Tri-ang Railways.

[kevinlms]

5 hours ago, sandwich station said:

 

 

It was the Australian Victorian Railways B class that had 6 axles, whereas Triang only put 4.

The B Class was the key to 6 axle locomotives, prior to that 4 axle locomotives were the norm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Railways_B_class_(diesel)#Inception

[New Haven Neil]

12 hours ago, andyman7 said:

The R55 is based on the General Motors EMD F7 loco which was ubiquitous on North American railroads in the 50s and 60s. The real thing had six axles but Triang never let minor issues like that get in the way

 

The E7 (and E8 and 9) passenger unit version was a C0-Co, looks the same from the front!

 

[andyman7]

39 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said:

 

The E7 (and E8 and 9) passenger unit version was a C0-Co, looks the same from the front!

 

I knew I'd seen the shape on a six-axle configuration but I'm also glad that the Triang one isn't completely wrong too!

 

[BernardTPM]

Triang's R159 VR 'almost B' has a better rendition of the classic GM cab than the earlier R55 model. I think I recall seeing an R159 converted to single ended format somewhere.

[GoingUnderground]

On 30/04/2023 at 04:48, kevinlms said:

I don't think it's true to say that the TC range was primarily for the Canadian market. It was intended for the Commonwealth market, hence examples of various items for other markets, such as this guards van for Victorian Railways.

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=1498

 

Note that it was to 4mm scale (presumably so they could use the BR brake van chassis). Also that the vast majority of these models were produced in an orange livery - one never carried. Who knows why?

While many VR modellers used them when they came out (after repainting them brown), they looked rather ridiculous at the end of a rake of Lima GY wagons, or the HO kits that were starting to appear. They were way oversize.

To quote Richard Lines in an article for the Train Collectors Society "Canada was the main target for these early models." but went on to say "Triang were expanding their activities in other Commonwealth markets, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa in particular. Additional models were required which would be acceptable in all these markets."  This is clear if you at the bodyshell and livery of the 1950s R55 and the moulding lines introduced to make painting easier. It is very clearly based on the Canadian Pacific livery of the time. The Yard Switcher is based on an Alco loco, sorry I can't remember the model, that was also in service with Canadian Pacific at the time. Back to R55, as I said before, it is a hybrid, showing features of the EMD F7, the Alco FA and the Fairbanks Morse C Liner locos. The nose is very obviously wrong, the running number boards are in the wrong place, and the number 4008 comes from a Canadian Pacific Alco FA loco, not a CP F7 or F9.

 

The box and cement cars were very similar to those running in Canada at the time. Though it must be admitted that some of the cars were just UK models without buffers, such as the bogie well wagon/depressed centre car, the freightliner flats with containers bearing Canadian Pacific or CP Rail branding, and the very unusual UK bogie brick wagon in CP Rail livery. The snow plough and caboose were also clearly of Canadian origin.

 

The Series 2 TC passenger cars are also based on the cars running in Canada at the time, and the Series 2 observation car even has the moulding on the end door for the Canadian Pacific shield. Triang Hornby did sell Margate made  Series 2 TC passenger cars and the R55 and R155 diesels in both Canadian Pacific and CP Rail liveries in Canada in the late 1960s early 1970s.

 

You might find this link interesting https://tri-ang.weebly.com/.

 

But having made the models, Triang would have sold them in Australia and S Africa, and N. Zealand which was why they were made country non-specific by giving them the road name of Triang Railways with the TR logo.

 

The guards van that you've cited as an example of a non-Canadian prototype was from 1977 which places it very firmly in the Hornby Railways era, several years after the end of the Triang Railways/Triang Hornby era and to all intents and purposes the TC series was allowed to die out in the early 1970s, at least in the UK.

On 02/05/2023 at 23:37, andyman7 said:

The R55 is based on the General Motors EMD F7 loco which was ubiquitous on North American railroads in the 50s and 60s. The real thing had six axles but Triang never let minor issues like that get in the way

The EMD F7 had 4 axles, and the Triang TC motor bogie chassis is based on the one used on the F7. I have seen an F9 in real life at Banff hauling a train, the 9 was a further development of the F series, and I can assure you that it was a Bo-Bo as was the F7. The consist comprised 2 F9s and between them a cabless "B" unit loco, which was also a Bo-Bo.

