'New Colletts from Old'

[HowardGWR]

A quick update on my projects.  These by the way are for my forthcoming book, called 'Coarse Railway Modelling'.  Some of you may remember that series on amateur sports ('Coarse Rugby', Coarse Cricket', etc), that were very amusing.

 

On project 1 (correcting Railroad faults just using a file and spare plasticard), I have now completed the solebar changes.  Here is a photo comparison  between the railroad and my effort.  

 

 

 

A recap:  I sawed off the railroad step boards that are incorrectly positioned at the base of the solebar.  That's quite easy because you just let the saw follow the side of the solebar.  I then filed the side flush.  The Hornby tiny mouldings representing step board attachments are lost, but they are inadequate, anyway.  Look at the new Hornby one if you want to be impressed.  Those also are frankly not seen except with a magnifying glass.  I then took a strip of plasticard 1.5 mm wide that was 25 cm long, so long enough to make the continuous step board and spot-superglued an end at right angles to the solebar about 0.8 mm from the bottom.  I did that by eye and using a mark I made in the plastic, where it had to go,  I then stretched the strip to the other end very tautly and spot-glued that similarly.  The extra was then snipped off.  Although taut, it will of course sag, and in any case one could not leave it loose (!).  I took a very long thin strip of plasticard 0.75 mm wide and stuck that all along under the step board so that the latter rested on that.  I then applied superglue sparingly in dabs all along the underneath of the step board at the join, to ensure all remained secure and level.  Of course no one would ever notice the difference in width between the upper solebar and that under the step board.  It's too tiny a difference.  

Since I did this, I realise it might have been easier to reverse the process, sticking the underneath strip on first and the step board second.  I will leave you to decide whether this effort is worthwhile.  To me, it removes a more egregious visual error in the railroad coach, than even the incorrectly shaped roof.  These matters are by definition subjective.  For instance, at present, I do not intend to replace the commode handles, nor the side-end grab rails, with etched brass ones .  I shall slightly carve into the rear  of them and use a colour that gives the impression of a gap.  I have experimented with this and  - well, we will see.

 

I'll do a post on Project 2 (using railroad sides with Comet other bits) in a later posting.

Edited February 9, 2017 by HowardGWR

[lofty1966]

Well, you certainly know how to use a spray gun Lofty!  Wow!  Any tips would be appreciated when you have time, What will be your period (I mean, which decals and lining will you apply)?  What's an OCD, by the way?

 

OCD = obsessive compulsive disorder.

Livery wise the coaches will be 1930's style as in , not too difficult . My skill set does not extend to lining alá Coachman's exquisite stuff.

I really should treat myself to a bow pen at some point but I find I get the shakes when trying to do fiddly stuff.

Thank you for the praise about airbrushing but truth be told I am still learning the basics.

Bertiedog wrote some great tips about airbrushing on RM web recently (can't remember on which thread) but worth tracking that down.

Patience is a big part. Don't put try and put too much paint on in one coat. Lots of thin ones. If you overload , you lose detail and paint creeps under the masking tape (you can't see in my pic but there is several examples of paint creep but it should be covered by the lining decals)

Keeping your airbrush spotlessly clean is a must and don't try and reuse old paint without filtering it first as small lumps play havoc in the system.

Always stir your paint for at least a couple of minutes before adding to the airbrush cup is another big one

I cheat a fair bit with acrylic by using a fan heater to 'flash' dry paint so I can get another coat on quick.

Big downside is it doesn't take much to melt and warp styrene , ruined several of my my models that way !

Practice and trial and error !

[HowardGWR]

Just a follow-up on my 'stepboard' piece.  I am sure it may have occurred to you that another way of dealing with it is just to leave the present Railroad underframe alone and arrange for the underframe to sit a little higher within the body of the coach.  Then take a long strip of 0;75 plasticard and stick that under the step board to represent the extra solebar height.  That way, you get the same result, with about 6 to 6 1/2  scale inches above the step board and 2 1/2 to 3 scale inches below it.

