bo-Bo were introduced in 1958, very shortly after the real thing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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