[GoingUnderground]

20 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Triang's R159 VR 'almost B' has a better rendition of the classic GM cab than the earlier R55 model. I think I recall seeing an R159 converted to single ended format somewhere.

You will have, as I have done such a conversion. I posted the images on here some time ago, but they were amongst the many images lost when the RMWeb website had to be "restored".  Here it is again.

 

 

 

 

These photos were taken during the conversion, and the white areas show where the body has been modified the scratchbuilt parts added. The roof shows as white, but the only parts added are the "box" and the exhaust. The horns have been moved from above the cab. The body length is slightly longer than an R55 but shorter than the unmodified R159 due to the removal of the nose at one end. The new flat end has been based on the layout of the flat end on an R55, so if it looks familiar that is why. The top of the headlight faring has been filled so that it flows into the bonnet in the same was as it does on an F unit, but I haven't tried to replicate the way that the bonnet then flows into the windscreen surround.

[railroadbill]

 

 

This thread reminds me that I've got this one, bit battered but it does run. Despite knurled wheels and deep flanges, it made its way around my code 100 Peco track layout. For some reason it's wired to run in the opposite way to other locos.  One front fairing is missing but I believe 3-d printed ones are available.

 

 

My plan was to paint it up like this A70 class. (Seen in Melbourne in 2010).  OK, the A70 is a co-co but it would just have been a representation...  would be my only piece of pseudo-Australian stock, although I could run an RDC (not in the right livery and Ahern rather than Triang).

[andyman7]

If it's running the wrong way the likely explanation is not the wiring but that someone has had the motor in bits in the past and has reassembled it with the block magnet turned 180 degrees

[33C]

2 hours ago, railroadbill said:

 

 

This thread reminds me that I've got this one, bit battered but it does run. Despite knurled wheels and deep flanges, it made its way around my code 100 Peco track layout. For some reason it's wired to run in the opposite way to other locos.  One front fairing is missing but I believe 3-d printed ones are available.

 

 

My plan was to paint it up like this A70 class. (Seen in Melbourne in 2010).  OK, the A70 is a co-co but it would just have been a representation...  would be my only piece of pseudo-Australian stock, although I could run an RDC (not in the right livery and Ahern rather than Triang).

Triang-Hornby Class 37 chassis made to fit perhaps? As for the wheels, grindstone in a Dremel sorts them out! (Below)

Yes, 3D fairings are available as fitted to my OHL version. (Lower)

Edited May 9, 2023 by 33C
added photo.

[GoingUnderground]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but if the knurling is removed from the wheels, the loco doesn't haul as wel las it did before. I had one that was noticeably less able to pull a rake of coaches. When I checked it had smooth wheelssets, which I replaced with knurled sets, and it then hauled much better. Rovex introduced the knurled wheelsets after they introduced the dummy loco, R57, and the dummy B unit, R58, versions of the single ended loco R55, the dummy being R. Both of these use the same metal chassis, but are much heavier and have a noticeable rolling resistance greater than the TC coaches. It is possible to fit the powered chassis plus motor bogie in the dummy units to get round this problem. 

[33C]

One thing i try and do on all Tri-ang, split, wheel sets is to tap out the axles, de-rust/polish them and lube the axle when reassembling, followed by a thorough clean of the wheel treads. Also, some rims have a pronounced "pip", which is filed off. Time consuming i know, but the rolling resistance and tracking through points is much improved. I have not noticed a drop off in haulage performance but then i run six car trains max!

[railroadbill]

5 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but if the knurling is removed from the wheels, the loco doesn't haul as wel las it did before. I had one that was noticeably less able to pull a rake of coaches. When I checked it had smooth wheelssets, which I replaced with knurled sets, and it then hauled much better. Rovex introduced the knurled wheelsets after they introduced the dummy loco, R57, and the dummy B unit, R58, versions of the single ended loco R55, the dummy being R. Both of these use the same metal chassis, but are much heavier and have a noticeable rolling resistance greater than the TC coaches. It is possible to fit the powered chassis plus motor bogie in the dummy units to get round this problem. 

Found with my (cheap but tatty) one that it tends to spark at the wheel treads when running, has knurled wheels, may be pulling too high a current or perhaps the short wheelbase bogie is rocking from side to side while running.  Needs stripping down and lots of TLC I suspect.

 

On 04/05/2023 at 13:18, GoingUnderground said:

You might find this link interesting https://tri-ang.weebly.com/.