 

However, one then would have to take account of other measurements in attaching the underframe to the coach body,, such as the headstock (buffer beam in modeller speak) and height of bogie fixing (see Taz's blog).  It depends how much surgery has been carried out on the Railroad underframe (chassis in modeller speak?).

 

Writing of modeller terminology, reminds me that, reading the latest GWS Echo newsletter, they were talking of 'a new set of handrail knobs' being made for 2999, so we don't have to be too shy about our terminology!  They'll be fitting plasticard cosmetic Holcroft footplate curves to her next! 

[Horsetan]

A quick update on my projects.  These by the way are for my forthcoming book, called 'Coarse Railway Modelling'.  Some of you remember that series on amateur sports ('Coarse Rugby', Coarse Cricket', etc), that were very amusing.....

 

OT, but some of these seem to be still in print or at least available.

 

The author, Michael Green, also covered The Art of Coarse Acting and I was amused to learn that the theatre he dedicated the book to is but a stone's throw from the office.....and next door to a house owned by two of my clients......

Edited February 9, 2017 by Horsetan

[Prometheus]

 

OT, but some of these seem to be still in print or at least available.

 

The author, Michael Green, also covered The Art of Coarse Acting and I was amused to learn that the theatre he dedicated the book to is but a stone's throw from the office.....and next door to a house owned by two of my clients......

 

The instructions on how to die on stage convincingly are particularly good: I'll never forget the photo of the chap who died behind a sofa, all you could see were his feet sticking out.

 

Tony

[HowardGWR]

Question to Prometheus (thinking right back to the posts at the start of the topic).  I confessed then, that I can't paint and don't know how to use a spray*, although I have a cheap spray gun equipment that I stare at occasionally.  So I will have to persevere with brush until it defeats me, unless of course it doesn't.  Thanks to Lofty1966 for tips so I may have a go.  I've bought Railmatch GWR cream and GWR Brown (both acrylic) and am experimenting.  The cream looks very good when applied.  So does their brown but it is a touch lighter than Hornby's which is rather dark chocolatey in my eyes.  I remembered one of your posts writing that you added some purple or something.  If one wanted to match the new Hornby models, for which Hornby has used the same dark colour as they used for the Railroads, what would you do with the Railmatch?  Does adding black or purple do it, or is the Railmatch spot on and Hornby just wrong?  

 

What are views on the available colours?  The Railmatch GWR brown looks nearer to what I remember, but what of course I remember are Mark 1s done up under the orders of Mr Hanks, the GM of BR WR, although I am sure Swindon knew what to do.  They may have used BR cream but there is not much difference in that one anyway, if any. 

 

* Naturally though, I can use a commercial spray gun version of a colour, ready made.  I didn't like the look of that Rover brown that is recommended elsewhere on RMWeb postings.. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by HowardGWR

[lofty1966]

I know these aren't Hornby Colletts but they are being done in tandam (If you prefer me to put them in a different thread say so) the Keyser E116's.

Awful kits.

Nothing plastic fits together ,everything is bent and the whitemetal bogies don't line up.

Why the designer didn't add in a floor , I will never know?

Other than that 'Great' !

They are now gloss varnished awaiting decals

Need to bodge some short stubby centre buffers (anyone got suggestions or tips ?)

Seats to be added , glazing to be aquired and then somehow get the rooves to fit.

Edited February 12, 2017 by lofty1966

[lofty1966]

Just noticed there is what looks like a piece of scrap brass stuck to the coach side in pic 3 , Doh !

[lofty1966]

Took a pic with the flash on....doesn't do any favours

[cctransuk]

Why the designer didn't add in a floor , I will never know?

 

The same reason as ever - to save money.