 

 

That's an interesting site, couple of good layout pics,  there's a freighter in a harbour scene that presumably is one of the  Triang clockwork ship/boats, that I hadn't seen before.

Edited May 9, 2023 by railroadbill

[Captain Slough]

9 hours ago, railroadbill said:

there's a freighter in a harbour scene that presumably is one of the  Triang clockwork ship/boats, that I hadn't seen before.

 

I've got the hull from that Triang freighter with a freelance body on top that I built, as it came with a smashed upper body

 

Not clockwork but electric - large centrally mounted motor, space for D-cell batteries and a propshaft drive to a brass propeller and a settable external rudder also in brass.  Motor was also knackered so I refitted it with a modern one and C-cells, but have almost never run it for fear ,of it sailing off over the horizon. I've also got a clockwork triang motor torpedo boat that I once had to wait for an hour for natural water motion to bring to the shore of the local boating lake

Edited May 10, 2023 by Captain Slough

[railroadbill]

 

From 'Tri-ang Railways in Canada and the USA' .   Site states it is ok to show content from their website as long as they are quoted as the reference source.

 

The freighter is in the middle. Lots of accessories but I'm not sure if they are all Triang.  Looks like the station waiting room (got that) is just in front of the freighter's bow. Also the power pylons (which you can still buy now, R.530).

 

 

From 'Tri-ang Railways in Canada and the USA' . 

 

Link is  https://tri-ang.weebly.com/.  as posted above by GoingUnderground.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by railroadbill
extra info

[railroadbill]

2 hours ago, Captain Slough said:

 

I've got the hull from that Triang freighter with a freelance body on top that I built, as it came with a smashed upper body

 

Not clockwork but electric - large centrally mounted motor, space for D-cell batteries and a propshaft drive to a brass propeller and a settable external rudder also in brass.  Motor was also knackered so I refitted it with a modern one and C-cells, but have almost never run it for fear ,of it sailing off over the horizon. I've also got a clockwork triang motor torpedo boat that I once had to wait for an hour for natural water motion to bring to the shore of the local boating lake

Thanks for the info about the freighter, Captain Slough.   I had a Triang trawler and a tug as a child, (sorry, junior modeller), both boats clockwork which shared the same hull design, long gone.  I also came across a Triang  lifeboat in a museum, also clockwork, which looked very good but haven't come across another one since.  I vaguely remember problems with clockwork boat range, at least with batteries you had a fair chance of your vessel making it to the other side of the pond! (Unless the prop  got covered with weed).  Every park seemed to have a model boating lake once, more difficult to  find now but I'm lucky to have one not too far away for my  occasional model boat sideline.

 

I guess triang, original Hornby, Sutcliffe etc. boats would be another potential collection.....

Edited May 10, 2023 by railroadbill

[Captain Slough]

the clockwork Triang MTB actually had a really decent range, 25 metres or so. The problem was just its tendency when carefully set to go in a broad arc to actually decide to go round and round in circles just out of reach

 

Initial tests in the Jellicoe-designed Water Gardens in Hemel Hempstead resulted in it going for a surprising distance downriver in the middle of the stream before being rescued and after that it was only ever used in actual model boating lakes

[railroadbill]

Spot on, brings the operational nightmare back!  👍

I had an MTB, not Triang, made from a clip together kit in rather flexible plastic, I think.  Had an electric motor that fitted inside right at the back so the motor shaft was the propellor shaft. They also did racing cars, think Woolworths sold them but don't know the make.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by railroadbill

[BernardTPM]

Possibly Scalecraft? I still have some bits of their 'Medway Queen'.

[Legend]

49 minutes ago, railroadbill said:

Spot on, brings the operational nightmare back!  👍

I had an MTB, not Triang, made from a clip together kit in rather flexible plastic, I think.  Had an electric motor that fitted inside right at the back so the motor shaft was the propellor shaft. They also did racing cars, think Woolworths sold them but don't know the make.

 

 

 Yeah as Bernard has just pointed out I think that was Scalecraft . I had a  motorised Centurion Tank

[railroadbill]

Great, thanks!  Looked up Scalecraft and they are indeed the kits I was thinking of. They did quite a range, there was a Cessna floatplane that I had, also a Lotus racing car, plus the MTB.  Their advantage was that they gave you a good chance of assembling a working model in a reasonable time, even if the performance wasn't great.