 

Even in the 1960s - when we'd never had it so good - we moaned about prices if things cost more than the two-bob Airfix kits !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Prometheus]

Question to Prometheus (thinking right back to the posts at the start of the topic).  I confessed then, that I can't paint and don't know how to use a spray*, although I have a cheap spray gun equipment that I stare at occasionally.  So I will have to persevere with brush until it defeats me, unless of course it doesn't.  Thanks to Lofty1966 for tips so I may have a go.  I've bought Railmatch GWR cream and GWR Brown (both acrylic) and am experimenting.  The cream looks very good when applied.  So does their brown but it is a touch lighter than Hornby's which is rather dark chocolatey in my eyes.  I remembered one of your posts writing that you added some purple or something.  If one wanted to match the new Hornby models, for which Hornby has used the same dark colour as they used for the Railroads, what would you do with the Railmatch?  Does adding black or purple do it, or is the Railmatch spot on and Hornby just wrong?  

 

What are views on the available colours?  The Railmatch GWR brown looks nearer to what I remember, but what of course I remember are Mark 1s done up under the orders of Mr Hanks, the GM of BR WR, although I am sure Swindon knew what to do.  They may have used BR cream but there is not much difference in that one anyway, if any. 

 

* Naturally though, I can use a commercial spray gun version of a colour, ready made.  I didn't like the look of that Rover brown that is recommended elsewhere on RMWeb postings.. 

 

I always find this a difficult one Howard. I've an airbrush also but no convenient place to use it: the garage isn't ideal and so it stays in its box. I use aerosols pretty exclusively for large jobs like coach sides and roofs and have struggled to find a Halfords' brown that is, to my eyes, acceptable. And therein lies the rub: it's all in the eyes of the beholder.

 

Rover Russet Brown, whatever is recommended elsewhere, just isn't 'right' for me. It's far too tan and I use it occasionally for the woodwork in coach interiors. I have tried other automotive browns also but, when varnished and weathered, I've found that too much purple comes to the fore. I've settled on Halfords' Peugeot Cafe Noir however as it is quite a nice dark chocolate which seems pretty neutral in terms of black and purple. It's good enough for me [at least] to stick with it.

 

With regard to your paints, I'd just experiment with both black and purple on some scrap first. You'll soon find a combination which works for you. I tend not to brush paint coach sides but that's simply to do with speed: I can lay down a couple of layers of aerosol in the time that it would take to brush on one. I do use railmatch GWR cream for touching up however and am quite happy with it. Of course, brush painting does have one clear advantage over spraying: you can do it when it's cold and damp without getting that awful bloom...

 

Possibly not much use in terms of the answer that you may have been looking for I'm afraid ! Once the weather has improved, I can finish spraying my K38 Ocean Mail coach. Build link here:

 

https://srmg.org.uk/a-letter-from-america/

 

Tony

Edited February 12, 2017 by Prometheus

[The Fatadder]

Completely agree on the Russett Btown, perfect for a wartime brown coach, but useless for chocolate & cream

 

The 116 looks fantastic

Edited February 12, 2017 by The Fatadder

[Coach bogie]

The K's 'B' set was one of the first attempts by a firm to work in plastic. Consider you could still buy Ratio wooden construction toplights when the B set came out (and I did). By 21st century standards it is very crude, by 1960's standards, it was the future.

 

The K's has one USP (unique selling point). No one else has made a kit/sides version of this diagram of B set. My first K's has gone into the recycling, but the bogies have all seen reuse under toplights. I have an unbuilt pair which I will build to a much more sturdy box, as lofty's (thanks for the inspiration), which is where I went wrong with the first as it continued to warp over the years.

 

Consider this - Pendon have a K's 'B' set on on Dartmoor!

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited February 13, 2017 by Coach bogie

[Miss Prism]

Need to bodge some short stubby centre buffers (anyone got suggestions or tips ?)

 

E116 did not have inner-end buffers, but had a centre coupling. Possibly like the E129 or E147, although note these were of different forms, the former having a sort of 'southern EMU style', the latter having a tommy-bar and safety chains:

http://www.gwr.org.uk/b-set-notes.html

 

The K's E116 does have faults, principally the quarterlights are too wide, and the roof is naff, but, hey, not bad for 21s 4d!

 

Dick Ganderton's E116 at Pendon is in 1924 livery (correct for the E116 when new), and the full livery treatment helps to disguise the window dimension inaccuracy. Here's a cruel screen-grab from a Pendon video:

 

[lofty1966]

Wish I had the requisite skills to paint them like that !

[cctransuk]

Wish I had the requisite skills to paint them like that !

 

It's been said ad infinitum, but - NO-ONE is born with the skills to do anything.

 

You do it the first time and make a b*lls of it - be it walking, speaking, writing, etc., etc., - the next time you do it a tiny bit better, and so on and so on.

 

If you assume from the outset that you'll never be any good at something, you never will.

 

...... but if you're not prepared to make the investment in time and initial disappointment .................. !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[kandc_au]

Could not agree more John.

 

Khris

[Miss Prism]

lofty - the E116 close-coupling arrangement was probably a tommy bar like the contemporary D87 and E124 sets (also built in 1924), as shown in: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1787.htm

 

(The D87 and E124s were bow-ended, so the tommy bars went through buffing plate boxes on the flat headstocks.)

 

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

It's been said ad infinitum, but - NO-ONE is born with the skills to do anything.

 

You do it the first time and make a b*lls of it - be it walking, speaking, writing, etc., etc., - the next time you do it a tiny bit better, and so on and so on.

 

If you assume from the outset that you'll never be any good at something, you never will.

 

...... but if you're not prepared to make the investment in time and initial disappointment .................. !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Well, up to a point, Lord Copper...

 

You are right that one should, if possible, have a go but it doesn't necessarily follow that just by practicing and trying harder one will always improve.

 

The flip side of skill is aptitude. Together they are two of the constituents of ability. No matter how hard one tries to learn a skill, if the aptitude is missing then the results will not appear.

 

For example - when I was younger I dreamed of scoring a century for England at Lord's. I practiced and practiced, and eventually became a regular member of my club 2nd XI, with occasional 1st XI appearances. I really tried to improve my skills, but there was a point at which my level of aptitude prevented any further improvement in my ability.

 

I never played for England and I never made a century, but that never stopped me from appreciating (and envying, to be honest) the abilities of those who did.

Edited February 13, 2017 by St Enodoc

[Horsetan]

 

.....You do it the first time and make a b*lls of it - be it walking, speaking, writing, etc., etc., - the next time you do it a tiny bit better, and so on and so on.

 

If you assume from the outset that you'll never be any good at something, you never will.

 

...... but if you're not prepared to make the investment in time and initial disappointment .....

 

.....it doesn't necessarily follow that just by practicing and trying harder one will always improve.

 

The flip side of skill is aptitude. Together they are two of the constituents of ability. No matter how hard one tries to learn a skill, if the aptitude is missing then the results will not appear.....

 

I think Samuel Beckett summarised it very neatly:

 

"Ever tried? Ever failed? Then try again. Fail again. Fail better."

[lofty1966]

It's been said ad infinitum, but - NO-ONE is born with the skills to do anything.

 

You do it the first time and make a b*lls of it - be it walking, speaking, writing, etc., etc., - the next time you do it a tiny bit better, and so on and so on.

 

If you assume from the outset that you'll never be any good at something, you never will.

 

...... but if you're not prepared to make the investment in time and initial disappointment .................. !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I'm not overly impressed with my painting skills on the "basic" liveries so far produced.

I am learning on each piece I make but one has to learn to crawl first, let alone walk. Running way out of my league yet !

Yes we learn as we go but telling little Johnny who can barely string a sentence together that he "can be whatever he wants" but we all know brain surgeon or rocket scientist is beyond him.

[HowardGWR]

I think this business about the painting and lining reminds me about a contribution I read when reading a thread about the differences between wood, white metal, brass, plastic, etc regarding achievable accuracy in models.  This person wrote that one does not see the underlying material on a model: one only sees the paintwork.