 

From what I can find, Scalecraft were based in Twickenham,  started in 1950s and were taken over by Airfix in late 1970s, some of their kits may have been issued by Airfix.

 

 

From box end illustration  of Lotus F1 car kit on Brighton Toy Museum site.

[St Enodoc]

13 hours ago, railroadbill said:

Great, thanks!  Looked up Scalecraft and they are indeed the kits I was thinking of. They did quite a range, there was a Cessna floatplane that I had, also a Lotus racing car, plus the MTB.  Their advantage was that they gave you a good chance of assembling a working model in a reasonable time, even if the performance wasn't great.

 

From what I can find, Scalecraft were based in Twickenham,  started in 1950s and were taken over by Airfix in late 1970s, some of their kits may have been issued by Airfix.

 

 

From box end illustration  of Lotus F1 car kit on Brighton Toy Museum site.

Not forgetting the Roadrailer kits.

[GoingUnderground]

14 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Not forgetting the Roadrailer kits.

The Lines Bros Group was into so many different toy categories that the must have covered most of the market at one time or another.

 

I had a Triang tricycle, and a Triang croquet set that came in a very nicely made wooden chest that aped the presentation of the much more expensive Jacques sets made for adult players, except that everything was reduced in size for children. There was the Frog range of plastic aircraft kits (they were the first kits that I ever built) and also of elastic powered planes that actually flew. They also made battery powered 1:24 scale models in acetate of road vehicles, under the Minic brand IIRC, which included a Vanwall racing car, a Austin Taxi and an MGA. Sadly, as they were using acetate at the time, mine have warped slightly. There were the 1:600 ships from Minic, not to mention the Minic Motorways slot cars, with their approximaltely 4mm scale commercial vehicles but somewhat overscale private cars.

 

I have seen comments from folks more knowledgeable than I that in the 1950s and early 1960s Lines Bros was the largest toy company in the world. But in those days, Airfix, Humbrol and Corgi were not part of the Lines Bros group but competitors, Frog and Modelland Vs Airfix, Corgi Vs Spot On and Minic, Pedigree's Sindy Vs Mattel's Barbi. They also became major players in the slot car world with the acquisition of Scalextric, and took on and beat Hornby Dublo and British Trix in the OO gauge model railway world with the acquisition of Rovex Scale Models in Richmond, and then built a factory just for them in Margate, which they still occupy today.....  In time, production of Scalextric and Minic Motorways and the Minic plastic models migrated to Margate.

 

To kids like me in the 1950s and '60s Triang was a very, very, well known name in the toy world possibly even better known than Lines Bros.

 

Nowadays the company that we know as Hornby to some extent emulates Lines Bros in its scope, but it is all down to the success of Triang Railways that there is a Hornby company today at all, as it is 59 years since Meccano, the company that Frank Hornby created went bust and was bought out by Lines Bros. Today's company might be Hornby in name, but, IMHO,  it is Lines Bros in nature.

 

Long may today's Hornby company survive. Simon Kohler's replacement will need a very deft and skilful hand to keep it in full lworking order. I do worry that its future bay be decided by global political forces outside of its control.

 

Boring reminiscences and rant over - I'll go get my coat.

[roythebus1]

The reason the TC series of locos go the other way is because they were manufactured that way. I remember it from way back when. As I said earlier, I had the diesel "switcher" which went the opposite way to my Jinty. when I worked in Patricks toys in Fulham in the mid 1960s all the TC locos went the opposite direction.

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

The Lines Bros Group was into so many different toy categories that the must have covered most of the market at one time or another.

 

I had a Triang tricycle, and a Triang croquet set that came in a very nicely made wooden chest that aped the presentation of the much more expensive Jacques sets made for adult players, except that everything was reduced in size for children. There was the Frog range of plastic aircraft kits (they were the first kits that I ever built) and also of elastic powered planes that actually flew. They also made battery powered 1:24 scale models in acetate of road vehicles, under the Minic brand IIRC, which included a Vanwall racing car, a Austin Taxi and an MGA. Sadly, as they were using acetate at the time, mine have warped slightly. There were the 1:600 ships from Minic, not to mention the Minic Motorways slot cars, with their approximaltely 4mm scale commercial vehicles but somewhat overscale private cars.

 

I have seen comments from folks more knowledgeable than I that in the 1950s and early 1960s Lines Bros was the largest toy company in the world. But in those days, Airfix, Humbrol and Corgi were not part of the Lines Bros group but competitors, Frog and Modelland Vs Airfix, Corgi Vs Spot On and Minic, Pedigree's Sindy Vs Mattel's Barbi. They also became major players in the slot car world with the acquisition of Scalextric, and took on and beat Hornby Dublo and British Trix in the OO gauge model railway world with the acquisition of Rovex Scale Models in Richmond, and then built a factory just for them in Margate, which they still occupy today.....  In time, production of Scalextric and Minic Motorways and the Minic plastic models migrated to Margate.

 

To kids like me in the 1950s and '60s Triang was a very, very, well known name in the toy world possibly even better known than Lines Bros.

 

Nowadays the company that we know as Hornby to some extent emulates Lines Bros in its scope, but it is all down to the success of Triang Railways that there is a Hornby company today at all, as it is 59 years since Meccano, the company that Frank Hornby created went bust and was bought out by Lines Bros. Today's company might be Hornby in name, but, IMHO,  it is Lines Bros in nature.

 

Long may today's Hornby company survive. Simon Kohler's replacement will need a very deft and skilful hand to keep it in full lworking order. I do worry that its future bay be decided by global political forces outside of its control.

 

Boring reminiscences and rant over - I'll go get my coat.

Not boring at all, Keith! Just to be pedantic, I think the Minic ships (and of course all the harbour accessories) were 1:1200 scale.

[Halvarras]

5 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

The Lines Bros Group was into so many different toy categories that the must have covered most of the market at one time or another.

 

I had a Triang tricycle, and a Triang croquet set that came in a very nicely made wooden chest that aped the presentation of the much more expensive Jacques sets made for adult players, except that everything was reduced in size for children. There was the Frog range of plastic aircraft kits (they were the first kits that I ever built) and also of elastic powered planes that actually flew. They also made battery powered 1:24 scale models in acetate of road vehicles, under the Minic brand IIRC, which included a Vanwall racing car, a Austin Taxi and an MGA. Sadly, as they were using acetate at the time, mine have warped slightly. There were the 1:600 ships from Minic, not to mention the Minic Motorways slot cars, with their approximaltely 4mm scale commercial vehicles but somewhat overscale private cars.

 

I have seen comments from folks more knowledgeable than I that in the 1950s and early 1960s Lines Bros was the largest toy company in the world. But in those days, Airfix, Humbrol and Corgi were not part of the Lines Bros group but competitors, Frog and Modelland Vs Airfix, Corgi Vs Spot On and Minic, Pedigree's Sindy Vs Mattel's Barbi. They also became major players in the slot car world with the acquisition of Scalextric, and took on and beat Hornby Dublo and British Trix in the OO gauge model railway world with the acquisition of Rovex Scale Models in Richmond, and then built a factory just for them in Margate, which they still occupy today.....  In time, production of Scalextric and Minic Motorways and the Minic plastic models migrated to Margate.

 

To kids like me in the 1950s and '60s Triang was a very, very, well known name in the toy world possibly even better known than Lines Bros.

 

Nowadays the company that we know as Hornby to some extent emulates Lines Bros in its scope, but it is all down to the success of Triang Railways that there is a Hornby company today at all, as it is 59 years since Meccano, the company that Frank Hornby created went bust and was bought out by Lines Bros. Today's company might be Hornby in name, but, IMHO,  it is Lines Bros in nature.

 

Long may today's Hornby company survive. Simon Kohler's replacement will need a very deft and skilful hand to keep it in full lworking order. I do worry that its future bay be decided by global political forces outside of its control.

 

Boring reminiscences and rant over - I'll go get my coat.

 

Leave your coat where it is Keith, many thanks for a quick walk down Memory Lane, some familiar names there I'd almost forgotten about! I once had a collection of Minic Ships, including if memory serves the liner Canberra, NS Savannah and HMS Devonshire (?) which had a helicopter on the back with tiny revolving 4-bladed rotor, a pair of tugs, various bits of quay and breakwater and the all-important plastic 'sea mat' to assemble it all on. Somewhere at home I still have a surviving price list dated April 1962 (I turned 9 that month!) with my purchases marked on it, it surfaces from time to time but I can never remember where it is. Most if not all of them were bought in a small shop called Barham's in Falmouth. I was very surprised to see them back on sale again in a model shop in Brixham about 10 years ago but wasn't tempted to get back into them - that ship  sailed long, long ago 🤭!