 

I don't despair about my inabilities as a modeller.  I have given up more than once over the 30 years and this current session is just to have a go at something I've not properly tried previously - coaches.  I recognise that if the painting is no good, then the model isn't any good either.

 

I don't worry about it though.  I just feel good that I am having a go.  I've just broken three drill bits on my Project 2, drilling the holes in the Comet aluminium roof.  That alone is making that project an expensive do - not what was the plan at all.  Plastic RTR is more forgiving!

 

I'm going to get that Halfords Peugeot Noir Tony (Prometheus).  Thanks for your reply. 

[cctransuk]

Well, up to a point, Lord Copper...

 

You are right that one should, if possible, have a go but it doesn't necessarily follow that just by practicing and trying harder one will always improve.

 

The flip side of skill is aptitude. Together they are two of the constituents of ability. No matter how hard one tries to learn a skill, if the aptitude is missing then the results will not appear.

 

For example - when I was younger I dreamed of scoring a century for England at Lord's. I practiced and practiced, and eventually became a regular member of my club 2nd XI, with occasional 1st XI appearances. I really tried to improve my skills, but there was a point at which my level of aptitude prevented any further improvement in my ability.

 

I never played for England and I never made a century, but that never stopped me from appreciating (and envying, to be honest) the abilities of those who did.

 

Lord Copper? Not sure that I understand that.

 

I'm not suggesting that anyone can become a Coachmann just through lots of practice.

 

However, I do suggest that anyone should be able to achieve a satisfactory standard of finish, provided that they are not seeking perfection.

 

Assuming that a bottomless exchequer is not available, plenty of practice of the skills required and, ultimately, acceptance of the limit of one's capabilities, will result in plenty of satisfaction from this hobby.

 

I know the standard of my loco building is not of Tony Wright's level, and that my painting does not come close to Coachmann's, but I am happy to accept those limitiations whilst always trying to improve my skills.

 

Wishing we could achieve the results of more experienced and skilled modellers can only lead to dissatisfaction and frustration.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[exet1095]

Lord Copper? Not sure that I understand that.

 

I'm not suggesting that anyone can become a Coachmann just through lots of practice.

 

However, I do suggest that anyone should be able to achieve a satisfactory standard of finish, provided that they are not seeking perfection.

 

Assuming that a bottomless exchequer is not available, plenty of practice of the skills required and, ultimately, acceptance of the limit of one's capabilities, will result in plenty of satisfaction from this hobby.

 

I know the standard of my loco building is not of Tony Wright's level, and that my painting does not come close to Coachmann's, but I am happy to accept those limitiations whilst always trying to improve my skills.

 

Wishing we could achieve the results of more experienced and skilled modellers can only lead to dissatisfaction and frustration.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Read 'Scoop' by Evelyn Waugh. It'll broaden your mind and maybe help you understand not just this quotation, but also the points of view of your fellow members of this forum.

[martinT]

Read 'Scoop' by Evelyn Waugh. It'll broaden your mind and maybe help you understand not just this quotation, but also the points of view of your fellow members of this forum.

There is a GW connection! In the opening chapter there is a Waugh-esque description of a train journey made by the hapless young nature-notes writer William Boot (a case of mistaken identity) to see newspaper magnate Lord Copper at his country home before before being sent off to cover the impending war in East Africa.

 

Auberon Waugh (Evelyn's son) has described this as 'an exact description of the journey from Taunton to Dulverton' (or words to that effect). Well, Auberon was no doubt given to similar hyperbole as was his father, but nevertheless there will be a grain of truth in it. Evelyn's 2nd wife Laura Herbert was a daughter of the aristocratic Herbert family whose country house was Pixton Park near Dulverton. Evelyn would have no doubt made the journey many times & in fact Evelyn & Laura were living at Pixton Park in November 1939 when Auberon was born there.

 

Martin

Edited February 14, 2017 by martinT